Infographic

[CMJ]

is the fact that his 2nd game of this season we hung around with OU any evidence?

We played St. Louis tough last year too. Where'd that get us?

[Mean_Green09]

What will be interesting to see when you look at some of those JJ career avg #'s VS Benford's 1yr #'s will be how much the rebounds and blocks (especially blocks) shrink from last year to this year due to the lack of one singular player. A guy he had for his entire 1yr stats and JJ had for 1/2 of a year on his 11yr avg. I love me some George, Q, & Davis, but those guys were not boarding and blocking like Tony. George was putting up monster numbers on the boards. I think he and Tony averaged about the same.

I'd be willing to say this team will rebound far better than last years team. Less blocked shots though.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Mean_Green09

[BillySee58]

is the growth of coleman any evidence?

is the fact that his 2nd game of this season we hung around with OU any evidence?

Please no moral victory garbage

[UNTBill]

is the growth of coleman any evidence?

is the fact that his 2nd game of this season we hung around with OU any evidence?

No!

[Mean Green 93-98]

is the growth of coleman any evidence?

is the fact that his 2nd game of this season we hung around with OU any evidence?

I'll just say that I hope you're right.

[CMJ]

First 35 games at NT:

Johnny Jones 18-17

Tony Benford 14-21

Four year winning percentage of program before they were hired.

Pre-JJ - 18.6% (20-87)

Pre-Benford - 64.6% (84-46)

So, Jones took over a program in much worse shape...and had a better record through 35 games. What are we talking about again?

Edited November 15, 2013 by CMJ

[Censored by Laurie]

Can't figure out what's more of a beating...this guy or the Sed Ellis hit in his sig line.

[andrewrozell]

Can't figure out what's more of a beating...this guy or the Sed Ellis hit in his sig line.

Certainly not trying to be a beating Laurie. I am just bringing a different voice to the board.

It is still optional to check this thread, right?

[BillySee58]

Certainly not trying to be a beating Laurie. I am just bringing a different voice to the board.

It is still optional to check this thread, right?

Andrew, did you watch UNT basketball before last season?

[Joshdude182]

That graphic is useless. There's only one statistic that matters:

Jones: 18-14

Benford: 12-20

Strength of schedule my ass. We lost to f***ing Louisiana Monroe TWICE last year under Benford. ULM went 4-23 last year. They won FOUR games and two of them were against us! Strength of schedule is an excuse. We lost to some really bad teams.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Joshdude182

[forevereagle]

is the growth of coleman any evidence?

Is it evidence that he didn't know what he was doing in his second game as a head coach? I don't see how.

is the fact that his 2nd game of this season we hung around with OU any evidence?

So we hung with OU for a little while, but still lost. Still don't see how that has any impact on him knowing what he was doing in the second game of last season.

[CMJ]

That graphic is useless. There's only one statistic that matters:

Jones: 18-14

Benford: 12-20

Strength of schedule my ass. We lost to f***ing Louisiana Monroe TWICE last year under Benford. ULM went 4-23 last year. They won FOUR games and two of them were against us! Strength of schedule is an excuse. We lost to some really bad teams.

I am not even sure that was the low point of the season. Getting destroyed by a 7-15 ULL team by 31 points was when I started calling for Benford and/or RV's head. That was probably the lowest I've felt about the basketball program since Maryland beat us by 75 back during Trilli's years.

[andrewrozell]

well, i certainly appreciate the banter! i am glad i am back active on the board after nearly a decade off.

season is young and lot can happen.

i know we are all fans and we all want success. maybe i will get to meet y'all at a game; y'all know what i look like... say hello.

[Mean_Green09]

Look there is a lack of evidence for this year's team. Yes they have shown some improvement, but there is a lot of work to be done. I'd cut our rotation down too. I'd leave Chris Jones off the floor until he proves that he can take care of the ball. I think we have some talent, but if I was the coach of these guys I would have already had a heart attack.

[emmitt01]

yeah, i remember that game. it was benford's second game here and he had yet to figure out what Mitchell was all about. (answer: himself)

EDIT: UAH was 25-6 last year.

Just so I can keep up with the current apology thinking, whose self-centered nature led to almost losing to Nichols State?

