Meanwhile in San Antonio

[Green Dozer]

UTSA...regarding the crowds..San Antonio is the 7th largest city in the US. San Ant wanted a football team as much as a I want a beer right now. They have basketball and thats it.

UTSA...UNT has the upper hand on recruiting just for the simple reason that UNT has a football facility... UTSA has no practice facility except what is on a drawing and has been on a drawing for 3 years; they practice on a high school football field.

And I'm sorry, I go back to their schedule and the d2 schools and d1aa schools that they beat. OK...they beat USA and Tx State. Wow, that would impress me if I were a recruit....

GMG

Sorry, but we are not ahead of them in recruiting. Both them and Tx State have 2 and 3 star recruits. We don't!

[Green Dozer]

Horse exhaust.....the Alamodome wasnt built for D1 and high school games....

Alamodome is nearly 20 years old (opened in 1993). It will soon be outdated for an NFL team. Besides, San Antonio did not turn out for the Saint in the season after Katrina

[Chrisattsu]

Alamodome is nearly 20 years old (opened in 1993). It will soon be outdated for an NFL team. Besides, San Antonio did not turn out for the Saint in the season after Katrina

The stadium holds 65k and they showed up for the Saints games-- 58k against Buffalo, 65k against Atlanta, 64k against Detroit

[Green Mean]

The Alamodome is already outdated for an NFL team and became outdated about a few years after it opened. While I don't believe it's as bad as a lot of people say but ya it isn't anything stellar.

[trussbussdad]

Green Dozer...UTSA currently has one 3 star and one 2 star with several NR...we have two, 2 stars" with several NR. So officially they do have "5 stars" and we have 4. As flawed as this star system is I do not give it any more credit than the paper it is printed on.

[aztecskin]

I don't give much credence to the recruiting angle. A given recruit can be anyone from a Lance Dunbar to a Tyler Stradford. That said, you increase your odds of getting good players by increasing then number of "good (3 star and above)" recruits.

Dan McCarney (coach Mac's nephew) once told me his uncle's philosophy: you expect a third of the class to be contributors, a third to be just kind of there, and a third to transfer, get cut, quit etc. That's a good recruit class.

[oldguystudent]

San Ant wanted a football team as much as a I want a beer right now.

At 8 o'clock on a Wednesday morning, as I slog through IRC Sec. 679, Foreign trusts having one or more United States beneficiaries, I bet I want a beer right now more than SA wanted a football team.

Edited November 28, 2012 by oldguystudent

[Green P1]

And I'm sorry, I go back to their schedule and the d2 schools and d1aa schools that they beat. OK...they beat USA and Tx State. Wow, that would impress me if I were a recruit....

GMG

But beating USA and Texas Southern.... THAT WILL BLOW RECRUITS AWAY!!!

You credit them with 2 real wins on their schedule. Take away the 2 little girls on our schedule and how many real wins can we be credited with?

Edited November 28, 2012 by Green P1

[untjim1995]

Green Dozer...UTSA currently has one 3 star and one 2 star with several NR...we have two, 2 stars" with several NR. So officially they do have "5 stars" and we have 4. As flawed as this star system is I do not give it any more credit than the paper it is printed on.

But ask yourself why would a program that is basically starting from nowhere even in the ballpark, much less leading, a university that has fielded a team for 90+ years and has been playing FBS ball since 1995 while they haven't actually started there yet? Recruiting is a pure crapshoot, no doubt, but the more stars the better the potential. As we have seen this season, we need talented recruits that can get better, not just diamonds-in-the-rough that turn out to be much better contirbutors than ever imagined because they walked on or had no stars when they were recruited. We desperately need 2 and 3 star kids to come here and get developed into 3 and 4 star players. Aside from Dickey's SBC juggernaut of 2001-2004, we have never been able to do that here since 1995.

[FirefightnRick]

Larry Coker

71-25 as a head coach.

4-2 in bowl games.

1 National Championship...(2001)

3 Big East Championships..(2001-2003)

AFCA Coach of the Year (2001)

Paul "Bear" Bryant Award (2001)

2x Big East Coach of the Year (2001–2002)

[KRAM1]

But beating USA and Texas Southern.... THAT WILL BLOW RECRUITS AWAY!!!

I see what you are saying...but, beating anyone helps recruiting more than losing does. Just my opinion. Don't know who is correct here as we haven't done much winning in the last 8 years to tell.

