Defensive Historical Contrasts.

[FirefightnRick]

It's arguable that any coaches' most difficult year is his first when he takes over with someone elses players even though that's not always been the case here at North Texas.

Offensively, the conversion Coaches Dodge and Ford have pulled off in this first year is near miraculous when you think about what they have done with such a run-first, grind it out oriented offense over to a pass first offense and the success they've had against several experienced college defensive coordinators, especially against SMU's Phil Bennett and Jim Gush and Navy's Buddy Green. But what about this years defense and how it compares to other defenses that faced similar changes in our past? Below is a rundown of results of the first year in every coaching change since 1913. I realize there were DC's under the head coaches, and at times those would change under the same head coaches, but I only have the head coaches and very few of the Defensive Coordinators names so please fill in any of the names you may remember as I would love to give credit where it is due for thsoe who were able to overcome the obsticles while taking over with someone elses players.

1913

J.W. Pender

Played one game against TCU in a 0-13 loss.

1915

J.W. St. Clair

In 5 games with Penders' players his defense gave up 6 points total, or 1.2 points per game.

1920

Theron J. Fouts

In coach Fouts' first year with St. Clair's players his defenses gave up an average of 5.5 points per game.

1925

John B. Reid

With Fouts' players his defense gave up 12.1 points per game.

1929

Jack Sisco

With Reid's players his defense gave up 8.4 points per game.

1942

Loyd Russell

With Sisco's players, who won the Lone Star Conference a year before with a 7-1 record, his defense gave up 14.7 points per game.

1946

Odus Mitchell

Coach Mitchell had to start from scratch I assume due to WWII, maybe someone else can explain more on this but we didn't field a team for the '43, '44 and '45 seasons. But his first year defense gave up

9.2 yards per game, won the Lone Star Conference and beat Pacific in the '46 Optimist Bowl.

1967

Rod Rust

Taking over with Coach Mitchell's players who had won the Missouri Valley the year before, Coach Rust' defense gave up 13.8 points per game. This era was I believe when many of our passing records would be set for those of you who believe a quick strike, passing game stresses out the defense that much more, forcing them to give up more points than usual.

1973

Hayden Fry

Taking over Coach Rusts' players who finished 1-10 the year before, Coach Fry's defense gave up 22.1 points per game and won the MVC with a 5-5-1 record.

1979

Jerry Moore

Taking over a Fry coached 9-2 team Coach Moore's defense gave up 21.4 yards per game and finished the season 5-6.

1981

Bob Tyler

Taking over for a Moore coached 6-5 team Tyler's defense gave up 21.4 points per game.

1982

Corky Nelson

Taking over a Tyler coached 2-9 team, Coach Nelson, and I believe Coach Chuck Mills may have been his DC?(anyone remember?), Nelson's defense gave up 25.7 points per game.

1991

Dennis Parker

Taking over for a Nelson coached 6-5 team, coach Parker's defense gave up 29.7 points per game.

1994

Matt Simon

Taking over for a 4-7 Parker team, Simmon's defense gave up 21.8 points per game.

1998

Darrell Dickey

Taking over for a 4-7 Simmon team, Dickey's defense coached by Gary DeLoach gave up 27 points per game.

***********

2007

Todd Dodge

Taking over for a 3-9 Dickey team, whose defense would return 17 starters including 9 of the 11 who started the final 3 games of the '06 season and who ranked 64th nationally giving up 25.3 points per game, now coached by DC Ron Mendoza, after the 9th game this season his defense is giving up 49.6 points per game.

***********

After the '04 season which saw a significant drop off in production by the defense, Dickey's LB coach Kenny Evans took over as Defensive Coordinator for that season only. Even though the '05 defense would become statistically one of the worst of the Dickey era they would start that year as the 3rd youngest defense in the nation, yet would only surrender 31.5 points per game that season. If there was ever an excuse of "Level of Talent" as to why they did so poorly I would have to say this is one of them because of the youth on that squad, even though I will never forget the great effort they gave to get that first win in Murfreesboro to start the season.