And I agree that Benford faced tougher competition. JJ played against the Sun Belt. In Benford's first year he had to play against the...wait, let's just not talk about that.

[andrewrozell]

Just so I can keep up with the current apology thinking, whose self-centered nature led to almost losing to Nichols State?

Not sure if you were at the game (or if that matters), but i never thought we were close to losing that one.

BTW, I think they prefer just "Nichols"

Edited November 15, 2013 by andrewrozell

[GRN-WHT]

yeah, i remember that game. it was benford's second game here and he had yet to figure out what Mitchell was all about. (answer: himself)

Yup, I agree. Benny is an idiot who had absolutely no idea what to do with a talent like Tony Mitchell.

We agree after all.

[forevereagle]

Not sure if you were at the game (or if that matters), but i never thought we were close to losing that one.

BTW, I think they prefer just "Nichols"

I was at the game and was absolutely worried about losing that game. We didn't pull away until late in the game. If they had just made us shoot instead of fouling, that game may have turned out very differently. I wish I had the confidence that you do, but I just didn't see a team that was ready to win that game. Nichols played better than we did for most of the game.

[IslandEagle]

I remain unconvinced. At the end of the day W's and L's are all that matters. JJ's last season here was 18-14, which was a disappointment. Most of us felt that way at the time. However, given the fact that the core nucleus only played together about six games, the meshing of the spare parts squad at years end, just about everyone (not just us...remember the press?) had us slated for a breakout year last season.

Would that have happened under Jones? It's hard to say...hypotheticals can be done all day. Let's just say, I don't believe we would have tanked to 12 wins.

I saw nothing during JJ's last season here to convince me he was going to do any better the next year.

[Andrew]

Yup, I agree. Benny is an idiot who had absolutely no idea what to do with a talent like Tony Mitchell.

We agree after all.

O might basketball GOd please save us... You are so smart. Please go on....

Good grief players read this crap and despise a lot of this fan base. Who can blame them with fans like this...

[andrewrozell]

i guess i just have a weird (irrational?) confidence, because the game looked kinda like we would pull away late.

[forevereagle]

I saw nothing during JJ's last season here to convince me he was going to do any better the next year.

Losing the conference tournament in the last minute of the game didn't lead you to believe, that with a lot of talent returning, that we might be a good team?

Edited November 15, 2013 by forevereagle

[CMJ]

I saw nothing during JJ's last season here to convince me he was going to do any better the next year.

Well, we played the first part of the season without Tony....and the second half without CJ and JW. They only played together for a handful of games. The general consensus was we'd be better with them all playing together.

Even without 2 of our more talented players (having a walk on playing big time minutes) we were 90 seconds from the NCAA's.

I mean, if you thought we wouldn't be better, that's cool....it just wasn't the general feeling.

[forevereagle]

i guess i just have a weird (irrational?) confidence, because the game looked kinda like we would pull away late.

We didn't take our first lead until 2 minutes left in the first half. Game was tied with 5:20 left in the game. We were only up by 4 with 1:45 left in the game. I guess you were right, though, it was really late when we pulled away. Not sure where that confidence comes from, but this game was a lot closer than the final score indicates.

See the full play by play here: http://espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400499240

[CMJ]

All doubts about Benford aside, I want him to prove me wrong. I had doubts almost immediately after the UAH game last year that finally boiled over when ULL beat us by 31. I wanted him gone after that, and did till around May when I just figured might as well get on board since he's gonna be here anyway.

I make no apologies for questioning him. But, if he starts to turn this thing around I'll probably be one of the bigger defenders on this board. I love basketball and want a winner. We do NOT have a history of winning teams here. Look at our all-time records if you want to get depressed. We'd have to win a 70% clip for several seasons just to put us over .500 all-time.

That's why so many of us loved JJ. He was turning that around. Maybe we weren't making the NCAA's every year, but we were in the hunt. Look at his record in the SBC tournament! I'm not asking for much...just a team that is in contention and doesn't embarrass us.

Losses to UAH, ULM (x2) and shellackings to schools with losing records, embarrass us. If the players hate us like Andrew says, that's too bad. However, other than their families, no one roots for them harder than I do, I guarantee you that.

Edited November 15, 2013 by CMJ