SleepingGiantsFan
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Posts posted by SleepingGiantsFan
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I'm not being at all critical in asking this so please don't take it that way but who WOULD be "exciting" who is a legitimate candidate?
No disrespect but Mike Leach can't possibly have ever been. I haven't heard Mark Stoops' name for a couple weeks which would lead me to believe that as often happens in these things, UNT (or Neinas specifically) contacted him but after learning the specifics, Stoops withdrew his name from consideration. Franchione? Leavitt maybe? Y'all can guess the reason(s) if it isn't going to be them, right?
Anyway, McCarney may be an unexciting name but I think if you get him, you will be at least satisfied in hindsight since I think he will out-coach many of his peers in the Sun Belt. The key will be what kind of staff he puts together and considering his experience, my guess is it will be a good one.
Edit: Well, this one earned me my first official -1. Guess it's time to leave. In all honesty, I wish you folks very good luck in the future!
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Some pundits out there are idiots but Tom Dienhart isn't one of them.
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I'm not saying that McCarney is the next Barry Alvarez or Greg Schiano, but considering he's in their company as practically a statistical miracle... I'm willing to look past how long it took him to get winning at Iowa State.
I'm not saying that McCarney is the guy, or that he ought to be the guy, or that he's my favorite name among the guys who are still rumored to be in the hunt.
But...
When I did one of those big research deals on the "Give a coach a 4th year" to see how often a guy started like Dodge did and ever managed to post a winning record in any season at that school, we only came up with 8 real success stories. One of the eight was Dan McCarney.
The others were Barry Alvarez, Brady Hoke, Greg Schiano, Rich Brooks, Gary Barnett, Joe Novak, and Rocky Long.
The lesson seemed to be that only a very rare coach ever manages to right the ship when they start off with three straight losing seasons at a school, and that type of coach tends to be a very good one that just had to rebuild a very tough situation and/or compete over his school's head at a challenging location.
Props to you for the work.
Note that all seven of those guys inherited a steaming pile of dog poop. The only guy that comes to my mind who inherited a team that bad and turned things around immediately was Mike Price at UTEP and that was a unique situation. Gary Nord had redshirted everybody and their brother for two consecutive seasons in anticipation of putting it all together in 2004 but was fired before he got the chance and Price was the beneficiary of Nord's sacrifices. Unless UNT has been doing the same, it can't be expected that you guys will immediately win six more games like that - although with the horrendous job Dodge did, some instant improvement is inevitable.
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I posted this link on another thread. But here is how Minnesota assesses him.
That's an excellent analysis.
No way is a Big Ten school which also has a brand new stadium going to have to settle for McCarney. My guess is they open up their wallet and offer Kevin Sumlin a big contract and he leaves Houston.
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There are better options out there. This is a very, very safe hire. I hope we don't do it..
Saying McCarney would be a safe hire is a very good way to put it.
in contrast, here's what SDSU's then athletic director told my friend was the reason he didn't hire Dennis Erickson: "Because I couldn't have controlled him." That was the hire during which SDSU used Chuck Neinas. Might Neinas lead your AD to think the same of Franchione?
(BTW, I heard from another friend who heard it from the horse's mouth that Erickson could tell from his interview at SDSU that he wasn't going to be offered the job. The reason has to do with the kind of personal conduct issues that Neinas is known to be great at discovering because of all his contacts. Oh and I think ASU would hire anybody. Certainly it appears as though no ASU coach has ever had a problem getting a football player admitted. And yes, if you infer from that I don't have much respect for ASU as an academic institution, you've got it right.)
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Consider this.
In 2012, San Jose State will be the only one of the 16 schools which comprised the WAC in 1998 which will still be a member. Isn't that all UNT should need to know about that sinking ship?
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SleepingGiantsFan has said repeatedly that the SDSU AD signed Chuck Long despite Neinas' recommendation of Jimbo Fisher. So this scenario would not surprise me. Hopefully RV is wise enough to listen to Neinas' recommendation and combine that with what our University needs to come up with the right decision.