Rick

Edited November 12, 2007 by FirefightnRick

[island eagle]

It's arguable that any coaches' most difficult year is his first when he takes over with someone elses players even though that's not always been the case here at North Texas.

Offensively, the conversion Coaches Dodge and Ford have pulled off in this first year is near miraculous when you think about what they have done with such a run-first, grind it out oriented offense over to a pass first offense and the success they've had against several experienced college defensive coordinators, especially against SMU's Phil Bennett and Jim Gush and Navy's Buddy Green. But what about this years defense and how it compares to other defenses that faced similar changes in our past? Below is a rundown of results of the first year in every coaching change since 1913. I realize there were DC's under the head coaches, and at times those would change under the same head coaches, but I only have the head coaches and very few of the Defensive Coordinators names so please fill in any of the names you may remember as I would love to give credit where it is due for thsoe who were able to overcome the obsticles while taking over with someone elses players.

1913

J.W. Pender

Played one game against TCU in a 0-13 loss.

1915

J.W. St. Clair

In 5 games with Penders' players his defense gave up 6 points total, or 1.2 points per game.

1920

Theron J. Fouts

In coach Fouts' first year with St. Clair's players his defenses gave up an average of 5.5 points per game.

1925

John B. Reid

With Fouts' players his defense gave up 12.1 points per game.

1929

Jack Sisco

With Reid's players his defense gave up 8.4 points per game.

1942

Loyd Russell

With Sisco's players, who won the Lone Star Conference a year before with a 7-1 record, his defense gave up 14.7 points per game.

1946

Odus Mitchell

Coach Mitchell had to start from scratch I assume due to WWII, maybe someone else can explain more on this but we didn't field a team for the '43, '44 and '45 seasons. But his first year defense gave up

9.2 yards per game, won the Lone Star Conference and beat Pacific in the '46 Optimist Bowl.

1967

Rod Rust

Taking over with Coach Mitchell's players who had won the Missouri Valley the year before, Coach Rust' defense gave up 13.8 points per game. This era was I believe when many of our passing records would be set for those of you who believe a quick strike, passing game stresses out the defense that much more, forcing them to give up more points than usual.

1973

Hayden Fry

Taking over Coach Rusts' players who finished 1-10 the year before, Coach Fry's defense gave up 22.1 points per game and won the MVC with a 5-5-1 record.

1979

Jerry Moore

Taking over a Fry coached 9-2 team Coach Moore's defense gave up 21.4 yards per game and finished the season 5-6.

1981

Bob Tyler

Taking over for a Moore coached 6-5 team Tyler's defense gave up 21.4 points per game.

1982

Corky Nelson

Taking over a Tyler coached 2-9 team, Coach Nelson, and I believe Coach Chuck Mills may have been his DC?(anyone remember?), Nelson's defense gave up 25.7 points per game.

1991

Dennis Parker

Taking over for a Nelson coached 6-5 team, coach Parker's defense gave up 29.7 points per game.

1994

Matt Simon

Taking over for a 4-7 Parker team, Simmon's defense gave up 21.8 points per game.

1998

Darrell Dickey

Taking over for a 4-7 Simmon team, Dickey's defense coached by Gary DeLoach gave up 27 points per game.

***********

2007

Todd Dodge

Taking over for a 3-9 Dickey team, whose defense would return 17 starters including 9 of the 11 who started the final 3 games of the '06 season and who ranked 64th nationally giving up 25.3 points per game, now coached by DC Ron Mendoza, after the 9th game this season his defense is giving up 49.6 points per game.

***********

After the '04 season which saw a significant drop off in production by the defense, Dickey's LB coach Kenny Evans took over as Defensive Coordinator for that season only. Even though the '05 defense would become statistically one of the worst of the Dickey era they would start that year as the 3rd youngest defense in the nation, yet would only surrender 31.5 points per game that season. If there was ever an excuse of "Level of Talent" as to why they did so poorly I would have to say this is one of them because of the youth on that squad, even though I will never forget the great effort they gave to get that first win in Murfreesboro to start the season.

