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PlummMeanGreen

Norm: 'why Can't North Texas Be Boise?"

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First of all, Canales is Interim Head Coach, let Rick V pick the Head Coach. :rolleyes:

Norm, you would be crucified on this board. Too many unbelievers who think the SBC and Bottom 25 SBC championship trips to NO's is their version of NCAA nirvana.

And who is the clown talking alongside Norm? He sounds like a typical younger UNT alum with all his low expectation talk and pro-talk for Canales. He probably hates when Hayden Fry's name is mentioned, too, if he is. He for damn sure did not attend UNT in the 70's. I can always tell those who didn't.

Go for it some of you young gunners, give me those red numbers! You honor me when some of your group does that because many of you still don't have a clue. You know, like making the first round of the NCAA and getting our asses whooped each time is your idea of a successful basketball program for starters? Bring it! And don't hide behind your monikers or "would be" cute'sy comments. Show us some true grit for a change instead of your Ticket'esque and extremely poor sports smack board attempts at humor to put down what most on this forum would believe to be the truth--but not your version of the truth? You know, just like those who call Tea Party folks "those racist booger bears" because they just don't happen to believe in the most liberal politics and policies in our nation's history? Whats right about that? Truly, my favorite liberal, Juan Williams, got fired from NPR last night because of his having his own opinon that differed from someone elses--like federal funded NPR. Screw PC and those who use it to further their own version of the truth. Hellsbells, Harry M! I didn't mean to do add this lagniape but I just drank some Starbucks cappicione with double the mule kick in it! Blame Starbucks! :rolleyes:

Norm, you are now an honorary UNT alum, but don't dream too big in your future comments about UNT football. You, too, would get those red numbers. :blowup:

Edited by PlummMeanGreen
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Because Boise supports Boise State. Denton does not support North Texas.

Because there are no other outlets for entertainment in Boise. UNT must compete with the following regional entities for entertainment attention and dollars:

Dallas Cowboys

Dallas Mavericks

Dallas Stars

Texas Rangers

TCU

SMU

Big 12 Schools

Frisco Roughriders

Grand Prarie Airhogs

FC Dallas

The American Airlines Center

The Verizon Theatre

Six Flags

JerryWorld

Lone Star Park

Winstar Casino

Bass Hall

The Meyerson

The Winspear

Texas State Fair

There are so many outlets competing for the discretionary income of the people in and around DFW, you can't compare it to Boise.

That's not to say we can't be successful. But, it is to say this - get real about what we are competing for. We must win. We must have a coach who is more than nice. We need someone who understands this thing has competition on and off the field - all year long.

It's the same way with our basketball program or any other sport. We are one of dozens and dozens of things to do in one of the biggest metropolitian areas in the country. We've got to make ourselves stand out more.

Boise isn't saddled with competition for discretionary income. It just mean our administrators and coaches have to understand the big picture and be willing to work 110% everyday to build this thing.

Boise could do it out of sight of everyone. We are drowned out, literally, by our own surroundings.

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Because Boise supports Boise State. Denton does not support North Texas.

Because there are no other outlets for entertainment in Boise. UNT must compete with the following regional entities for entertainment attention and dollars:

Dallas Cowboys

Dallas Mavericks

Dallas Stars

Texas Rangers

TCU

SMU

Big 12 Schools

Frisco Roughriders

Grand Prarie Airhogs

FC Dallas

The American Airlines Center

The Verizon Theatre

Six Flags

JerryWorld

Lone Star Park

Winstar Casino

Bass Hall

The Meyerson

The Winspear

Texas State Fair

There are so many outlets competing for the discretionary income of the people in and around DFW, you can't compare it to Boise.

That's not to say we can't be successful. But, it is to say this - get real about what we are competing for. We must win. We must have a coach who is more than nice. We need someone who understands this thing has competition on and off the field - all year long.

It's the same way with our basketball program or any other sport. We are one of dozens and dozens of things to do in one of the biggest metropolitian areas in the country. We've got to make ourselves stand out more.

Boise isn't saddled with competition for discretionary income. It just mean our administrators and coaches have to understand the big picture and be willing to work 110% everyday to build this thing.