[Grant.UNT]

I predict a loss to them next year right now.

how dare you be critical of this team!! i kid, i kid.

[KRAM1]

Larry Coker

71-25 as a head coach.

4-2 in bowl games.

1 National Championship...(2001)

3 Big East Championships..(2001-2003)

AFCA Coach of the Year (2001)

Paul "Bear" Bryant Award (2001)

2x Big East Coach of the Year (2001–2002)

Point being?

You aren't getting ready to paint that fire hat orange and blue and move to San Antonio to be with what seems to be your new most favorite coach or anything I hope...these type of psuedo-comparisons really have no validity. Lots of folks win someplace and not others...we'll see how this goes...right now, I'm with Mac you can have Coker!

[aztecskin]

It is much harder to rebuild than start from scratch. Mac has to excite a cynical fanbase and inspire an apathetic, spoiled DFW market. He has to use the roster of a former coach who left it short of the full 85 while playing an FBS schedule.

Larry had two years to recruit guys that would buy in to what was happening. Two years to prepare for the first season, the full backing of the university and city, and enthusiasm and excitement to ride for those two years. 56K showed up to see any kind of football in San Antonio, where the options are 1hr to Austin, 40 min to San Marcos, or D3 schools.

In DFW you have Cowboys, SMU, TCU and even some Arena league to mess with. Mavericks, Rangers, Stars (sometimes) and three or four minor league baseball squads dividing attn/money.

There is no real comparison between DM and LC's challenges.

[GL2Greatness]

It is much harder to rebuild than start from scratch. Mac has to excite a cynical fanbase and inspire an apathetic, spoiled DFW market. He has to use the roster of a former coach who left it short of the full 85 while playing an FBS schedule.

Larry had two years to recruit guys that would buy in to what was happening. Two years to prepare for the first season, the full backing of the university and city, and enthusiasm and excitement to ride for those two years. 56K showed up to see any kind of football in San Antonio, where the options are 1hr to Austin, 40 min to San Marcos, or D3 schools.

In DFW you have Cowboys, SMU, TCU and even some Arena league to mess with. Mavericks, Rangers, Stars (sometimes) and three or four minor league baseball squads dividing attn/money.

There is no real comparison between DM and LC's challenges.

DMac has a new stajium the school "owns" right on campus.....a new billion dollar athletics village with two ponds and a bridge (finally)......a stable conference to recruit to......bowl tie ins.......two milleniums of "history".......his record from ISU......his ring from Florida......

oh wait that is all for some other thread

what is the excuse for TxState they have 3 wins so far with a game left against one of the worst programs in D1-A

one of their wins was D1-AA, but Stephen F. Austin is way better than TSU and Idaho is about like USA and they beat UH at UH and on fact pounded them so that is at least good as the Louisiana win so if they beat NMSU they will have the same record as north Texas......in a stajium that seats a few hundred less....that was only remodeled not new.....with a smaller budget.....moving up this year not 18 years ago.....no bridge.....and their ponds are not on the stajium grounds and one used to have a PIG swim in it and no TMitch! and no billion dollar athletics compound and Fran does not have a MNC ring and he eats little debbies

[FirefightnRick]

It is much harder to rebuild than start from scratch. Mac has to excite a cynical fanbase and inspire an apathetic, spoiled DFW market. He has to use the roster of a former coach who left it short of the full 85 while playing an FBS schedule.

Larry had two years to recruit guys that would buy in to what was happening. Two years to prepare for the first season, the full backing of the university and city, and enthusiasm and excitement to ride for those two years. 56K showed up to see any kind of football in San Antonio, where the options are 1hr to Austin, 40 min to San Marcos, or D3 schools.

In DFW you have Cowboys, SMU, TCU and even some Arena league to mess with. Mavericks, Rangers, Stars (sometimes) and three or four minor league baseball squads dividing attn/money.

There is no real comparison between DM and LC's challenges.

Wow!!!! You truly believe this don't you?

Rick

[UNTFan23]

Wow!!!! You truly believe this don't you?

Rick

In terms of the sports entertainment competition, he is dead on.

From where I live in Carrollton I can name 4 pro or semi-pro sports teams where I could watch games (Frisco & Allen).

[FirefightnRick]

In terms of the sports entertainment competition, he is dead on.

From where I live in Carrollton I can name 4 pro or semi-pro sports teams where I could watch games (Frisco & Allen).

The sports entertainment competition factor for us isn't arguable and I wasnt comparing attendance.