Rick

Rick,

Don't try logic on this board. There appear to be some people who will excuse having the worst defense in the country with 9 returning starters.

News alert: It isn't the personnel! I wear green glasses, but for heaven's sake, I don't believe in drinking sake and flying on kamikaze missions.

[yyz28]

Don't confuse us with things like Facts...

Nice post, Rick!

[eagle37]

1982

Corky Nelson

Taking over a Tyler coached 2-9 team, Coach Nelson, and I believe Coach Chuck Mills may have been his DC?(anyone remember?), Nelson's defense gave up 25.7 points per game.

It was Chucky and then Bob Finklea as DC's through that era. We were drilled and trained to go after anything that moved on the field. Those were the toughest and meanest defenses that i have ever been apart of. I believe that we had at least two or three shutouts in '88.

My dad came to the game this time. He was a DC for a long time in Texas back in the '70's and knew all too well what was going on. The problem with the offense that Navy was running is that alot of these coaches and espicially players have never seen the option run, because it is basically extinct. The DE's were not stringing the QB out, so that the pursuit could catch up to the ball, the free safeties were no where around to take the pitch man or fill the alley and the MLB was no where around to fill the A gap and stop the dive back. The key to the option is keeping the ball on the line of scrimmage as long as possible in order for the pursuit to catch up from the back side. Once that happens you have everyone trapped.

You have to give it to Navy they could block and were very disciplined. If you noticed they all cut blocked on the line of scrimmage. This knocked the defensive line down and out of the play. The QB was an awesome option QB. I thought I was watching some of the old wishbone offenses from UT and OU.

[SilverEagle]

1982

Corky Nelson

Taking over a Tyler coached 2-9 team, Coach Nelson, and I believe Coach Chuck Mills may have been his DC?(anyone remember?), Nelson's defense gave up 25.7 points per game.

It was Chucky and then Bob Finklea as DC's through that era. We were drilled and trained to go after anything that moved on the field. Those were the toughest and meanest defenses that i have ever been apart of. I believe that we had at least two or three shutouts in '88.

My dad came to the game this time. He was a DC for a long time in Texas back in the '70's and knew all too well what was going on. The problem with the offense that Navy was running is that alot of these coaches and espicially players have never seen the option run, because it is basically extinct. The DE's were not stringing the QB out, so that the pursuit could catch up to the ball, the free safeties were no where around to take the pitch man or fill the alley and the MLB was no where around to fill the A gap and stop the dive back. The key to the option is keeping the ball on the line of scrimmage as long as possible in order for the pursuit to catch up from the back side. Once that happens you have everyone trapped.

You have to give it to Navy they could block and were very disciplined. If you noticed they all cut blocked on the line of scrimmage. This knocked the defensive line down and out of the play. The QB was an awesome option QB. I thought I was watching some of the old wishbone offenses from UT and OU.

Corky (and his DC's) definitely put the "Mean" in the "Mean Green". Damn! I miss those defenses. The best example of "hitting anything that moves" was the 86 TCU game. I used to work around a former TCU player from that era. He used to point out that TCU gave up 6 turnovers in that game, and I used to point out to him that TCU gave us nothing.......WE KNOCKED THE HELL OUT OF THEM THE WHOLE GAME!

[greenminer]

I miss this.

[KingDL1]

It's arguable that any coaches' most difficult year is his first when he takes over with someone elses players even though that's not always been the case here at North Texas.