Boise could do it out of sight of everyone. We are drowned out, literally, by our own surroundings.

Lonnie,

As a small business owner, I could argue North Texas does not support Denton. No, I am not talking about the students spending their money with us. But I have tried to get my business involved in the UNT Athletic Department. You meet with them, get promised this and that, and nobody follows up with you. Yes, I have tried to follow up but it is we are busy with golf, softball, etc. I have tried to find out about advertising, sponsoring a morning coffee where the business community could meet the coaches from all the sports, not just men's bb and football. I have asked about signage at the coliseum, sponsoring koozies. I get a yes answer, but nothing after that. I can take you to several businesses around town who have UNT stuff hanging up, as they tried the same thing when they opened. Texas Roadhouse tried and you don't see them. Visit Rudy's, they tried to. You can tell when the tried from the age of memorbilia. It seems the hospital, Ramey-King Insurance (owned by Aggies), Metzler's, and a couple of others that get the attention. So before you say Denton does not support North Texas, please remember it is a 2 way street.

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We can be Boise but we have to develop one strong foundation before we can be Boise. Boise has had such a strong history of winning at all levels of football and it has developed the foundation that tomorrow if Chris Petersen decides to leave, they probably won't have a problem finding his replacement and continued success.

Norm was right that you have to give fans and alumni a reason to take interest and donate. If we win, they will come. I realize it wasn't capitalized during the Dickey years but I think with the lack of winning the last 6 years look at overall football attendance? They are better than they were during the bowl years. So at this part of the program if we truly start to win and get relevant again then I think we can get a minimum of 25K-30K per game.

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Boise State couldn't even become Boise State in this day and time. Coach selection, scheduling, conference membership, and state/local support all combined at the right time to help them catch lightning in a bottle.

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It's the same way with our basketball program or any other sport. We are one of dozens and dozens of things to do in one of the biggest metropolitian areas in the country. We've got to make ourselves stand out more.

In order to stand out in this market, we have to do something big and unexpected. Fact is, we haven't beaten a top 25 team in 35 YEARS. In every big game we have had since I've been a fan (with a couple of exceptions), we have done exactly what was expected of us. Lay down and get beat like a drum. The two Tech wins were exciting, but they weren't great Tech teams and we didn't follow up with anything to keep the buzz going.

We've all tried to talk NT football at work, and it usually goes something like this:

ME: Good North Texas game last weekend...

Them: Who did you play

ME: Florida International

Them: What are they, a division 2 team?

ME: No, they are in our conference

Them: Oh...great... How 'bout them Cowboys!

We can't create a buzz in this market in our current situation; no one cares about the Sunbelt and there are too many other things to focus on. The games that kill us are the non-conference losses(sorry, a 25 point loss to Clemson is not "playing them even") where we have a chance to step up and beat a recognizable opponent, but fail every time.

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Because Boise supports Boise State. Denton does not support North Texas.

Because there are no other outlets for entertainment in Boise. UNT must compete with the following regional entities for entertainment attention and dollars:

Dallas Cowboys

Dallas Mavericks

Dallas Stars

Texas Rangers

TCU

SMU

Big 12 Schools

Frisco Roughriders

Grand Prarie Airhogs

FC Dallas

The American Airlines Center

The Verizon Theatre

Six Flags

JerryWorld

Lone Star Park

Winstar Casino

Bass Hall

The Meyerson

The Winspear

Texas State Fair

There are so many outlets competing for the discretionary income of the people in and around DFW, you can't compare it to Boise.

That's not to say we can't be successful. But, it is to say this - get real about what we are competing for. We must win. We must have a coach who is more than nice. We need someone who understands this thing has competition on and off the field - all year long.

It's the same way with our basketball program or any other sport. We are one of dozens and dozens of things to do in one of the biggest metropolitian areas in the country. We've got to make ourselves stand out more.

Boise isn't saddled with competition for discretionary income. It just mean our administrators and coaches have to understand the big picture and be willing to work 110% everyday to build this thing.

