A Little Psychoanalysis

[rcade]

Yes, a "business" of educating young men for life. Having a coach who will pull the team together (as Dodge will) after losing two QBs in as many games and facing that adversity together, will help them later in life. We always grow more from our losses that our victories.

That's a great motto for Dodge's team: "We always grow more from our losses than our victories." They should put it on a sign above the tunnel when the team comes out.

[forevereagle]

Yes, a "business" of educating young men for life. Having a coach who will pull the team together (as Dodge will) after losing two QBs in as many games and facing that adversity together, will help them later in life. We always grow more from our losses that our victories. Dodge is man enough to understand that for them and to help give that understanding to them. That is what I mean when he is a class-act.

So it would be ok if the program lost money? Business cannot have a positive outcome? We shouldn't care about performance as long as as we feel good? What are you trying to say?

[the real grad88]

Question.

Would you be happy if we just played FCS football? If winning doesn't matter, then why not just drop down to the FBS level and save a little money?

Did you ever stop and think of the effect this constant losing has on the players in this program? Do you foolishly think that they are OK with losing, also? Don't you think they deserve to have the best chance to be successful on the football field? A chance they have not gotten for 4 years now?

I think you are naive, not to mention self centered, for not realizing the effect that constant losing has on people far more important than the average fan.

Yes, and Dodge is that man. Dodge can recruit in Texas like most coaches who would come to NT cannot. If I were a parent, I would rather have Dodge sitting in my living room over many, many other coaches because I know that my son is going to be treated with respect and that he will demand respect from the players. I know that he will be a true student athlete and not just used and thrown away when misfortune or injury happens. I want to see Dodge get the chance to recruit in Texas with this new football stadium. I hope he gets that chance.

[UNT90]

Yes, a "business" of educating young men for life. Having a coach who will pull the team together (as Dodge will) after losing two QBs in as many games and facing that adversity together, will help them later in life. We always grow more from our losses that our victories. Dodge is man enough to understand that for them and to help give that understanding to them. That is what I mean when he is a class-act.

Life isn't a movie on the Oxygen Network.

Grow up

[KingDL1]

Yes, a "business" of educating young men for life. Having a coach who will pull the team together (as Dodge will) after losing two QBs in as many games and facing that adversity together, will help them later in life. We always grow more from our losses that our victories. Dodge is man enough to understand that for them and to help give that understanding to them. That is what I mean when he is a class-act.

You really live in your own special little world don't you.

I like Dodge and think he is a class act, but Football is about winning, making MONEY, and being one of Gateways the nation can see your school. This includes bringing in donations for endowments, its been shown winning and donations go hand and hand.

I have been to Fouts when there were just a couple thousand people there it sucks. We keep Dodge and this idea that winning does not matter and we will be back to that sooner then later.

[rcade]

Yes, and Dodge is that man. Dodge can recruit in Texas like most coaches who would come to NT cannot.

You sound exactly like you did when Dodge was named. It's like the last four years never happened and results don't matter at all.

Dodge hasn't recruited well. His teams have never equaled, much less surpassed, the season that got Dickey fired.

[forevereagle]

Yes, and Dodge is that man. Dodge can recruit in Texas like most coaches who would come to NT cannot. If I were a parent, I would rather have Dodge sitting in my living room over many, many other coaches because I know that my son is going to be treated with respect and that he will demand respect from the players. I know that he will be a true student athlete and not just used and thrown away when misfortune or injury happens. I want to see Dodge get the chance to recruit in Texas with this new football stadium. I hope he gets that chance.

What makes you say that? Overwhelming evidence says you a damn fool.

[CMJ]

How bad does it have to get to be before Dodge can go grad88? Three straight 0-12 seasons?

[UNTFan23]

SOME of you on this board need to understand something about yourselves. SOME of you have an inferiority complex, and you don't know it...which is a part of the complex. SOME of you really get your swagger from how your team wins...or not. Someone said on another post, "I am a winner and I only associate with winners." My response is: Go jump on the UT bandwagon then. Do some of you really get embarrassed at work if we lose? When some college football "fan" ribs me for being a North Texas grad, I just say, "I am proud do be from a school that has a coach in which the players are true student athletes and the program is conducted with class....we will be winning soon...it's only a matter of time." Some need to take a break from all of this and get a handle on things.

[Harry]

Greatness HOF quality response!!!LOL!!! If we could just photoshop a UNT shirt on Al!!!!!

