SMU2006
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GoMeanGreen.com
Posts posted by SMU2006
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1 minute ago, DeepGreen said:
How long will it take smu to accept an MWC invite?
I've heard there are talks w/ Memphis but I honestly don't see the advantage to this for SMU. Why pay the insane AAC exit fees to join the MWC where you'll be taking the TV revenue table scraps left over by Boise? Travel and logistical nightmares too.
The best play for SMU is to stay in the AAC and hope for Big 12 expansion round two. If that doesn't materialize then going independent would be a last resort but the Gerald Ford's and Clark Hunt's of the world would finance that endeavor until the end of time if it was what was best for SMU.
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UNT is a solid addition to the AAC. I'm unsure about the decision by Aresco to expand the conference to 14 but I'm sure he's been told by ESPN this is the combination of schools that make the most sense. From a revenue distribution perspective this is going to be interesting.
I'm thinking 1-1.5m per school range.
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22 minutes ago, Jonnyeagle said:
SMU wants the Big 12 and so they aren’t interested in moving west and paying all the associated exit fees and whatnot.
SMU knows that the Big 12 is likely a pipe dream. Even in its weakened state.
The next two on deck are Boise and Memphis. If more dominoes fall then perhaps SMU enters the equation but its unlikely IMO.
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4 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:
Funny thing is, the MWC, after standing firm, may now try to raid the AAC. Wouldn't be surprised at all if they make a call to SMU.
That call has already been made to both SMU and Memphis. Exit fees associated with leaving the AAC (as well as the Boise sweetheart TV deal) make it a no-go.
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Just now, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:
Yeah UNT is gonna get screwed. Just great because the football team looks like a damn high school
Such a shame, and I mean wouldn’t you blame Seth for this disastrous collapse? I do
There is no way we get into the AAC, and now we’ll get left with the scraps of CUSA. UAB, FAU, UTSA, and someone else probably gets into the AAC, Marshall and USM join the SBC, and that leaves 8 schools left.
No need to go all doomsday. This stuff is far from over.
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Just now, Wag Tag said:
It would be sweet if they finally decided to expand into Texas. Eventually Boise will be gone and maybe SDSU.
Definitely a major setback for the AAC. You have to wonder now what SMU/Memphis will do. I still think its absurd to pay AAC exit fees to go play a bunch of games in nothing media markets 1,500 miles from Dallas but at the end of the day TV calls the shots.
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22 hours ago, SilverEagle said:
who is USU?
CSU and AFA staying put. Definitely a setback for the AAC.
Might be time for a scheduling alliance. That's been thrown out there. Also have the MWC play the AAC champion for access to the NY6 bowl.
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Army, FAU, and Marshall are all higher on the AAC pecking order than Charlotte.
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22 minutes ago, PlummMeanGreen said:
You can only wish that (while SMU continues to be shunned by Big 12 Light). • Someone needs to tell you the B12 boys don’t believe SMU brings anything to their party (except a legacy of probations).
Of course, we all knew you’d respond to anything that might put UNT in a good light. It’s just what you rich, spoiled brat 💩’rds do.Still.....Why isn’t SMU being talked up more for Big 12 Light? What do you & Gerald T. have to say about that? We’d all like to know.
BTW, which Texas HS assistant coach will your Chief Recruitinator have come up to UNT next?
Go back to your SMU forum with the other half dozen who are on it.
🐎...🦅 ••• We’re gettin’ closer so y’all just keep on looking over your shoulders as it seems you’re still doing now.😆
❇️
You mad bro?
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Its not going to stop at just CSU and AFA. There are going to be more defections from the MWC.
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2 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:
Mountain West pays each school around 4 million due to media rights.
CUSA pays around 400k
is this even a question?
That number is about to get gutted when AFA and CSU leave for the AAC.
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4 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:
MWC going to get Cherry picked? Boise to Big 12? They better start reaching out and adding.
San Diego State and Fresno also mulling it over.
This is a move to destroy the MWC.
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It was a great early afternoon at Amon Carter.