Boise could do it out of sight of everyone. We are drowned out, literally, by our own surroundings.

Norm was serious as a heart attack about UNT being a Boise type program.

I've been listening to Norm Hitzghes since I transferred from Alvin JUCO to UNT in 1972 and the guy doesn't shoot from the hip when he says what he says.

TFLF, I don't know how many UNT fans are really thinking about any of those other entertainment options 6 or 7 Saturdays out of any Fall, though. I think most our young couples on Fall Saturdays are more involved in their kids soccer during the day or early evenings of football season.

GMG!

Edited by PlummMeanGreen

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I honestly feel that UNT could become what Boise is, the way to start it though is to start winning, i will admit i was not here during the early part of this decade when we were going to bowls so i am not sure how the community supported the teams then, but a winner will always bring out the community support, look at the "rangers" fans that have come out during this playoff run, people like to support a winner, becoming a winner will help bring in more support from the community. In my four years at UNT that i recently finished up i did start to see more UNT support at various locations around town, this all was happening during a bad 4 run stretch on the football field, winning will be the start in changing the culture of Denton

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Lonnie,

As a small business owner, I could argue North Texas does not support Denton. No, I am not talking about the students spending their money with us. But I have tried to get my business involved in the UNT Athletic Department. You meet with them, get promised this and that, and nobody follows up with you. Yes, I have tried to follow up but it is we are busy with golf, softball, etc. I have tried to find out about advertising, sponsoring a morning coffee where the business community could meet the coaches from all the sports, not just men's bb and football. I have asked about signage at the coliseum, sponsoring koozies. I get a yes answer, but nothing after that. I can take you to several businesses around town who have UNT stuff hanging up, as they tried the same thing when they opened. Texas Roadhouse tried and you don't see them. Visit Rudy's, they tried to. You can tell when the tried from the age of memorbilia. It seems the hospital, Ramey-King Insurance (owned by Aggies), Metzler's, and a couple of others that get the attention. So before you say Denton does not support North Texas, please remember it is a 2 way street.

Good point. I did mention that the administrators need to be on point, too. I think that's what you are talking about here.

But, oeverall, you don't get the same kind of vibe for UNT driving into Denton the way you do when you go onto other campuses. We all do because we graduated from here.

There is a hill to climb here that is completely different than Boise State - both inside the school and outside. Since we can't be in an incubator, the way Boise could be for decades, we have to work harder.

Many people here talk about Dodge's dedication, but I mean, really? He never lived here. He always went home to Southlake where he still walks on water. He was, maybe, kind of insulated from the community in that way. Not that he didn't get out, just...he never became part of it.

The new guy has to be here and on it 365 days a year. There's too much other competition in the Metroplex to believe otherwise.

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Good point. I did mention that the administrators need to be on point, too. I think that's what you are talking about here.

But, oeverall, you don't get the same kind of vibe for UNT driving into Denton the way you do when you go onto other campuses. We all do because we graduated from here.

There is a hill to climb here that is completely different than Boise State - both inside the school and outside. Since we can't be in an incubator, the way Boise could be for decades, we have to work harder.

Many people here talk about Dodge's dedication, but I mean, really? He never lived here. He always went home to Southlake where he still walks on water. He was, maybe, kind of insulated from the community in that way. Not that he didn't get out, just...he never became part of it.

The new guy has to be here and on it 365 days a year. There's too much other competition in the Metroplex to believe otherwise.

I had about a 5 minute conversation with coach Dodge and Riley while we were shopping for groceries at the Target in Denton. Though he didn't LIVE in Denton, he was around.

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Boise State couldn't even become Boise State in this day and time. Coach selection, scheduling, conference membership, and state/local support all combined at the right time to help them catch lightning in a bottle.

Jack, most always agree with anything you've ever posted because we tend to think alike concerning UNT and have for decades, but TCU came along much later with their own success (Top 10 ranking & a BCS bowl) than when Boise's success started several years ago as well as about 5 head football coaches ago, too.

Can you show me the differences of those 2 schools and how they got to where they got with the "barriers?" you've listed and their timeline differences of a few years with each of their respective BCS successes?

