Fair Park renovations and how it should play into our strategy

[Harry]

I know that everyone wants us to play our games at Apogee as well we should.

I just wonder -- I keep reading that Dallas is looking at making Fair Park a year round venue adding rides and restaurants etc.

We all know that the State Fair rules. And of course Texas OU is the premier event. There is another game that pits Grambling and another SWAC conference team I believe...

It appears that the State Fair runs almost a month...so let's say there are three weekends you could play two of which are taken...

What some may not realize is that La. Tech somehow managed to get one of those weekend game dates this year against Army...kudos to them for that. They have it scheduled on the 28th of Sept and the Fair opens up on the 27th.

I wonder if it wouldn't be worth considering trying to get a non conference away or neutral site game there?

I know that we tried it before against Oklahoma State and it didn't work out very well attendance wise...

Not saying we should or should not do this. Just something to consider. Dallas seems to be on the rise and they seem very committed to developing the downtown southern sectors. I love the Fair and if there was a way to incorporate it into a North Texas game it would be pretty cool. I would not be for it if it in any way would diminish what we were trying to accomplish at Apogee.

[untjim1995]

You could play that game, very easily I might add, at the Cotton Bowl if you get the right opponent. Nebraska is the team that comes to mind, as does a school like OSU. OSU of today is way different than OSU of the 70s. It would take out-of-the-box thinking, but it could happen if you took advantage of the Cotton Bowl's larger venue.

ANd for what its worth, I can't imagine that the La Tech-Army game at the Cotton Bowl will draw that well. I still can't understand why that game isn't being played in Shreveport. Maybe La Tech burned their bridges with the Independence Bowl completely and they won't let them use that facility anymore. I really don't know.

[Harry]

You could play that game, very easily I might add, at the Cotton Bowl if you get the right opponent. Nebraska is the team that comes to mind, as does a school like OSU. OSU of today is way different than OSU of the 70s. It would take out-of-the-box thinking, but it could happen if you took advantage of the Cotton Bowl's larger venue.

ANd for what its worth, I can't imagine that the La Tech-Army game at the Cotton Bowl will draw that well. I still can't understand why that game isn't being played in Shreveport. Maybe La Tech burned their bridges with the Independence Bowl completely and they won't let them use that facility anymore. I really don't know.

Man I don't know -- The Fair is probably saying every person ever in the service will get in free on that day -- I think you might be surprised how many people enter the Fair that day especially if it is good weather...now will they be at the game? That's another question...

[untjim1995]

Man I don't know -- The Fair is probably saying every person ever in the service will get in free on that day -- I think you might be surprised how many people enter the Fair that day especially if it is good weather...now will they be at the game? That's another question...

We'll see. When we played Army before, we had a great crowd for Fouts-standards, but the game at Texas Stadium wasn't anything great. The game we played La Tech in Denton back in 2006 wasn't anything special, either, although we were at the beginning of the great fall and our losing had reached a pretty strong point by the time they played in Denton that year. To me, maybe they get 25k in attendance, but maybe they'll get way more than that? I just don't see it, though.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Have a mini-Texas/OU game the weekend before with UNT/Tulsa.

No. You know, I used to think along those lines as well, having a game at the old Cotton Bowl. But, these truth is, with Apogee now here, we need to feed what we have at our own place.

[Eagle1855]

La Tech has a big alumni base in Dallas, right? I imagine that had a lot to do with it. I'd love to see the La Tech-NT game played at a neutral site every year. That could create a fun rivalry.

Ok State is playing in Reliant Stadium to open the season against Miss St. Reliant will start featuring marquee match-ups (similar to what Jerry's done in Arlington) each year.

As an aside: why the Aggies and LSU haven't been playing each other at Reliant since its opening is beyond me. Now that they are conference mates, I fully understand it. But that used to be a good rivalry in the 90s. And both have substantial fanbases in Houston.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Eagle1855

[PlummMeanGreen]

North Texas played in the Cotton Bow a few times during the Rod Rust era and to not very large crowds. In one of those games, ex Cowboy Golden Richards of BYU ran one back for about 100 yards according to some of you "older" alums.

In 1981 we UNT played a handful of games in the Cotton Bowl. It was Bob Tyler's one and only year as the UNT coach. It was promoted about as good as North Texas could in that era; in fact, I think about $50,000 was spent for promotions in those Cotton Bowl games if memory serves me. During that era, $50,000 was a fairly impressive amount for promotions for our school.