TCU is a confusing team. They've got an elite back in Evans, a veteran QB in Duggan, and some real playmakers on defense that is almost always fundamentally sound with Gary Patterson still running the show. I couldn't believe how easily SMU was able to run the ball on the Frogs. 15 runs of 10 yards or more and two 100 yard backs. It was surreal.
As an SMU fan that has watched TCU have the upper hand in this series for the last 20 plus years this was the first time where it felt like SMU had significantly better talent. Not a fluke. SMU led the entire game and actually committed 3 turnovers to only one for the Frogs.
The better team won.
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1 minute ago, Monkeypox said:
ESPN gains an estimated 50% of the media value of the Big 12 with the addition of UT and OU to the SEC. Everything else is dependent on how that moves forward. AAC departures result in an estimated 20% media value loss in football and almost 50% value loss in basketball.
Correct thus the motivation to sweeten the pot, but they aren't going to let the AAC die on the vine. $20m per school goes a long way to mending the fences and (hopefully) adding some quality programs. We'll see how it shakes out. But the notion of any AAC school leaving to join the MWC to play gimp to Boise (while paying exit fees) is beyond stupid.
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3 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:
SMU sucked then and they suck now.
We get better every day.
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2 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:
Agree.
Anywhere we go (if we move at all) will be a gamble. Schools will say today they are staying put, then tomorrow they could change their mind. It’s all unstable. It almost reminds me of how the transfer portal is functioning. It’s just not my favorite time to be following NCAA sports with what’s coming down from Indianapolis & the NCAA rules committee.
🦅
The transfer portal is the greatest equalizer for G5 programs. Also, finally the student-athlete has the leverage where for so long these kids get buried on the depth chart somewhere and feel like they don't want to lose a year of eligibility or sit out to play.
Let the kids go where they want to go. If programs are run in a player-friendly environment you will be the beneficiary of the portal and not a victim of it.
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2 minutes ago, Monkeypox said:
Yes, I was previously unaware of the composition clauses in ESPN's media deals. With the AAC, named schools are Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, UCF, and USF (what?). It's not a full renegotiation trigger, but ESPN can go back to the table and adjust the numbers/payouts.
The only motivation for doing this would be to expedite the departure of UT and OU to the SEC. ESPN has no interest in devaluing their current asset (AAC) to help out the Big 12 (FOX).
The buyouts are going to be north of $20m per school if they want to be playing Big 12 football in 2023.
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6 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:
When SMU gets caught buying players (again) the punishment publicity will cause them to (ultimately) go into another losing cycle (like the 10 consecutive losing years before they got invited to CUSA in 2004)? Yeah, that’s right—they were .500 & less in wins 10 years in a row & still got a CUSA invite in 2004 to begin conference play in 2005. So much for W/L records as a criteria to get in a conference, eh?
SMU & their condescending arrogance will always be their self-induced problem because after all—THEY’VE ONLY RECENTLY BEEN TURNED DOWN BY THE BIG 12—AGAIN. (That’s 2 times they’ve been turned down, but there are reasons for that which Big 12 powers just won’t discuss in public media outlets).🦅
If you think SMU in the 80's was the most egregious cheater in the SWC I can only laugh. They may not have even been the worst in Dallas-Fort Worth. TCU had a pay for play scheme running for years even after the Wacker days. Very well known. You seem to think SMU is the same institution that it was in 1985. Is UNT the same as in those days? I don't think so. Its a much better place with a far brighter future. The same can be said for SMU.
There's a reason the SWC was called the OPEC Conference in the 80's. That's where the price was set. SMU's demise came from being a non-blue blood that could easily nuked with minimal fallout.
And it sure seems to have curtailed cheating in college athletics right?
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Just now, Monkeypox said:
So, just to clarify:
What is contradictory? There is really only one metric that matters. WINNING. Whether you are a small, private school like TCU or a commuter school with 60,000 students like UCF. You have to win. Are there are other factors worthy of consideration? Yes, but to a far lesser degree.
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6 hours ago, UNTLifer said:
Guess he paid off with the recruitment and signing of Siggers.
This is a tired and lazy argument.
Siggers has said a lot of complimentary things about his time at UNT. He was sort of lost in the shuffle and was battling injuries. He wanted a fresh start somewhere else. The portal giveth and the portal taketh away. Insinuating that Samples is a modern day Sherwood Blount is petty.