Addendum: Maybe this link below is why Norm Hitzghes said "North Texas! Be A Boise State!

http://oxblue.com/pro/open/unt/stadium?DB_OEM_ID=1800

GMG!

Edited by PlummMeanGreen
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Lonnie,

As a small business owner, I could argue North Texas does not support Denton. No, I am not talking about the students spending their money with us. But I have tried to get my business involved in the UNT Athletic Department. You meet with them, get promised this and that, and nobody follows up with you. Yes, I have tried to follow up but it is we are busy with golf, softball, etc. I have tried to find out about advertising, sponsoring a morning coffee where the business community could meet the coaches from all the sports, not just men's bb and football. I have asked about signage at the coliseum, sponsoring koozies. I get a yes answer, but nothing after that. I can take you to several businesses around town who have UNT stuff hanging up, as they tried the same thing when they opened. Texas Roadhouse tried and you don't see them. Visit Rudy's, they tried to. You can tell when the tried from the age of memorbilia. It seems the hospital, Ramey-King Insurance (owned by Aggies), Metzler's, and a couple of others that get the attention. So before you say Denton does not support North Texas, please remember it is a 2 way street.

What you mention has definitely been a challenge in the Denton Community for many many years. There has been a "town and gown" gap for as long as I can remember, but, Dozer, do you see it changing a bit for the better these days? I believe I have seen some positive movement along these lines, but as I am not a local small business owner would love your take on the matter.

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Lonnie,

As a small business owner, I could argue North Texas does not support Denton. No, I am not talking about the students spending their money with us. But I have tried to get my business involved in the UNT Athletic Department. You meet with them, get promised this and that, and nobody follows up with you. Yes, I have tried to follow up but it is we are busy with golf, softball, etc. I have tried to find out about advertising, sponsoring a morning coffee where the business community could meet the coaches from all the sports, not just men's bb and football. I have asked about signage at the coliseum, sponsoring koozies. I get a yes answer, but nothing after that. I can take you to several businesses around town who have UNT stuff hanging up, as they tried the same thing when they opened. Texas Roadhouse tried and you don't see them. Visit Rudy's, they tried to. You can tell when the tried from the age of memorbilia. It seems the hospital, Ramey-King Insurance (owned by Aggies), Metzler's, and a couple of others that get the attention. So before you say Denton does not support North Texas, please remember it is a 2 way street.

I can attest to this. In over 15 years of working in the advertising industry, I've evaluated sports sponsorships for Texas, Texas A&M, LSU, Texas Tech, Arkansas, Houston...even Sam Houston State and Stephen F. Austin proposals have come across my desk...but not once have I ever been approached about a sports sponsorship for UNT. These sports proposals find their way to me directly, via sales representatives from the university's marketing department, or indirectly, via the clients I represent (by the university's marketing department contacting them directly). I've represented some pretty big clients, with both a national and local presence, in my career and I must assume that if I'm not being contacted, none of the other large businesses with corporate headquarters in the DFW area are being contacted either.

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So before you say Denton does not support North Texas, please remember it is a 2 way street.

Jeez, I bought a brand new auto in Denton while a student at UNT and my personal tally of Shopping Denton goes way up from that.

I cannot even begin to imagine that the support is anywhere close to equal from my years as a Dentonite but........we've discussed this a few million other times thru the decades, too. :rolleyes: I don't think the winner of this argument necessarily wins anything by being right, either. ;) As Lyndon Johnson used to quote often: "Come, let us reason together" would still be the best policy for Denton and UNT because after all--they stand to benefit from each other in a most dramatic way.

Personally, I am happy for Denton, Texas, America, because they are now getting a true NCAA D1 stadium on their west side near those 2 Texas interstates.

GMG!

Edited by PlummMeanGreen

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Because Boise supports Boise State. Denton does not support North Texas.