[Rudy]

Too funny. That's good, I have to admit that. Let me see if I can say it the way I feel it when I think of North Texas and the idea of a fan and such. A fan is someone who jumps on the bandwagon to be associated with a "winner". For me, that is most appropriate for the NFL...or for a few college teams in the national spot light. I am a "fan" of UT in the sense that I am from Texas and want them to win. North Texas is different. UNT is MY SCHOOL. It is the reason for my career and rising out of poverty and giving my children possibilities that I never had. I am proud of my school and my team. I am proud that my school (and the program) is a school of honor and integrity. I am proud that we are not a "football factory" and don't want to be. I am proud when we win, but I don't NEED a group of 18-21 year olds to win for me to know I am a winner and that my school is a winner and that those student athletes are winners. I WANT us to win on the field...but as I said earlier, it is not the MOST IMPORTANT thing.

So, basically you are telling us that you are NOT a fan of NT athletics?

[houstonmeangreen]

SOME of us actually went to the Army game. SOME of us actually witnessed this team give up. SOME of us watched the confusion from the coaches (wasting precious time before calling time out at the end of the second quarter...NOT going for it on 4th and 1 at the 45 yard line???, etc.). SOME of us noticed the look of despair and utter defeat on the players' faces BEFORE the game even started (and, of course, Army marched it right down for a TD to start the game).

SOME of us were HEARTBROKEN to witness the frustration from Lance Dunbar because the coaches were too inept to call a play in...then wasted a good 18 precious seconds before calling that timeout. Lance Dunbar plays with heart...to witness the frustration when he came off to the sidelines was sickening to me. Broke my heart.....

SOME of us were not proud...and I would be remiss to totally excuse the effort (or, lack thereof)....coaching (or, lack thereof)...and the fact that we looked like we did not even show up.

No offense to Army (I cannot say anything bad about the Army or USMA as my father was in the Army for 26 years)...but it is not as if they are a perennially Top 25 team. BUT...they absolutely CRUSHED this team.

SOME of us are realistic. SOME of us realize the futility of this season. SOME of us realize the best course of action would be to cut our losses and move on to a new regime.

ditto.....this is not news...it is mostly the status quo...just worse now....contrast UNT with say TxTech, Houston, etc...and you can see how bad everyting is at unt...the team, marketing,media mgmt,etc...bad.

[Rudy]

I give what I can. I am not a wealthy man and I have kids that need it more right now. Is it really any of your business? Does the fact that you give large amounts of money give you more of a voice? Does the size of your donation give you the size of your voice in the program? I hope not. Are you giving so that you can have a "winner"? Or, are you giving to support scholarships of student athletes? If I had BIG money, I would have a tough time getting my money involved with college athletics today because it is so dominated by people who have the attitude that apparently you share.

You didnt answer his question. Do you have season tickets? Hell, do you even go to any games, or do you listen on the radio and say,"Golly gee, I'm glad our coaches are molding these boys into young men."

[cdizzle86]

You didnt answer his question. Do you have season tickets? Hell, do you even go to any games, or do you listen on the radio and say,"Golly gee, I'm glad our coaches are molding these boys into young men."

Different poster. Same ole crap.

[jimbob]

SOME of us actually went to the Army game. SOME of us actually witnessed this team give up. SOME of us watched the confusion from the coaches (wasting precious time before calling time out at the end of the second quarter...NOT going for it on 4th and 1 at the 45 yard line???, etc.). SOME of us noticed the look of despair and utter defeat on the players' faces BEFORE the game even started (and, of course, Army marched it right down for a TD to start the game).

SOME of us were HEARTBROKEN to witness the frustration from Lance Dunbar because the coaches were too inept to call a play in...then wasted a good 18 precious seconds before calling that timeout. Lance Dunbar plays with heart...to witness the frustration when he came off to the sidelines was sickening to me. Broke my heart.....

SOME of us were not proud...and I would be remiss to totally excuse the effort (or, lack thereof)....coaching (or, lack thereof)...and the fact that we looked like we did not even show up.

No offense to Army (I cannot say anything bad about the Army or USMA as my father was in the Army for 26 years)...but it is not as if they are a perennially Top 25 team. BUT...they absolutely CRUSHED this team.

SOME of us are realistic. SOME of us realize the futility of this season. SOME of us realize the best course of action would be to cut our losses and move on to a new regime.

This post describes the symptoms of a poorly run program.

What happens now?: Coaching is weak; they blame the players; players start losing faith in coaching; players start playing only for themselves; team dissolves; coaching is changed out after destroying program; new coaching gets a bye on first 2 years; new stadium means very little.

Let's get a jump on this process.

[the real grad88]

You didnt answer his question. Do you have season tickets? Hell, do you even go to any games, or do you listen on the radio and say,"Golly gee, I'm glad our coaches are molding these boys into young men."

Yes, I go to the games. I make it a point not to sit beside the "donors" who think they have bought a piece of the team and act like classless fools making comments all throughout the game...ruining the great time I am having there. Yes, I do go to the games. If you are a "donor" and do not fit the above description, my apologies.