He's probably going to be the next HC at SMU.
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7 minutes ago, Monkeypox said:
Contradictory statements here. SMU will never appeal to a wide audience, even if you won 10 games a year til 2030. You aren't going to have local support because not that many people go there and not that many locals identify with your school or care. There's no growth for SMU, because the wide audience (t-shirt fans) in DFW already celebrate and/or identify with UT, OU, Big12, SEC, Big10 schools, etc.
So this is where enrollment matters. UNT has students and former students who can fill up the stadium if we win. Same with UTSA. Same with a handful of other schools. We don't have to pull in a bunch of casuals to make it work. We just have to win at football. Conferences know that. Otherwise, neither UTSA nor UNT would be mentioned AT ALL in conference realignment discussions. We never would have moved "up" to CUSA.
TCU got added 10 years ago, and the world has changed with regards to media. BUT TCU also had tremendous support historically from Tarrant, Parker, and Johnson county. TCU was getting 40,000 people to their games when they were winning in the MWC, they were getting 30,000 people when they were in CUSA, and they were getting high 20s in the WAC in the late 90s. I used to work their football games in my teen years, and you'd see people from Weatherford and Cleburne at their games, even if they didn't go there or have kids there. They had support, and winning INCREASED that support, and that's what got them into the Big12. They got in because of the TV market, recruiting area they were in, and because they'd shown that they could get people to games DESPITE their enrollment, conference, and opponents. Very few programs have that built in, and it's partly just because of how the western counties have aligned and identified with TCU for at least the last 35 years.
You don't have to have mass appeal and you certainly don't have to have 50,000 undergraduates. You have to win. SMU had one 10 win season and in that season played an ABC prime time game at Memphis (College GameDay) and got 28,100 for Tulsa, 23,200 for Temple, and 29,500 for ECU. That's one year. If you honestly think that if 9 plus win seasons became the norm at SMU that it wouldn't translate into consistent crowds north of 27k regardless of opponent then you're divorced from reality. SMU (and Dallas generally) loves a winner. We had 29K for the UNT game this year. Its trending in the right direction.
There are also a myriad of other factors that come into play like academics, endowment, political influence, athletic department spending, etc. way before undergraduate enrollment enters the realignment equation.
At the end of the day all of this is window dressing b/c WINNING, and winning at the national level consistently, is what will get programs noticed by perceived better conferences.
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26 minutes ago, Hookset said:
Michigan/Ohio State are conference games.
SMU had won many more than 6 (TCU leads the series 43-39-7) games against TCU. Much more evenly matched programs.Series is close but SMU has been on the losing end a ton post-Death Penalty. I think its like 4 wins over TCU since 2000.
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2 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:
Agree.
UCF at 60,000 enrollment was certainly not a negative for their getting in Big 12 Light. I also don’t think I said that enrollment was a clincher of a factor to get into any FBS conference.
At any rate.......being from greater Houston, I religiously followed the UH Coogs & the SWC since 1959. I got to see UH almost in its football infancy go from having bowl worthy teams (but realistically, w/o the Bluebonnet there would have been no bowls for UH) to a school that was invited to the SWC & then all the glories of Coog basketball, but I just never understood how a school like SMU that used to be in the Southwest Conference would not have built a better fan base with the Horns, Aggies, Hogs, RedRaiders, etc, all coming to Dallas every other year. What would North Texas have done with such a home scheduling luxury? Not sure, but I think I know.
Below link is a another assessment (among many) as to what happened to cause the demise of the SWC.
https://texasalmanac.com/topics/sports/look-back-southwest-conference
🦅
Enrollment size is irrelevant in realignment. The primary objective for conferences is providing compelling, entertaining content that appeals to the widest possible audience. If you have 50,000 students and go 4-8 that's not gonna cut it. I will concede that "markets" were a major piece of the puzzle in previous realignments, but there is one metric and one metric only that matters. Winning and winning big in football.