But while we have witnessed guys like Todd Berry at ULM more than just compete in only his third year with a crappy stadium, worst than crappy location and a total football budget of $2.2 Million, the shocker is we have fans who have convinced themselves that if we were to lose to UTSA next year it's OK, because after all, they are a start up from scratch program and somehow didn't have it as bad as North Texas.

Rick

[KRAM1]

In terms of the sports entertainment competition, he is dead on.

From where I live in Carrollton I can name 4 pro or semi-pro sports teams where I could watch games (Frisco & Allen).

This!

My opinion...much harder for Mac to "rebuild" UNT's program after the last few years of results than for Coker to build from the ground up. If I were a coach (which thankfully I am not) I would much rather build a new program from the ground up that try to "re-build" one that has seen tough times for several years running. Like build a house...it is "easier" to build from the ground up than it is to remodel and existing structure. Much more enthusiasm and much less negativity surrounding UTSA than UNT at the moment. The negativity from UNT's so-called fans, does not help in any way. UTSA does not have to face that problem at the moment. Seems to me that UNT fans often do all they can to be "part of the problem" Mac faces rather than trying to be part of the solution. Always pointing to negatives or trying to compare apples to oranges just is not helping.

[untjim1995]

The sports entertainment competition factor for us isn't arguable and I wasnt comparing attendance.

But while we have witnessed guys like Todd Berry at ULM more than just compete in only his third year with a crappy stadium, worst than crappy location and a total football budget of $2.2 Million, the shocker is we have fans who have convinced themselves that if we were to lose to UTSA next year it's OK, because after all, they are a start up from scratch program and somehow didn't have it as bad as North Texas.

Rick

Todd Berry also has a QB that can play. I don't fault McCarney for this now, but I will next year. Whoever is the QB (praying its Brock because he wins the job), he better be able to throw the ball accurately. In year three, that excuse will have been beaten. But for this year--and the previous year--its just a personnel issue. He was left with almost nothing at that position. I still believe that your third year as coach is when you can tell if things are going in the right direction or not. Its just that here at UNT, we don't have the $$$ to get rid of someone if that third year is poor and there are still multiple years left on the contract.

Remember when USF came in here to Denton and beat us? Remember FAU doing the same thing? UTSA doing it next year is not beyond the scope of possibility. If it happens, it will be unacceptable and it will firmly place McCarney on the hot seat going into Year 4. But starting from scratch is easier than winning here--I firmly, unquestionsably, believe this. The Texas HS coaches only know North Texas as a loser and as a program that played spare teams for all of their life. Until McCarney got here, the Texas HS coaches in the last 30 years have dealt with Corky Nelson running a 1-aa program the best he could, Dennis Parker, a fellow HS coach, Matt Simon, an unknown assistant with a massive ego and a confrontational attitude, Darrell Dickey, a non-descript assistant that had the personality of a wall, and Todd Dodge, who HS success caused an ego that other HS coaches resented greatly. At UTSA, they known Larry Coker, winner of a national championshp in the last 11 years. At Texas State, they know Dennis Franchione is leading the charge, the same guy who coached at TCU, Alabama, and A&M. Those TX HS coaches don't know of UTSA and TX State as college football losers and dregs. That's almost all they have ever known of North Texas all of their lives.

[aztecskin]

The sports entertainment competition factor for us isn't arguable and I wasnt comparing attendance.

But while we have witnessed guys like Todd Berry at ULM more than just compete in only his third year with a crappy stadium, worst than crappy location and a total football budget of $2.2 Million, the shocker is we have fans who have convinced themselves that if we were to lose to UTSA next year it's OK, because after all, they are a start up from scratch program and somehow didn't have it as bad as North Texas.

Rick

ULM has had a great season and this is all fine. Todd Berry has yet to build a program though. You start by getting a good season. Then you do it again for five-to-ten years straight. Do it after Berry leaves for another program. Do it when Kolton Browning leaves. You see where I'm going here.

We can sit here all day and talk one-year wonders. Or even one-coach wonders (Hayden Fry, Darrell Dickey). Let's not. The sports-entertainment thing matters because large crowds and enthusiastic fan/university support help reinforce the coach's message to recruits and players.

It's a whole hell of a lot easier to get ready for two-a-days when people are walking around excited for the season than it is when people are calling your program a joke. You get hyped up be the first class to represent your hometown than the least successful of three.