I should add that at the time, I was unaware that Neinas claimed to be not just a headhunter, but a "representative" of coaches. If that's accurate as one publication linked here reported, he sure better not be recommending any of coaches for which he is a representative. That kind of direct conflict of interest would get him in trouble with the bar if he were an attorney so although he doesn't have to worry about losing his license since there is none in his profession, I sure have to think that McCarney is NOT a client of his, nor is Leavitt, Kragthorpe or one of the other names which has arisen.
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If Steve Kragthorpe was chosen as our HFC, it would be a GREAT HIRE.
Kragthorpe. Mason. Leavitt. McCarney.
I would have expected UNT to get interest from one such coach with substantial experience at a higher level conference. Maybe two. But four? Sure looks like building that stadium has gotten the attention of more people than just me and that Missouri fan.
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Since the first time I heard his name dropped, I have thought he would be a tremendous hire.
Mason did an excellent job at Minnesota. That despite the fact that unlike Clem Haskins, his players actually attended class. Why he fails to get another gig is beyond me.
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So Kragthorpe, McCarney, and Matthews plus an unknown minority candidate. NIce pool to start from, but I hope there are a few more.
In order not to get into hot water with the BCA, it's almost essential to have a finalist who is a member of a minority group.
My comments about the article:
1. If Neinas is in fact now both a headhunter and a coaches agent, if that's not unethical, it's pretty close to it. (Sorry, Chuck, if you're reading along but I'll bet everybody on this board would feel that way.)
2. If UNT actually does have half a mil to 650 G's to pay for a coach, that's a very good thing.
3. Kragthorpe and McCarney need to get back into the head coaching ranks soon or they will never get another chance. So based on the money you supposedly have, my guess is both are within reach.
4. I've heard rumors that Bobby Petrino won big at Louisville to a certain extent that he brought in a bunch of bad character guys and that Kragthorpe was told to rid the program of such players. So that would partially explain his problems there. Still, as was discussed by several pundits, during Krgathorpe's final season it appeared as though the team had quit on him.
5. McCarney may have taken a while to get it in gear at Iowa State, but along with Baylor, that's the worst job in the Big 12. Maybe worse than Baylor in the sense that at least Waco is fairly close to a lot of DIA football talent. I've been to Ames and although it's a nice enough little town, it isn't close to anything. So I suspect if you guys hire McCarney, you're going to have some really pissed fans. However, I think that if he hired some assistants who have recruiting contacts in Texas, you could have yourself a good coach. Also, it seems to me that as long as McCarney coached at Iowa, even though they're in the Big 12 North, he may have some in-state contacts of his own.
Edit: BTW, I checked and McCarney had losing seasons his first five years at ISU. However, the Cyclones then went to bowl games five out of the next seven years. That says to me that once he got his own players in there, he did an impressive job.
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At least you don't seem to be pleading the case for or against one candidate or the other. I enjoy a discussion about the process of a coaching search.
Thanks for that. I'm honestly trying not to. Rather, I'm trying to encourage you guys to look at all the pluses and minuses of every candidate. In other words, to not do what several of your fans appear to be doing and absolutely make up your mind about one candidate over the various others at this point. All have both benefits and detriments and really only somebody like Chuck Neinas, who has a myriad of confidential contacts from whom information can be obtained, is capable of judging the best candidate.
Oh and BTW, I'm not necessarily a fan of Neinas. As an example, when it was first announced that SDSU had hired him, I was pretty skeptical. Then after Chuck Long hired Neinas' kid to be his special teams coach, I was REALLY skeptical. But I learned that Neinas didn't recommend Chuck, but rather Jimbo Fisher, and Chuck proved himself to be completely unready to be a DIA head coach. I don't know whether Fisher was ready at that time either, but Chuck did such a miserable job that I'm absolutely certain that Jimbo would have been considerably better.
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With all due respect, why your sudden concern over who we hire? I believe you stated you are a fan of SDSU, so I am curious what your connection is to North Texas.