Others alums who were around during the Rod Rust era and during that 1981 season may want to tune in on this subject, but trust me, fellow alums, we have a nice stadium in a nice neighborhood in west Denton with good parking and a pedestrian bridge to boot!

IMHO.......let's fill Apogee instead of looking at a helluva' bunch of empty seats in the Cotton Bowl. Doesn't hurt to speculate about tweaking our product, though.

GMG!

PS: We "ONLY" drew about 17,000 against the Oklahoma State Cowboys in one of those Cotton Bowl games and that was even during the State Fair of Texas.

Edited May 10, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[Harry]

North Texas played in the Cotton Bow a few times during the Rod Rust era and to not very large crowds. In one of those games, ex Cowboy Golden Richards of BYU ran one back for about 100 yards according to some of you "older" alums.

In 1981 we UNT played a handful of games in the Cotton Bowl. It was Bob Tyler's one and only year as the UNT coach. It was promoted about as good as North Texas could in that era; in fact, I think about $50,000 was spent for those Cotton Bowl games if memory serves me.

Others alums who were around during the Rod Rust era and during that 1981 season may want to tune in on this subject, but trust me, fellow alums, we have a nice stadium in a nice neighborhood in west Denton with good parking and a pedestrian bridge to boot!

IMHO.......let's fill Apogee instead of looking at a helluva' bunch of empty seats in the Cotton Bowl. Doesn't hurt to speculate about tweaking our product, though.

GMG!

PS: We "ONLY" drew about 17,000 against the Oklahoma State Cowboys in one of those Cotton Bowl games and that was even during the State Fair of Texas.

It would be interesting to compare the population in DFW and Fair avg attendance from now and back then.

[PlummMeanGreen]

It would be interesting to compare the population in DFW and Fair avg attendance from now and back then.

A football program with 3 winning seasons out of 18 years may not want to fight its attempst to "grow its attendance" wars on too many fronts IMHO, Harry.

200,000 NT Exes in DFW now (probably twice as many as the early 80's) seems to have not increased our crowds that significantly since the Fry era with

an upwardly mobile ratio that our recent growth which (in a normal world) would reflect such growth at our present day turnstiles (which for now it has not).

Winning will change much for us and it will be at that time that our recent, ie, the last 15 years of sky-rocketing growth will show at the turnstiles compared

to past decades.

With over 700,000 in Denton County we really have a nice base to draw from when we start winning again. Just my .02 and I think other older alums might concur

from most all our experiences in east Dallas and Fair Park.

GMG!

Edited May 10, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[houstonmeangreen]

You could play that game, very easily I might add, at the Cotton Bowl if you get the right opponent. Nebraska is the team that comes to mind, as does a school like OSU. OSU of today is way different than OSU of the 70s. It would take out-of-the-box thinking, but it could happen if you took advantage of the Cotton Bowl's larger venue.

ANd for what its worth, I can't imagine that the La Tech-Army game at the Cotton Bowl will draw that well. I still can't understand why that game isn't being played in Shreveport. Maybe La Tech burned their bridges with the Independence Bowl completely and they won't let them use that facility anymore. I really don't know.

How good the turn out will depend on the other team...perhaps a UNT/UTSA game...could be big

[Huff]

I attended the games in The Cotton Bowl against Oklahoma State and UTA. Those were miserable experiences. I told the athletic department at that time that I would never attend another North Texas game that was played there and my feelings have not changed. If North Texas schedules a "home" game there my six tickets will be available - for free - to anyone who wants them.

[EAGLE83]

LA TECH game is sponsored by the HEART OF DALLAS BOWL.

[foutsrouts]

If TT didn't already have their Baylor thing in Arlington going on, I would probably be interested in pushing for them in the CB, but for now I kind of think that we should just concentrate on getting better at Apogee.

[Stan R]

Have a mini-Texas/OU game the weekend before with UNT/Tulsa.

No. You know, I used to think along those lines as well, having a game at the old Cotton Bowl. But, these truth is, with Apogee now here, we need to feed what we have at our own place.

Finally we agree on something.