Let's stop with the McCarney bashing already. Or at least start leveling reasonable criticisms, like his choice of vodka over tequila.

[trussbussdad]

If Coker is all that and a bag of chips...why isnt Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky (already hired a Stoops), Purdue, to name a few, not beating his door down with a 5 year, 20 million dollar contract? Why did he end up at UTSA and not one of the options that was open when he went to UTSA? NO ONE WANTED HIM!!! Even after the Nat'l championships and everything else previously mentioned.

[FirefightnRick]

Todd Berry also has a QB that can play. I don't fault McCarney for this now, but I will next year. Whoever is the QB (praying its Brock because he wins the job), he better be able to throw the ball accurately. In year three, that excuse will have been beaten. But for this year--and the previous year--its just a personnel issue. He was left with almost nothing at that position. I still believe that your third year as coach is when you can tell if things are going in the right direction or not. Its just that here at UNT, we don't have the $$$ to get rid of someone if that third year is poor and there are still multiple years left on the contract.

Remember when USF came in here to Denton and beat us? Remember FAU doing the same thing? UTSA doing it next year is not beyond the scope of possibility. If it happens, it will be unacceptable and it will firmly place McCarney on the hot seat going into Year 4. But starting from scratch is easier than winning here--I firmly, unquestionsably, believe this. The Texas HS coaches only know North Texas as a loser and as a program that played spare teams for all of their life. Until McCarney got here, the Texas HS coaches in the last 30 years have dealt with Corky Nelson running a 1-aa program the best he could, Dennis Parker, a fellow HS coach, Matt Simon, an unknown assistant with a massive ego and a confrontational attitude, Darrell Dickey, a non-descript assistant that had the personality of a wall, and Todd Dodge, who HS success caused an ego that other HS coaches resented greatly. At UTSA, they known Larry Coker, winner of a national championshp in the last 11 years. At Texas State, they know Dennis Franchione is leading the charge, the same guy who coached at TCU, Alabama, and A&M. Those TX HS coaches don't know of UTSA and TX State as college football losers and dregs. That's almost all they have ever known of North Texas all of their lives.

1. Did McCarney NOT recruit Osborn and McNulty? I believe so. You can't say he was left with NOTHING when his own recruits couldn't beat out NOTHING. I know I'm in the minority but I like DT. Ignore the fact that DT doesn't play defense and remember that Derek completed 58 percent of his passes last year. He had 11 TD's to 6 INT's and threw for 1759 yards in a run first and second offense and finished with a 121 efficiency percentage. And still, NOTHING was again made the starter...this year. He's not the reason MTSU blew us out in the first half this year, or that we only won 4 games and he won't be the reason should we lose to UTSA next year...God forbid!

2. Yes, I remember when USF beat us here.....and down there in back to back seasons. I remember it well because even then we had several enablers here blowing sunshine up our asses telling us how it was ok and that Dickey had it much much worse than Jim Leavitt had while he was still coaching out of double wide trailers.

3. As for what coaches are remembered the most for Francione is mostly known as a winner every where he's been. But he's also remembered as the guy who left Bama in a lurch and was wrapped up in some weird booster/email scheme at A&M.. But I'm certain parents and recruits do google their prospective coaches. Check out the headline of the third listing under a google search for Dennis Francione..

................"Bama Is Still Pissed Off At Dennis Francione".......

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1280&bih=827&sclient=psy-ab&q=Dennis+Francione&oq=Dennis+Francione&gs_l=hp.3...3422.6640.0.7250.16.12.0.1.1.0.328.1986.0j5j4j1.10.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.lNl2a4I9XKs&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=a003a3698b0962f2&bpcl=38897761

It's not all positive when you google search coaches, some more than others and I wonder if the players give it much concern when they decide where they are going to play at the next level.

4. I can't see how you can compare a start up(UTSA) that has so little to sell to a recruit to a team that has more than it's ever had. The kids playing now at UTSA did so knowing they wouldn't even play a meaningful game for two years, and you think we're having to catch up to that? And as for Texas State, prior to this year they have had 7 winning seasons the past 28 years in 1-AA. They have not been the bastion of championships in many moons.

..edit...

I'm not calling for any heads. But there's no excuse for us to lose, or for our fanbase to expect us to lose or have a list of excuses why we could lose to UTSA next year. I sure our coaches and players feel that way. Have a little more respect for yourselves and for our team than that.

Rick

Edited November 28, 2012 by FirefightnRick