[Who gets the most bang for their recruiting buck?]

I don't dispute that, but more money spent doesn't necessarily mean better recruits.

Personally, I'd like to see us make more of an effort to be "cool". Recruits care a lot about image now and I don't think we are doing enough to appeal to them on that level.

UNT does not have money to waste, so they have to be careful about putting a lot of resources into a recruit. Once a recruit blows up into the 3 star range, they probably are looking big 12. UNT has to wait till some of the smoke clears before putting a lot into a recruit. Its actually good that a lot of the big 12 schools are getting commits earlier.

I agree with the cool effort. We think the uniform stuff is dumb, but most schools I have visited used thier uniforms for recruiting and they had different combinations on mannequins.

I know I keep beating this horse, but other than gmg, there is no recruiting hype for UNT. These guys google their names and look for articles and want to see what is being said about them. It really has changed a lot in the last 5 years with these smart phones and all. You go to UNTs rivals.com page, and its info from 2011 on there. It would be better to not have a page at all then to have.something lame and outdated.

in the past, small schools wanted their guys to fly under the radar, so the big schools wouldnt try to steal them. That menality has to change now, because everything is out in the open. When UNT offers someone, it needs to have the perception of a nice offer from a local school. It should be some hype involved, an article, or something. Some type of buzz.

[Who gets the most bang for their recruiting buck?]

It was mentioned in a recent thread that most of the recruitment and/or contact with recruits was done these days by social media (twitter,facebook etc). If that's the case then the cost of recruitment for every school should go down.

It also involves letters, coaches visits, and recruits visits to the school. The letters can add up. A recruit can easily get 100 letters from a big time school in one year. Not just a photo copy either. Nice handwritten on school stationary cardstock. Its a big deal to recruits. The big schools have the budget to send nice stuff to every prospect as soon as it is allowed thier junior year. The small schools have to pick and choose who they can send this out to. The visits are the same. some coaches fly in. some rent cars and drive. Some stay for a few days in hotels. it adds up. Went to the pearland vs manvel game last year. Maroon chopper flies in right before game starts. Sumlin and AnM, staff gets out and watches the first half. At halftime, they take off in front of the whole stadium, circle the stadium 3 times to show off, and go to the Laporte game before thier second half starts. Recruiting is a full time job. You have to have everthing covered. These kids are premadonnas.

[UNT Two Deep per Athlon Mag]

Historically these things can take right up until spring practice because there is summer school involved and they have to go through the NCAA clearinghouse etc...

Actually I have had a good vibe about this because typically you will hear in early summer (usually well before now) if a double signee decides to forgo the extra work and take the easier road to the juco...

Let's keep our fingers crossed ... he would make a NICE addition to the defense.

EDIT: I did see that he played in an all star game in Tyler in mid June:

http://www.myssnews.com/news-telegram/sports/22391-fca-game-saturday-features-ss-star.html

2013 recruits will start workouts and classes on Monday. Syd Moore is on campus. Loving is also.

[Less Mistakes Argument...]

From what I have seen and heard, DT has had his chance, and hasnt shown much. Im sorry, a decent qb will show something in 2 years. What you is what you get. He had a nice line and running game to keep defenses honest, and still played below average.

BB gives more with his running ability. What worries me I have been hearing about mistakes. This offense is not all that high tech. Its still a run first offense. It should not be that hard to grasp unless a lot of new things are added.

At minimum, BB should be splitting time and it should be a 2 headed qb system. What worries me is Idaho is going to be a win. If DTstarts and plays most if the game, he will start the following game at Ohio. Its already a tough game on the road, but what happens if BB first shot at playing is in mop up duty in an Ohio loss? Then the next game is a winnable one, at home against Ball State. BB would need to have some experience by then. Georgia is going to be a loss, but we better have the qb spot solidified by the time we play a winnable game at Tulane.

[Rice over UNT?]

I think playing at Apogee is the only reason I give us a fair shot in this one.

Me too. The fact that its a home game, on national TV, and the short week, I give UNT the edge. With 3 days to prepare/recover, home team has the advantage.