Because there are no other outlets for entertainment in Boise. UNT must compete with the following regional entities for entertainment attention and dollars:

Dallas Cowboys

Dallas Mavericks

Dallas Stars

Texas Rangers

TCU

SMU

Big 12 Schools

Frisco Roughriders

Grand Prarie Airhogs

FC Dallas

The American Airlines Center

The Verizon Theatre

Six Flags

JerryWorld

Lone Star Park

Winstar Casino

Bass Hall

The Meyerson

The Winspear

Texas State Fair

There are so many outlets competing for the discretionary income of the people in and around DFW, you can't compare it to Boise.

That's not to say we can't be successful. But, it is to say this - get real about what we are competing for. We must win. We must have a coach who is more than nice. We need someone who understands this thing has competition on and off the field - all year long.

It's the same way with our basketball program or any other sport. We are one of dozens and dozens of things to do in one of the biggest metropolitian areas in the country. We've got to make ourselves stand out more.

Boise isn't saddled with competition for discretionary income. It just mean our administrators and coaches have to understand the big picture and be willing to work 110% everyday to build this thing.

Boise could do it out of sight of everyone. We are drowned out, literally, by our own surroundings.

True, but you also got to consider that we have a gazillionbillion more people in the metroplex than there are in Boise, Wyoming. Hell, 24K showed for the home opener of an 0-1 football team with a 5-34 record the previous 3 years. What has prevented a Boise like transformation is the Athletic Department, plain and simple. The wrong hire of a football coach, not returning phone calls when people are trying to spend their money with UNT athletics, and just plain disorganization in general. I say these things because they are just simply facts, not out of ill will toward anyone there.

Still, 24k come for this years home opener. Imagine if, by stroke of luck or great decision making, we hire a coach that turns this thing around and posts winning records and, most importantly, scores a big OOC win against a name opponent that turns some heads. Do this, and everything can be corrected. Bring in the wrong guy (read: Bower) and this university may never recover.

This is completely on you, RV.

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True, but you also got to consider that we have a gazillionbillion more people in the metroplex than there are in Boise, Wyoming. Hell, 24K showed for the home opener of an 0-1 football team with a 5-34 record the previous 3 years. What has prevented a Boise like transformation is the Athletic Department, plain and simple. The wrong hire of a football coach, not returning phone calls when people are trying to spend their money with UNT athletics, and just plain disorganization in general. I say these things because they are just simply facts, not out of ill will toward anyone there.

Still, 24k come for this years home opener. Imagine if, by stroke of luck or great decision making, we hire a coach that turns this thing around and posts winning records and, most importantly, scores a big OOC win against a name opponent that turns some heads. Do this, and everything can be corrected. Bring in the wrong guy (read: Bower) and this university may never recover.

This is completely on you, RV.

Bring in a true name coach, UNT90, and you have a sellout because even the most curious would then come to the UH game. I really believe that. And you are right on when you posted this: Bring in the wrong guy (read: Bower) and this university may never recover.

GMG!

GMG!

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Good point. I did mention that the administrators need to be on point, too. I think that's what you are talking about here.

But, oeverall, you don't get the same kind of vibe for UNT driving into Denton the way you do when you go onto other campuses. We all do because we graduated from here.

There is a hill to climb here that is completely different than Boise State - both inside the school and outside. Since we can't be in an incubator, the way Boise could be for decades, we have to work harder.

Many people here talk about Dodge's dedication, but I mean, really? He never lived here. He always went home to Southlake where he still walks on water. He was, maybe, kind of insulated from the community in that way. Not that he didn't get out, just...he never became part of it.

The new guy has to be here and on it 365 days a year. There's too much other competition in the Metroplex to believe otherwise.

We agree. But let me also add that had Dodge come from Lake Dallas or Lewisville to UNT, the perception of him not being part of the community would not be an issue, even though his reasoning for living in Southlake was so his daughter could finish out high school. I don't blame him for that. Being the daughter of a successful high school coach and the little sister of the star quarterback, she probably felt a little lost in the shadows. I think it is the least they could have done for her by letting her finish school with her friends. It is the word "Southlake" that alienated Dodge in my opinion.

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What you mention has definitely been a challenge in the Denton Community for many many years. There has been a "town and gown" gap for as long as I can remember, but, Dozer, do you see it changing a bit for the better these days? I believe I have seen some positive movement along these lines, but as I am not a local small business owner would love your take on the matter.