[Rudy]

What do you guys think about all chipping in and buying all the coaches and players participation trophies after this winless season? They could read,"Nicest and politest loser in all of D1."

That would violate NCAA policy, which would negates 88's policy in running a clean program. Speaking of, bow is he a "fan" of t.u. when they are dirty? I guess it's cause they haven't been caught yet.

[CaribbeanGreen]

Yes, I go to the games. I make it a point not to sit beside the "donors" who think they have bought a piece of the team and act like classless fools making comments all throughout the game...ruining the great time I am having there. Yes, I do go to the games. If you are a "donor" and do not fit the above description, my apologies.

How do you identify said donors and purchase the appropriate tickets that take you away from them?? Sounds like an elaborate and top secret process!

[Rudy]

Yes, I go to the games. I make it a point not to sit beside the "donors" who think they have bought a piece of the team and act like classless fools making comments all throughout the game...ruining the great time I am having there. Yes, I do go to the games. If you are a "donor" and do not fit the above description, my apologies.

I don't make classless comments during the game, but I do feel, like many, that I have bought a piece of the team witb my tuition, years supporting the school, years promoting the school, and years of going to games. I do give as much money to the program as I can because it takes money to build a successful program.

I don't think anyone is saying that you are only a fan if you give so much money or people who give more are better fans. It's just how can someone judge if they don't give anything.

[MeanMag]

Just so you know, the athletic program at unt IS a business.

The athletic program at UNT is a marketing tool for the university. At some schools, it's a money maker. But not here. If the athletic dept. at UNT were run like a real business, we'd have been operating at loss for a very, very long time and if Dodges performance was graded like our performance at our jobs, then anything less than 1 loss a season is a fire-able offense.

In the business world, customers don't simply hand over money without expecting some kind of value in return. If your return on investment is expected to be paid out in wins, then I'm okay with that. Just know that there are only 60 teams that win every Saturday. 720 wins and 720 losses a season to hand out, that market can't grow and contract in a given year. I wouldn't really want to invest in that environment. Dodges record is atrocious in the football world. In fact, if you put the athletic performance at UNT into perspective, and you planned to invest money into it to get wins out of it, your money is better spent else where. EX: UT/OU/FL/Ohio St/USC.

Please don't leave though. Those schools have enough money and enough fans who don't give anything. If the goal is to give money because you are proud of our school, then please continue to give. There is a lot to be proud of. Most of all our fans. I had the pleasure or displeasure of going to OU this weekend with the MRS. to see OU play AF. The lack of intelligence and humbleness of that fan base is atrocious. Making jokes out of injured players and in general, not giving a crap about other fans is just crazy. They are entitled to win every week. The fans are smug and rude. Go over to TCU and talk to their fans. They understand what it means to lose and win, because their team comes from humble beginnings.

I'm not making excuses for Dodge. His record is pathetic. If we haven't started winning by this time, he's never going to do it and I believe it might already be too late to save his job. And rightly so. However, the historical data shows increasing interest and fan support. So, if this were a business, he'd be doing well right? There has to be another reason for this other than Todd Dodges win/loss record, right? I'm being serious... How is our fan base growing?

For what it's worth, I really think R.V. already has or is getting very close to having a short list.

Edited September 19, 2010 by MeanMag

[the real grad88]

The athletic program at UNT is a marketing tool for the university. At some schools, it's a money maker. But not here. If the athletic dept. at UNT were run like a real business, we'd have been operating at loss for a very, very long time and if Dodges performance was graded like our performance at our jobs, then anything less than 1 loss a season is a fire-able offense.

In the business world, customers don't simply hand over money without expecting some kind of value in return. If your return on investment is expected to be paid out in wins, then I'm okay with that. Just know that there are only 60 teams that win every Saturday. 720 wins and 720 losses a season to hand out, that market can't grow and contract in a given year. I wouldn't really want to invest in that environment. Dodges record is atrocious in the football world. In fact, if you put the athletic performance at UNT into perspective, and you planned to invest money into it to get wins out of it, your money is better spent else where. EX: UT/OU/FL/Ohio St/USC.

Please don't leave though. Those schools have enough money and enough fans who don't give anything. If the goal is to give money because you are proud of our school, then please continue to give. There is a lot to be proud of. Most of all our fans. I had the pleasure or displeasure of going to OU this weekend with the MRS. to see OU play AF. The lack of intelligence and humbleness of that fan base is atrocious. Making jokes out of injured players and in general, not giving a crap about other fans is just crazy. They are entitled to win every week. The fans are smug and rude. Go over to TCU and talk to their fans. They understand what it means to lose and win, because their team comes from humble beginnings.