[North Texas Football Predictions]

Great find Harry. A 6-6 prediction. A few things about his predictions. He had us going 2-2 non conference. I assume that is a win against Ball state. He also is down on Middle Tenn, and have them as win. They must be losing a lot of players. If we can beat Ball State and Middle Tenn at home, then we should beat Rice also. Apparently he feels the same. He has us going 6-0 at home.

He's not giving us much hope on the road though. He expects Tulane and so miss, to beat us. That's 0-6 on the road. I'll take 6 wins any way we can get it though.

[Rice over UNT?]

So if we play like we played in 2 losses, we would be better? Our bar is pretty low.

Meant ULL...

[Rice over UNT?]

My bad. . . I hadn't heard a thing about that, and could have sworn he had another year of eligibility. They've still got more talent on campus than we have. . . . They have been stocking their rosters with talent as they have consistently been recruiting better than us since Coach Mac got here (not the case during most of the Dodge years).

My point wasn't that Rice is young now--my point was that they were young last year and return the vast majority of their talent. . . . So there is every reason to expect them to be a better team than they were last year.

Their closing stretch included those teams, but those weren't all the teams. They also whupped up on SMU and beat Air Force in their bowl game. Their one loss in that stretch was a close (28-24) loss against 11-3 Liberty Bowl Champions Tulsa. You give UNT 4 wins against that schedule--okay. Rice had 5 wins, plus a bowl win. Which team was better?

I think Rice is equal or slightly better than UNT. They went 6-6 against a super weak schedule. I feel UNT probably goes 6-6 against that same schedule. Cant take away the bowl win from Rice and I cant assume UNT can beat a decent team. They were sorry. I just figure they would fare better against super sorry teams that Rice played.

Since I feel Rice is only slightly better than UNT, I figure since UNT has the game at home, it should be even odds. I have this as a pickem game. 50/50.

Most UNT fans has this game as a sure loss. I would guess 80-70%. Come on now. Rice is an average team, but lets noy act like they are good enough to start having guaranteed wins on the road. If the game was at Rice or a neutral field, I would have Rice as the favorite.

And before people bring up Troy, yes, if UNT plays that way, they can go 0-12. But, If they play like they played against K State and ULL, they could go 7-5 also.

[Rice over UNT?]

Wow! Its a lot of defeat on here if fans dont think the team can win against teams that won 3 games or less. No wonder yall think Rice is that good.

UNT has been sorry. I get it. But if fans dont feel they cant beat average teams (Rice) at home and horrible teams like a 1-11 Kansas, 2-10 Tulane, then why complain when a recruit has no confidence. UNT is sorry, but not that sorry.

recruits need to stay away from the UNT forum until the team wins some games.

[Rice over UNT?]

Rice has most of their team returning. They are going to be a tough match-up. We have the advantage of playing the game at Apogee. If we have solid QB play and our D-line plays well, we could win this game.

I agree

[Rice over UNT?]

If we had their schedule with our team last year I could see us winning 3 games. They were just better than us plain and simple. They won a bowl game.

So you think UNT would only win 3 games against UTSA, So Miss, Tulane, UTEP, Memphis, and Kansas last season? Why even bother following the team this year then?

The only reason you think Rice is good is based on that bowl win against Air Force and that 6 win season against one of the weakest schedules in football. Its not just you though. Lots of people are believing that hype.

[Rice over UNT?]

As to why I expect Rice to be the 2nd-toughest team in C-USA West. . . . They were a very young team. In contrast to La Tech, who graduated most of their starters, Rice brings back almost everybody, especially their stars (e.g., McHargue and McGuffie). And they found their legs toward the end of last season. . . . if they would have been playing the way they did at the end of the season all season, they would have won 10 games. Now they bring that momentum into next season. You never know what will happen, but they should be very good.

Sam Mcguffie is in Oakland raiders camp. UNT is young also. Maybe the youngest team in CUSA. Rice came onat the end. Last 6 games included UTSA, So Miss, UTEP, and Tulane. Not hard to get momentumn with those teams. I give UNT 4 wins against that finish...UNT final 6 had 5 bowl teams. Much tougher schedule. Rice would have been 5-7 at best against UNTs schedule.

[Rice over UNT?]

It seems like most fans on here are pretty much chalking the Rice game up as a loss or a very tough game. I have also seen the preseason predictions that has Rice as a surprise team and all that. Really?

I know Rice had a nice season, but why is it assumed they will do the same or even improve?