[ragpicker]

The advantage of playing one game in the Cotton Bowl with a name opponent and proper promotion is recruiting. There are a lot of high school kids in South Dallas and Oak Cliff who do not own cars but use public transportation to get around, There are also still ROTC kids in those schools who usher Cotton Bowl events. A trip to Denton (or even SMU) is not easy for these kids and it would be nice if UNT could bring a game to them. I have taught school at both Madison and Roosevelt High and there are some great kids at those schools who do not have easy access to some of the things that many of us take for granted. I agree, however, that we need to win at Apogee first.

[GrayEagle]

The only Cotton Bowl (Stadium) series that I think would be interesting would be TCU-SMU-North Texas round-robin. Each would play two of the three years against each other. Since most of the fair-goers are from the metromess, a game during the State Fair should draw reasonably well IF it's competitive. Since it wouldn't be a conference game for either, each would still get their six home games at their own stadium.

We can't compare what happened in the past with today's structure. All three programs are ahead of their posture twenty or more years ago; especially TCU. Attendance should be decent and travel expenses almost non-existent. Have a traveling trophy that stays in the trophy case of the current winner. It should allow college football to be more competitive with the pros.

[ragpicker]

The only Cotton Bowl (Stadium) series that I think would be interesting would be TCU-SMU-North Texas round-robin. Each would play two of the three years against each other. Since most of the fair-goers are from the metromess, a game during the State Fair should draw reasonably well IF it's competitive. Since it wouldn't be a conference game for either, each would still get their six home games at their own stadium.

We can't compare what happened in the past with today's structure. All three programs are ahead of their posture twenty or more years ago; especially TCU. Attendance should be decent and travel expenses almost non-existent. Have a traveling trophy that stays in the trophy case of the current winner. It should allow college football to be more competitive with the pros.

That is a good idea.

[UNT 90 Grad]

I don't care for the idea, but if it was going to happen, I think a series with TCU makes the most sense. That's the only school where the "neutral" site concept really applies since the schools are relatively equidistant from the Cotton Bowl.

And if the goal is to give UNT games exposure to Dallas kids, you can't do that with a scrimmage. You have to have a true game day experience and you just won't get that with a game that means nothing.

[KRAM1]

Maybe someday...right now and in the foreseeable future...NO NO NO! Been to too many UNT games at the Cotton Bowl and old Texas Stadium (Terrible experiences all as far as fan experience and attendance pretty much sucked). Like I said, maybe someday with a big marquee match-up or series thing, but giving up a game at Apogee is, in my opinion, a terrible idea. I'd much rather concentrate on growing crowds and developing marquee match-ups at Apogee. That's what it was built for after all, and Apogee, again in my opinion, with sellout crowds would do much more for recruiting than would a game at the Cotton Bowl.

Apogee is a palace and we need to showcase it as often as possible. Just my two cents....

[SilverEagle]

I agree with the "no thanks" people on this one. Even if things are better, development-wise and safety-wise, it would take a decade for anyone to really believe that and go to a game at the old cotton bowl.

Besides, it doesn't send a very strong message of confidence in your program when you build a new state-of-the-art facility (NT, SMU and TCU) and then schedule a game at an old (albeit remodeled) venue in the fair park area.

[oldguystudent]

No.

[CMJ]

No.

You know what I'm digging?

[PlummMeanGreen]

The only Cotton Bowl (Stadium) series that I think would be interesting would be TCU-SMU-North Texas round-robin. Each would play two of the three years against each other. Since most of the fair-goers are from the metromess, a game during the State Fair should draw reasonably well IF it's competitive. Since it wouldn't be a conference game for either, each would still get their six home games at their own stadium.

We can't compare what happened in the past with today's structure. All three programs are ahead of their posture twenty or more years ago; especially TCU. Attendance should be decent and travel expenses almost non-existent. Have a traveling trophy that stays in the trophy case of the current winner. It should allow college football to be more competitive with the pros.

I think the new Big 12 TCU with what they are now trying to do nationally with their football program is a pipe dream for North Texas to schedule the Froggies. Of course, it never hurts to ask since the worst thing they could tell us is......no. I also don't think TCU's series with SMU will be long term, either.

GMG! Edited May 11, 2013 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTcrazy727]

Hell no. If a team won't come to Denton then find one that will.

[Cooley]

No

The so called benefit to moving to CUSA was to finally get some name schools to Denton. Start selling out Apogee and winning some championships and we can then visit taking this product on the road.