I'm not making excuses for Dodge. His record is pathetic. If we haven't started winning by this time, he's never going to do it and I believe it might already be too late to save his job. And rightly so. However, the historical data shows increasing interest and fan support. So, if this were a business, he'd be doing well right? There has to be another reason for this other than Todd Dodges win/loss record, right? I'm being serious... How is our fan base growing?

For what it's worth, I really think R.V. already has or is getting very close to having a short list.

Though we have a different opinion about Dodge and the timing of it, I do like your attitude.

[eulesseagle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqWjTda_0S0&feature=fvw

[Green Mean]

SOME of you on this board need to understand something about yourselves. SOME of you have an inferiority complex, and you don't know it...which is a part of the complex. SOME of you really get your swagger from how your team wins...or not. Someone said on another post, "I am a winner and I only associate with winners." My response is: Go jump on the UT bandwagon then. Do some of you really get embarrassed at work if we lose? When some college football "fan" ribs me for being a North Texas grad, I just say, "I am proud do be from a school that has a coach in which the players are true student athletes and the program is conducted with class....we will be winning soon...it's only a matter of time." Some need to take a break from all of this and get a handle on things.

Wrong.

[Travis]

The athletic program at UNT is a marketing tool for the university. At some schools, it's a money maker. But not here. If the athletic dept. at UNT were run like a real business, we'd have been operating at loss for a very, very long time and if Dodges performance was graded like our performance at our jobs, then anything less than 1 loss a season is a fire-able offense.

In the business world, customers don't simply hand over money without expecting some kind of value in return. If your return on investment is expected to be paid out in wins, then I'm okay with that. Just know that there are only 60 teams that win every Saturday. 720 wins and 720 losses a season to hand out, that market can't grow and contract in a given year. I wouldn't really want to invest in that environment. Dodges record is atrocious in the football world. In fact, if you put the athletic performance at UNT into perspective, and you planned to invest money into it to get wins out of it, your money is better spent else where. EX: UT/OU/FL/Ohio St/USC.

Please don't leave though. Those schools have enough money and enough fans who don't give anything. If the goal is to give money because you are proud of our school, then please continue to give. There is a lot to be proud of. Most of all our fans. I had the pleasure or displeasure of going to OU this weekend with the MRS. to see OU play AF. The lack of intelligence and humbleness of that fan base is atrocious. Making jokes out of injured players and in general, not giving a crap about other fans is just crazy. They are entitled to win every week. The fans are smug and rude. Go over to TCU and talk to their fans. They understand what it means to lose and win, because their team comes from humble beginnings.

I'm not making excuses for Dodge. His record is pathetic. If we haven't started winning by this time, he's never going to do it and I believe it might already be too late to save his job. And rightly so. However, the historical data shows increasing interest and fan support. So, if this were a business, he'd be doing well right? There has to be another reason for this other than Todd Dodges win/loss record, right? I'm being serious... How is our fan base growing?

For what it's worth, I really think R.V. already has or is getting very close to having a short list.

I don't know if your reply was saying that it isn't a business or not. I am assuming you are saying it is not. If so, you are wrong. It is still a business. They run it with a business model. They have to raise their own money for scholarships, facilities, services, they even have to take out loans from the school if they need more money (athletic center), etc. They have a service model to grow their clientele. The only difference in this is that we have a dedicated student fee that gives them more money. Regardless, it is still a business that is seeking money to support itself in revenue through contracts, donors, sponsors, and services.

Unless I misunderstand you... Your argument is wrong on several points too. First, you assume that all FBS plays each other. Which they don't as we play lower level, therefore it is not necessarily an even split of wins/losses. I am confused by your first paragraph. Do you mean anything MORE than a one loss season is a fireable offense? Regardless, a one loss, two loss, or three loss even in the business sense is not a fire-able offense. Just look at the NFL. Third, it is widely known that practically all (even the big teams, some of which you mentioned, are often in the red). It doesn't mean they aren't a business. The organization sees it as a necessary loss for the good of the school.

Just because we aren't getting all the wins and losses... doesn't mean the overall product isn't there. Our program has a steady rise in average attendance due to several factors like RV changing the game day experience, a steady growth in our student population (we have went up 13000 students over the passed decade), i also think a spread offense is just more fun to watch to the general public then the smashmouth-run first offense Dickey pulled out. I think there are many things that you need to take in account for our fan base. Then consider what it could be like if we actually had a decent program to compliment it.

Edited September 19, 2010 by Travis

[shaft]

The "their great kids" and "he's a good guy" defense of Dodge is a bit shallow.

What school doesn't have real student athletes? What coach doesn't have integrity?