My first reason is selfish. That is, I don't want additions to the MWC that I view as being next to worthless. Utah State is one such possible addition. They have a very good basketball program, but so what? Basketball almost doesn't matter in the scheme of things. I've said that football amounts to 75% of the basis of why a school should be added to a conference and men's BB means about 20% and USU football has been terrible. The Aztecs beat USU 41-7 this year in a game I attended and I can tell you the score could have been 55-0 had SDSU not muffed a punt at its seven yard line and had our coaches not run the clock out early in the fourth quarter. (TCU could have beaten Utah State, which has a good QB and not much else, 76-0 this year.)
My second reason is simply envy and curiosity. First, SDSU fans have wanted to stop being the Chargers' little brother for years. That means building our own stadium to get out from under those guys. So I applaud UNT for getting that done when we can't seem to do so. (I think we have some tightwad rich - not merely wealthy - alumni who are to blame for refusing to open their wallets, but I digress.) I'm also desirous of seeing you guys actually manage to make a good hire. I'm not really being critical when I say that since SDSU made two consecutive terrible head football coach hires. You guys just made one horrific one yourselves in Todd Dodge so I sure hope your administration isn't as stupid as ours was. Time will tell. I would be inclined to be optimistic but SDSU hired Chuck Neinas and then ignored what he recommended. so I'm interested to see if your AD does the same.
Anyway, I assure you I mean no harm. In fact, I wish nothing but the best for your guys.
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Possibly, but having Coach Coker in place didn't hurt UTSA's entrance into the WAC.
This. And the reason is it shows a commitment to football that conferences are looking for.
That would be as opposed to UNLV, which pays its head football coach far less than anybody else in the MWC, and which has fans who openly advocate dropping the sport.
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Conference don't pick new schools based on who the coach is. Coaches come and go.
Any expansion move the MWC makes is in our favor.
If they take a team from the WAC, it pretty much kill the conference and more BCS cash for us.
If they take a team from CUSA, we have a shot at filling the hole and CUSA. And if we don't get into CUSA there is still a chance of the dominoes kill the WAC anyway.
As long as the WACs dies, we win.
There are a few uninformed posters on the MWC board who think the conference should take Utah State in order to recapture the Utah TV market with the impending exit of BYU and Utah. Problem is nobody outside Utah cares a whit about USU nor does anybody in the state except the limited population that is north of SLC. Further, BYU and Utah capture what little HS football talent there is there and USU's basketball program doesn't justify adding the additional mouth to feed.
Aside from Utah State basketball, there will be no team within the WAC with any visibility outside its own geographic area once Boise, UNR, Fresno and Hawaii leave. San Jose State is close to shutting down its football program, LA Tech will probably be asked to join CUSA if the Big East poaches East Carolina and/or UCF.
Bottom line is the WAC is almost dead. That's unfortunate for the MWC in the sense it limits the obvious choices for expansion. However, given your geography, it will open things up for you. I mean, in my view, UNT potentially offers far more than Utah State or New Mexico State. But to repeat, since it's all about football, particularly since you're opening a new stadium, this hire is crucial for you folks.
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1) The MAC had a team come within a single win of qualifying for the BCS two years ago. They went at least two and I think three decades before they had a top 20 team.
2) The Belt is progressing just fine. Clearly it is in better shape than the WAC.
1) The underlined word is the operative term. The BCS is only obligated to take one non-AQ school which finishes in the top 12 and that year Ball State would not have finished as high as Utah and there's no way Ball State would have been offered a berth in a BCS bowl. Fact is, the MAC is a decent conference which is not at all in danger of folding. However, it IS stagnant.
2) The WAC is not stagnant. Rather, the WAC is dying. As you say, in contrast, the SBC is progressing. Fans of San Jose State, Utah State and New Mexico State have argued that after Boise, Fresno, Nevada and Hawaii leave, the WAC should merge with the SBC. If I was the SBC, I would be very careful about the ramifications for you of doing that.
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I'm all for Canales.
1) He's here.
2) We know he wants the job.
3) I suspect he's in our price range.
4) And I think the players like him and respond to him.
Hire him.
1) Why does that matter?
2) Apparently others do too.
3) I'm sure he is but how do you know others aren't?
4) One of SDSU's worst hires ever is the time they let some players sit on the hiring committee and none have been allowed to do so since.