Offensively, the conversion Coaches Dodge and Ford have pulled off in this first year is near miraculous when you think about what they have done with such a run-first, grind it out oriented offense over to a pass first offense and the success they've had against several experienced college defensive coordinators, especially against SMU's Phil Bennett and Jim Gush and Navy's Buddy Green. But what about this years defense and how it compares to other defenses that faced similar changes in our past? Below is a rundown of results of the first year in every coaching change since 1913. I realize there were DC's under the head coaches, and at times those would change under the same head coaches, but I only have the head coaches and very few of the Defensive Coordinators names so please fill in any of the names you may remember as I would love to give credit where it is due for thsoe who were able to overcome the obsticles while taking over with someone elses players.

1913

J.W. Pender

Played one game against TCU in a 0-13 loss.

1915

J.W. St. Clair

In 5 games with Penders' players his defense gave up 6 points total, or 1.2 points per game.

1920

Theron J. Fouts

In coach Fouts' first year with St. Clair's players his defenses gave up an average of 5.5 points per game.

1925

John B. Reid

With Fouts' players his defense gave up 12.1 points per game.

1929

Jack Sisco

With Reid's players his defense gave up 8.4 points per game.

1942

Loyd Russell

With Sisco's players, who won the Lone Star Conference a year before with a 7-1 record, his defense gave up 14.7 points per game.

1946

Odus Mitchell

Coach Mitchell had to start from scratch I assume due to WWII, maybe someone else can explain more on this but we didn't field a team for the '43, '44 and '45 seasons. But his first year defense gave up

9.2 yards per game, won the Lone Star Conference and beat Pacific in the '46 Optimist Bowl.

1967

Rod Rust

Taking over with Coach Mitchell's players who had won the Missouri Valley the year before, Coach Rust' defense gave up 13.8 points per game. This era was I believe when many of our passing records would be set for those of you who believe a quick strike, passing game stresses out the defense that much more, forcing them to give up more points than usual.

1973

Hayden Fry

Taking over Coach Rusts' players who finished 1-10 the year before, Coach Fry's defense gave up 22.1 points per game and won the MVC with a 5-5-1 record.

1979

Jerry Moore

Taking over a Fry coached 9-2 team Coach Moore's defense gave up 21.4 yards per game and finished the season 5-6.

1981

Bob Tyler

Taking over for a Moore coached 6-5 team Tyler's defense gave up 21.4 points per game.

1982

Corky Nelson

Taking over a Tyler coached 2-9 team, Coach Nelson, and I believe Coach Chuck Mills may have been his DC?(anyone remember?), Nelson's defense gave up 25.7 points per game.

1991

Dennis Parker

Taking over for a Nelson coached 6-5 team, coach Parker's defense gave up 29.7 points per game.

1994

Matt Simon

Taking over for a 4-7 Parker team, Simmon's defense gave up 21.8 points per game.

1998

Darrell Dickey

Taking over for a 4-7 Simmon team, Dickey's defense coached by Gary DeLoach gave up 27 points per game.

***********

2007

Todd Dodge

Taking over for a 3-9 Dickey team, whose defense would return 17 starters including 9 of the 11 who started the final 3 games of the '06 season and who ranked 64th nationally giving up 25.3 points per game, now coached by DC Ron Mendoza, after the 9th game this season his defense is giving up 49.6 points per game.

***********

After the '04 season which saw a significant drop off in production by the defense, Dickey's LB coach Kenny Evans took over as Defensive Coordinator for that season only. Even though the '05 defense would become statistically one of the worst of the Dickey era they would start that year as the 3rd youngest defense in the nation, yet would only surrender 31.5 points per game that season. If there was ever an excuse of "Level of Talent" as to why they did so poorly I would have to say this is one of them because of the youth on that squad, even though I will never forget the great effort they gave to get that first win in Murfreesboro to start the season.

Rick

Rick I think you got it!

Ron is just trying to stay ahead of the trend.

[FirefightnRick]

1982

Corky Nelson

Taking over a Tyler coached 2-9 team, Coach Nelson, and I believe Coach Chuck Mills may have been his DC?(anyone remember?), Nelson's defense gave up 25.7 points per game.