Maybe I have paid more attention to Rice and people just assume they are good cause they won a bowl game. They are decent, but not as impressive as people think in my opinion.

If you compare UNT to Rice, I think the only difference in record is schedule. Rice is very average. 7 of thier opponents finished under .500 and that is not including UTSA. 4 teams were bowl eligible.

UNT had 5 opponents under .500 & played 7 bowl eligible teams. A much tougher schedule. UNT could have went 6-6, against that same schedule.

With average qb play against Troy and WKent, UNT is 6-6.

I am going to assume UNT gets at least average Qb play this year and that is not a lot to ask for, even if it is DT. Just average. If this is the case, I just dont set Rice being s lot better than UNT. Especially good enough to just chalk up a win at apogee for Rice.

[When do we start winning the bigger recruiting battles?]

Rivals, scout, 247, and espn provide good coverage of recruiting, but unless you are a top prospect, they are not going to be up to date.

They still rely on recruits and writers to get info for them. Kidsy had offers. (actual, and not phantom just because rivals did not list them) and its obvious that offers goes into the star ratings for rivals. Kidsy went on official (paid by the school) visits to big 10 schools and he was offered. If rivals does not have the schools right, how can they get the star rating right?

Im not knocking rivals or any other site because I look at them when looking at talent too. I just know that if you come on late your senior season and there is no hype your junior year, these site wont know much about you. If you dont attend camps, they wont know much. The last two Weeks there is a lot of movement and last minute offers, and they cant keep up with all of it at the end. The sites are only good for early info.

I can only speak for the ones I know in the greater Houston area. That is kidsy, Davis, and walker. I have seen them play and kept up with their recruiting. They had better schools in better conferences, with better records contacting them right until the very end. UNT won those battles for them. They were 1st team all district 23-5A selections, in a district full of d1 talent, and made top teams in Vype, Txhighschool football, and chronicle.

[Lock the Gate review]

I would expand on twitter and just include all social media. Facebook is just as important.

UNT also needs a rep to update the scout and rivals pages. recruits google thier names and they look for articles. Schools will have beat writers contacting recruits and asking for updates about the recruiting process.

Twitter and Facebook is used a lot and that is a big area that UNT has to improve on. I doubt if Mac is telling his staff they cannot use this. I think it is just lack of experience and not keeping up with the times. The head coach is not going to be doing that kind of contact. It will be the position coaches, GAs, scout reps, 247 reps, rivals reps, etc that are hitting the recruits up on social media. Before the games, telling them good luck. After the game to see how it went. There should be some contact at least twice per week. Even during no contact periods, social media is being used. Fans also create lots if hype for the team on social media. It shows you have a great fan base.

Theres other things that can be improved on too. Uniforms are horrible. Especially the helmet. Improve the helmet the rest may be acceptable.

Gameday experience on visits need improvement.

With all this being said, in order to compete with TCU, SMU, Tech, UH, Baylor, etc for three star recruits, nothing will help more thsn winning 6 or more games.

I feel improving social media,uniforms, etc will only make a difference against the smaller schools like UTSA, TX state, La Tech, Rice etc.

[When do we start winning the bigger recruiting battles?]

And this is why we should send out electronic survey forms,( like the LONG OVERDUE survey forms that were sent out to MGC members) to everyone that we actively recruited. And that includes their parents and coaches. The survey forms should be worded differently for each person (recruits, parents, coaches), and it should include a section called "did you know this about North Texas?" that has links to all the things new and improved at North Texas......especially the facilities.

Until UNT played UH, I did not know UNT was D1. I keep up with college football, but not being on TV and playing in the Sunbelt, you just dont hear much about unt in Houston. Its probably the same in other areas that are not close to Dallas. TV and conference upgrade will be huge in getting exposure.

Recruiting has changed a lot over the years. Comparing other years is pointless. SOcial media is used extensively by most major programs. They are contacting these recruits everyday and a lot earlier in the process. They send letters once or twice perper week, and that adds up. Unt will also need to improve in these areas.

[Coleman Key QB 6-4 ¾, 215, 4.8 Owasso (Oklahoma)]

Committed to Colorado state

[When do we start winning the bigger recruiting battles?]