I'm not saying UNT shouldn't hire Canales. However, with due respect, unless others who are interested are outside your "price range," I don't think you've given a single reason why he should be hired as opposed to somebody else. Rather, I think you've simply given reasons why he should be considered and it's apparent he IS being considered.
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I just don't know how much upside SMU has. Yesterday they had a chance to get bowl eligible, take the lead in CUSA West, and I believe had a "Fill the Ford" promotion and drew 17K. Will their $2 million dollar coach stick around? Why aren't they gaining any momentum?
SMU is maxed out. I don't know what they can bring to the MWC.
You asked above how long they can continue to write checks. I think that's an excellent point.
Having lurked on their board a few times, there is a solid core of SMU fans that believe they should never chance the death penalty again. As is apparent from SMU's past and the current mess at Auburn, the easiest way to start down that slippery slope is to have a few rich alumni who have too much influence on the program because they "write [big] checks." Just look at how Craig James stuck his nose into the Texas Tech program. No way should somebody with that much knowledge of how the process works have been lobbying to get his kid more playing time like James was reportedly doing. Well, the fact that James is one of the five amigos (or whatever they called themselves) who are paying the vast majority of June Jones' contract sure would give me pause if I was one of those other alumni worried about again getting trouble with the NCAA.
So I agree with you. I'm not somebody who wants to see SMU added to the MWC. Actually, I'm in the extreme minority of posters on the MWC board who looks at conference membership very long term and thinks that for various reasons, UNT might make a good addition at some point. Of course, to begin with, you guys can't botch this football hire up like you did the last one. (And BTW, I don't want to be a pain, but I'm still wondering why Todd Dodge was hired in the first place. A HIGH SCHOOL coach? That's like five or six levels down from coaching at DIA.)
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He is probably waiting for the best candidate to make up his mind. We don't really know - and that is the whole point. We spent 40 grand to let Neinas do his magic. Just put some trust in that, cool?
I'd sure put more trust in Neinas than I would in simply thinking that your AD "knows what he's doing." Maybe he does. However, there are dozens of examples nationwide at every level that ADs did NOT know what they were doing when they unilaterally hired a head coach.
Regarding Leavitt, having researched him a bit, he looks like he would be a very good candidate. However, knowing how Neinas works, the man is sure to be privy to information about Leavitt that none of us are. I'm not saying he won't recommend Leavitt. What I'm saying is that he will have vetted every candidate thoroughly so that if he in fact recommends Leavitt, that should confirm that, as some have argued on this board, USF just wanted to get rid of him and used the locker room incident as an excuse to void his contract. If, OTOH, Neinas recommends somebody else, I think you can infer from that there were aspects of Leavitt's firing that haven't become public knowledge. Probably things which predated the locker room incident.
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I think too much emphasis gets put on recruiting the DFW area. While the idea seems perfect, I don't think it matters just where you recruit....there are a lot more spares than good recruits in the area. The staff just needs to know how to recruit the whole state and our whole entire region and if the budget is there then we need to look nationally.
Budget IS the key. And let's face it. You guys aren't UT, which can afford to send its coaches anywhere to look for players. You guys therefore need to be sure that if you hire somebody to be head coach who doesn't know HS coaches in Texas that he hires several assistants who do.
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Keep in mind SMU is tied to the hip with tulane and rice...
Chances of Tulane and Rice being added to the MWC: zero. Student populations are much too small and even just with Hawaii coming in there is a growing perception that the MWC is starting to become the same WAC which AFA, CSU, Wyoming, UNM, UNLV and SDSU left to begin with.
SMU's chances? Also zero until they hired June Jones. Money talks and if SMU thinks the MWC will gain AQ status, regardless of the "hipness," SMU walks.
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hiring a head hunter
Canales is definitely a candidate
This. Because Neinas is a "head hunter," he is NOT an agent and therefore doesn't "represent" any coaches. And, therefore, he will not be biased in favor of anyone and therefore biased against Canales. His reputation depends on recommending the person he thinks would be the best choice out of the available candidates so that's what I'm sure he will do. Whether your AD takes that recommendation or ignores it to his detriment as did SDSU's AD will be interesting to see.