It was Chucky and then Bob Finklea as DC's through that era. We were drilled and trained to go after anything that moved on the field. Those were the toughest and meanest defenses that i have ever been apart of. I believe that we had at least two or three shutouts in '88.

My dad came to the game this time. He was a DC for a long time in Texas back in the '70's and knew all too well what was going on. The problem with the offense that Navy was running is that alot of these coaches and espicially players have never seen the option run, because it is basically extinct. The DE's were not stringing the QB out, so that the pursuit could catch up to the ball, the free safeties were no where around to take the pitch man or fill the alley and the MLB was no where around to fill the A gap and stop the dive back. The key to the option is keeping the ball on the line of scrimmage as long as possible in order for the pursuit to catch up from the back side. Once that happens you have everyone trapped.

You have to give it to Navy they could block and were very disciplined. If you noticed they all cut blocked on the line of scrimmage. This knocked the defensive line down and out of the play. The QB was an awesome option QB. I thought I was watching some of the old wishbone offenses from UT and OU.

I think what made it so much fun for us to watch you guys play was the fact that against the more established SWC teams you were always outsized, and it just didn't matter because as Silver stated already, y'all hit people so damn hard. Remember A&M's Darrin Lewis having to be helped off Kyle field? Remember the two goal line stands against Texas repeatedly knocking future NFLer Eric Metcalf on his ass for loss after loss? Someone knew a little about covering the pitch man back then for sure. Especially our team in '85 that held TCU's triple option to 14 points.

Good stuff.

Rick

[GoMeanGreen1999]

My dad came to the game this time. He was a DC for a long time in Texas back in the '70's and knew all too well what was going on. The problem with the offense that Navy was running is that alot of these coaches and espicially players have never seen the option run, because it is basically extinct.

I can buy the fact that these players haven't seen it, but you can't convince me that these coaches have not seen it. They may not have been on the defensive side of the ball against it, but they know what the option is - our coaches looked like this was a new offense or something. If they had never coached against it, then they should have been doing nothing but getting aquainted with it for the two weeks leading up to the game. I don't need them to be able to master it, but I do need them to be able to have a remote idea of how to stop it.

[SilverEagle]

I can buy the fact that these players haven't seen it, but you can't convince me that these coaches have not seen it. They may not have been on the defensive side of the ball against it, but they know what the option is - our coaches looked like this was a new offense or something. If they had never coached against it, then they should have been doing nothing but getting aquainted with it for the two weeks leading up to the game. I don't need them to be able to master it, but I do need them to be able to have a remote idea of how to stop it.

Chuck Peterson not only saw it, he ran it (for years and years) at Air Force as OC for Coach DeBerry (sp?).

[POW]

Chuck MIlls was the DC from '82 through a significant portion of the 80's.  Tremendously undersized players at every position that swarmed to the ball very well indeed.  Southland Conference Champs in '83 and got to Quarterfinals.  Very bad weather up in Reno helped Reno that day or good old NTSU would have won the I-AA crown that year.  MIke Sizelove (a misnomer, for sure) and Lester Harper where linebackers barely over 200 pounds and guys like Mike Hughes were like 235 pound strong safeties.  Corky ran off some good players in his early years and that helped mess him up in the late 80's. 

[untjim1995]

This is why a spread offense winning big can only happen with a badass defense. Otherwise, you don't keep the ball long enough, you don't create any turnovers, and you just get worn down as the game and season go on.

Again, look at who wins big in college football--teams that can tackle, pressure the QB, and get turnovers. 

What has killed us here is that we basically have gone with Vanilla-bad offense under Dickey and McCarney to Absolute-suck on defense under Dodge and SL. I mean, it seems impossible to find a coach here who can actually accomplish both. I suppose Corky was the last one...

[MGNation92]

Bringing up a thread from 13 years ago to compare Littrell to Dodge is bad.

Littrell is miles ahead of TD, and if you remember correctly the McCarney defenses outside of 2013 weren't exactly lighting it up either.