I have been to camps, junior days, recruiting visits, spring games etc over the last 4 from working with local high school kids. Coach Mac is pretty good as far as speaking and selling. He needs the wins now.

If they do not get wins this year, it is very important that he gets the young players in. why? Because playing time is his biggest selling point to a top recruit. Thats about it. The 2013 class needs to have a few guys get some playing time if the season gets bad, so you can sell it to thr 2014 class.

UNT hasnt had much to work with until now. It had started from scratch over the last 3 years. Its pretty much like a fcs team that just moved up. Maybe worse. TV and conference has been announced, but it has not factored in yet and wont be used until the season starts. It may have an effect at the end of the 2014 class

[Nick Orr]

Looks like the bowl win gave rice a bump.

Im interested to see how TV impacts recruiting. It has to make some difference.

[Nick Orr]

If winning is the last thing holding us back then why would us having a good season and making a bowl game matter in our recruiting efforts to flip Nick Orr?

I meant "last thing" as in final piece that is needed. Everything else is in place.

Antione, woods, and dean were stolen at the very end for the 2013 class. A chance to play early on a winning team would make a huge difference at the end of this year.

[Nick Orr]

I think winning is the last thing holding unt back. The battle for Orr wont be over until the end of the season. He will still be at the games watching his brother play. UNT has a good season and go bowling and he can be flipped.

[Old Dominion]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitments/2014/olddominion-649

They're not doing too poorly.

I'll never understand why our fans don't just admit that we aren't getting the athletes we thought we would (or, many of us thought we would) under McCarney.

It is impressive that Old Dominion, which isn't even playing FBS ball yet, is able to land a three-star recruit. Their coach has never had a losing record, led them to the FCS playoffs the past two years. This isn't a school that will come into the C-USun Belt laying down.

We pooh-poohed UTSA, and they are equal to us. Larry Coker knows what he is doing and always has. I suspect that if the Roadrunners beat us this year, some will still find ways to pooh-pooh UTSA and Coker.

Franchione down at Texas State has a couple of recuits. He built TCU on no-name guys. Can McCarney do the same here?

I don't know what to think about McCarney anymore. I love his experience. But, a 2013 with 3 to 4 wins...that would have me really worried.

Sorry, but I've got to be honest. I was honest about what I thought Todd Dodge's shortcomings were; I've got to be honest about McCarney as well. I have been disappointed with the way the recruiting has gone. I really thought it would have gone up a notch by now.

We've all said it thousands of time already, but...a whole lot is riding on this season's outcome. If we cannot win more than four this year, do we go ahead and bring someone else in for a try?

[2013 UNT FB Season W/L Predictions]

Im new to mean green football, so im not coming in with past disappointments. I did follow last season and I predict 7-5. im not sure that means UNT has improved that much. I think they go 7-5 if they play a little bit better than last year, and I think they are capable.

The schedule worked out good with so miss and Tulane on the road. That gives us a good shot a road wins. I know there is doom and gloom with Unt fans, but im sorry, 0-12 is a horrible team. If people can assume they will be better, than I also have to assume Unt will be too. Tulanes 2-10 record in cusa is pretty bad too.

And rice at home should at least be a pickem. Rice had a nice season and picked it up at the end, but 3 wins came from 1-11 Kansas, 2-10 Tulane, and utsa...im not ready to say they can go and beat a decent team on the road. They lost to a bad Memphis team.

this years schedule is not a tough as last years.

[2013 UNT FB Season W/L Predictions]

I can also see Southern Miss being a close and exciting win. Hopefully I'm not being too optimistic though. I want to believe we'll see North Texas in a bowl game this year.

I completely agree with the predictions of all the Texas teams we will be facing, if we lose to anyone in Texas, except for Rice, I might honestly break down and cry...

[What true freshman do you see making the biggest impact in 2013?]

None is a little extreme. You hope at least a few guys you sign are capable of contributing from day 1.

You need a few of these guys to play at least a 2nd string role to sell playing time to the 2014 class. You don't turn down teams in top conferences to come to UNT to get redshirted and not play. As of right now UNTs biggest selling point is playing time and location.

The athletic facilities are a selling point vs the smaller schools.

A winning season and a bowl game, along with success from a few 2013 players would get a lot of attention and would make a huge impact with the 2014 class.