SMU, while being a program on the rise, hasn't accomplished anything close to what the "promoted" AAC schools have done. A few weeks in the Top 25? Great. Several other G5 programs have done that in recent memory. We still haven't finished better than 3rd in the AAC-West. That's not enough to leapfrog the other schools despite a Top 60 USNWR ranking, $2.2 billion endowment, Dallas market, billionaire alums, etc.
Sonny and his staff have this thing headed in the right direction, however. NIL, transfer portal, and vastly improved high school recruiting have allowed SMU to build a roster laden with P5 talent across the board. You have to hope that the talent and a veteran coaching staff will translate into getting over the "pretty good" hump and into the conversation of being the best G5 program in the country. He's gotten guys like Clark Hunt and David Miller to pour millions into facilities and staff salaries. As a private institution SMU doesn't have to disclose these figures but Sonny is north of $3m and Samples turned down OU and Texas for jobs last year with a promotion and raise to make him one of the highest paid Asst. Head Coaches/Recruiting Coordinators in the country.
Programs that have moved up to the P5 table (Rutgers excluded) all won multiple conference champions, NY6 bowl games, and spent the lion's share of the multiple seasons ranked in the Top 25. No one cares that TCU has 9,000 undergrads. People cared that they were being talked about nationally and winning big games. Same goes for Cincy, UH, and UCF.
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3 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:
Why are you on GMG selling SMU’s cause? We know this could all end disastrously for SMU if yalls Money Boys don’t do a lot of fast-talking convincing B12 powers.
SMU would crap themselves if they ever perceived UNT came out of all this smelling like a rose (& SMU like an old worn out boot). I don’t worry about it, because there will be other re-alignment opportunities for UNT. If not now, then probably by the time we have reached the state-forecasted 50,000 students at our Denton campus.Yet MWC a bad deal for UNT? It wasn’t a bad deal for TCU when they joined plus they had no Lone State State travel partner as I recall. I think SMU recalls quite well that TCU had no MWC travel partner, either. Y’all were still in CUSA.
When TCU entered the MWC they had no idea or even a dream that the Big 12 would ever have an opening, especially for a Texas private university. The SWC was Exhibit A as to why too many private universities in a (then) D1 conference was a bad combo.
Frank Broyles pointed all that out in a widely-read Dallas Times-Herald article by Mickey Spagnola(?) that some say was the first shot heard round the world that would end with the eventual demise of the SWC. His problem with the privates was their home attendance. Frank Broyles said back then there were only 2 rivals in the SWC—-UT vs the rest & Arkansas vs the rest.
🤔Just curious: Tulsa seems to be an enigma. Someone posted on GMG (or the other UNT forum) a year or so back that sounded like the entire university was almost bankrupt. Your pretty knowledgeable about your conference mates so—what’s with that?🦅
I'm not selling SMU's cause in any way. I am simply pointing out that leaving the AAC for the MWC given the economic realities of exit fees, travel costs, horrible start times, etc. makes it astronomically dumb for SMU. Maybe those same dynamics don't apply to UNT. I genuinely don't know.
I will say citing enrollment figures of 50,000 doesn't really move the needle a single bit in conference realignment. TCU got into the Big 12 with an undergrad enrollment of about 9,000. UCF, Houston, and Cincinnati didn't get invited to the Big 12 b/c of their enrollment numbers. They got in b/c each have played in a NY6 bowl and have won something significant on the national stage in recent years and have athletic budgets at the very top end of the G5 (including SMU). I just don't understand attendance smack directed towards SMU when we've got about 6,500 undergrads and roughly 50,000 living alumni in DFW. The fact that we had 23,500 for Abilene Christian and 29,200 for UNT is admirable IMO.
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MWC EXPANSION NEWS
in Mean Green Football
Posted
I tend to agree on the logic but the reality is the TV revenue, even in a scenario where Boise gets the bulk, is going to be significantly greater than a 14 team AAC with that configuration. At most that conference is going to get $1.5M per school. Would SMU be willing to go MWC for $3M? You also have the perennial G5 darling Boise along with rising contenders SDSU, AFA, etc. Basketball would be better in the MWC as well.
I agree however that the exit fees likely make it a nonstarter. Now if you're able to get Memphis and/or Tulsa as travel partners that dynamic changes.