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Surely you guys get this.
No one is going to pay someone to come in and publish a public report about what they are doing wrong. I'm sure his private report to Rawlins had praise, but also critizism that would not be flattering to the university if made public.
It makes complete sense to pay someone outside of the university to assist with the coaching search. Someone that can protect the university if they get turned down by their 1st three choices and have to go with their 4th. Could you imagine the angst on this board if we found out 3 coaches turned us down? Much less the constant comparisons between those guys and the coach that actually did get the job.
Notice that there are no leaks on this search? Neimas. No leaks on when interviews will occur? Neimas.
People should just be happy that we are acting like a grown up athletic department for a change.
+40,000 (dollars)
Forty grand to help make a decision that could be worth millions in the long run? A "waste of money?"
I'll give you an idea how much of a "waste of money" the $40K SDSU spent on the Parker firm out of Atlanta was. I communicated with at least a dozen people about Terry Bowden since I thought he would have been a good choice for us. The only dirt I ever got out of that was the rumor (Bowden denies it but there sure seem to be a lot of people who believe it) that he was poking his secretary, who just happened to be the daughter of a certain influential member of the Board of Regents, who was reportedly none too happy about it. So he took a page out of Bill Clinton's book, I thought. BFD. Well, this week's rumors about Auburn make it crystal clear that there is reason to believe that at least for a couple years, Bowden continued Pat Dye's pay for play policy. I'm not saying he did so, only that there's reason to believe that and I now have no doubt that's why Bowden was never even given an interview by SDSU. (That from the mouth of a mutual acquaintance.) Did I manage to hear about that at the time? No. Did the Parker firm hear about it? You bet your ass they did.
Kudos to you, 90, and kudos to 2010 UNT. "Grown up" athletics departments hire Neinas or the Parker firm. Schools trying to operate on the cheap (as in minor league) don't.
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lovely Anniston
Angelina is wheels off
Brad Pitt chose poorly
Boy do I agree. A buddy sent me an email with a link the viewing of which led me to the inexorable conclusion that Angelina is a skank.
But we digress . . .
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Despite all that, our attendance in all sports would increase. We win 5 football games in 3 years, and we get 23,000 fans for Rice. We are not doing terrible in the SBC, but for name recognition of opponents, CUSA would be a step up...plus it would force SMU to play us in all sports, which whether they admit it or not, would be a positive for both schools (assuming SMU was still in CUSA).
I can certainly understand that and I'm not saying it might not be a good move for you if CUSA offered. I'm simply saying that you can be aspiring to greater heights, meaning the MWC. The MWC is on the cusp of gaining AQ status - which would of course be hindered by TCU leaving for the Big East. I still think it might happen anyway if the dregs of the conference like UNM and UNLV pick it up. However, CUSA is nowhere near gaining AQ status.
You have a huge student population in a major metropolitan area and are about to open a new stadium in football crazy Texas. In other words, you may be behind Southern Miss, but you have considerably more long-term potential in my view. So I'm simply urging you to think big. Not unrealistic like thinking Mike Leach would come, but big meaning hiring the best available football coach that you can afford.
Chico Is Staying!
in Mean Green Football
Posted
I want to congratulate you guys on what I think was an extremely successful hiring process!
I also want to congratulate you on having an athletic director not afraid to take heat for spending money to hire Chuck Neinas and not just doing things the easy way and promoting Mike Canales. And also for hiring a coach with the guts to hire a guy as one of his coordinators whom he knew many wanted to get the top job. Many head coaches are so paranoid they would be threatened by somebody like Canales. So props to McCarney on that.
With apologies to FirefighterRick (
) I'll just mention SDSU this last time. We won exactly two games two years ago. Now we're getting votes in the AP poll and Rivals has us as the 27th best team in the country. Brady Hoke gets all the credit but at least as important has been his staff as a whole, including DC Rocky Long, who Brady didn't worry some might think should be the top guy if the team struggled a bit. Seems that McCarney has the same philosophy.
I'll be following your program to watch the fruits of your efforts during this process. Again, MAJOR congratulations!