It is like this. In talking with a fund raiser the other day in our athletic department, he said yes we have lost members in the Mean Green Club, but have picked up new ones. However, that does not increase membership, it stays level. Same with businesses, and with Denton's growth over the last several years, the first marketing decision is to cater to the universities. So you think you see more because you see the new ones try (i.e. Fuzzy's, Rooster's, etc.) But there is not really any growth because others like Rudy's, Frilley's, and Texas Roadhouse have cut way back or are not participating at all. You see the memorbilia (some from our Div II days), but you don't see them catering on the deck, in the Mean Green room, on the signage as they once were, nor advertising in the programs.

Edited by Green Dozer

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The talk of Denton not supporting NT is true to a degree, but more than anything, our marketing is just awful. I don't know if that's due to the people in place (although that would be my guess) or funding or both. The hugest thing I've seen in the past few years was lining Carroll with MG banners. Outside of that, an out of town visitor who knew nothing about Denton would be hard pressed to know that the fourth largest university in the state is within walking distance without driving past it.

Edited by ColoradoEagle
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Lonnie,

As a small business owner, I could argue North Texas does not support Denton. No, I am not talking about the students spending their money with us. But I have tried to get my business involved in the UNT Athletic Department. You meet with them, get promised this and that, and nobody follows up with you. Yes, I have tried to follow up but it is we are busy with golf, softball, etc. I have tried to find out about advertising, sponsoring a morning coffee where the business community could meet the coaches from all the sports, not just men's bb and football. I have asked about signage at the coliseum, sponsoring koozies. I get a yes answer, but nothing after that. I can take you to several businesses around town who have UNT stuff hanging up, as they tried the same thing when they opened. Texas Roadhouse tried and you don't see them. Visit Rudy's, they tried to. You can tell when the tried from the age of memorbilia. It seems the hospital, Ramey-King Insurance (owned by Aggies), Metzler's, and a couple of others that get the attention. So before you say Denton does not support North Texas, please remember it is a 2 way street.

Green Dozer,

I apo;ogize if we have treated you that way. Please contact me directrly so I ca check into this. Thanks.

RV

Edited by Glad To Be Green

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That is changing. Our new president is working right now to provide resources (it is not the athletic department failing to do it as we have limited funding) to do more in the next year. Signs, billboards,etc. will start to pop up soon pushing athletics and not just numbers. As I said last night we will use the resources to do a better job. In this market it is tougher than most. We have no local TV or radio station that provides much more than game exposure and trying to buy that time in Dallas is impossible. Ask SMU and TCU. They're not able to do it either (i.e. the failure of the Pony Up promotion) because financially you can't sustain it. But in Fort Worth (and it has a lot to do with winning) everyone has gone purple from the city to the general publi and business community. We just have to be positive and continue to ask everyone to promote all the time.

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True, but you also got to consider that we have a gazillionbillion more people in the metroplex than there are in Boise, Wyoming. Hell, 24K showed for the home opener of an 0-1 football team with a 5-34 record the previous 3 years. What has prevented a Boise like transformation is the Athletic Department, plain and simple. The wrong hire of a football coach, not returning phone calls when people are trying to spend their money with UNT athletics, and just plain disorganization in general. I say these things because they are just simply facts, not out of ill will toward anyone there.

Still, 24k come for this years home opener. Imagine if, by stroke of luck or great decision making, we hire a coach that turns this thing around and posts winning records and, most importantly, scores a big OOC win against a name opponent that turns some heads. Do this, and everything can be corrected. Bring in the wrong guy (read: Bower) and this university may never recover.

This is completely on you, RV.

How many people are in Boise, Wyoming and what has that got to do with the discussion?

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and this university may never recover.

Can we hold the hyperbole until I'm in the parking lot shamelessly stealing your beer again? As in, your beer supply may never recover from my presence, or the condition of the porta potties may never recover from the UNT tailgate?

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How many people are in Boise, Wyoming and what has that got to do with the discussion?

Didn't know Boise had moved.

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