Developer Plans 50,000 SF at UNT's Gate

[MeanGreenNation]

sorry but this can only be good for UNT and City of Denton, except for all the status quo non-growth Dentonites

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Non-growth?? I am all for Denton growing but not through the establishment of national retialer after national retailer. I want small business' to thrive in Denton. If you have ever tried to star a business you will know how hard it is and how much cost is involved. It aint easy and bringing in the corporate monsters is only going to make it tougher. The local sporting goods store that was there for over 50 years recently went under due to corporate whores. Denton is (or rather was) a unique town. Developments only destroys what the City claims it has pride in). These busines owners are going to be run out and will likely end up on unemployment. They won't be able to wait it out untill the developer finishes the job to move into a new shop. This must be stoped.

[untgirl04]

A more conservative student?  Fantastic!  And maybe if we start now we can lure the Bush Presidential Library to campus.  Maybe have the Library inside a new stadium. 

Seriously what the hell is a more conservative student?  One who goes with the status quo?  One who prefers globalized, mass marketed brands over local?  One who can be told how and what to think?

Engineering and Conservative students sounds like you want an A&M North Campus.

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I think he's really talking about more students who actually make money out of college. Engineering and Business students traditionally are more likely to become donating alumni. Teachers don't donate because they don't get paid enough, scientists don't donate because they never make money, and musicians don't donate because most of them are starving artists. I don't think that NT needs to give up its unique culture of liberal arts, but I also think that a more balanced student body is a good thing.

[untbowler]

Non-growth?? I am all for Denton growing but not through the establishment of national retialer after national retailer. I want small business' to thrive in Denton. If you have ever tried to star a business you will know how hard it is and how much cost is involved. It aint easy and bringing in the corporate monsters is only going to make it tougher. The local sporting goods store that was there for over 50 years recently went under due to corporate whores. Denton is (or rather was) a unique town. Developments only destroys what the City claims it has pride in). These busines owners are going to be run out and will likely end up on unemployment. They won't be able to wait it out untill the developer finishes the job to move into a new shop. This must be stoped.

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Where does it say they are bringing in big business???

They will allow the businesses to stay there but obviously they need to pay more rent more than likely.

Personally and you can lambast me all day but much of the Fry Street area looks like a dump as you dodge all the empty beer bottles and cigarettes.

[CaribbeanGreen]

Look, i'm not remotely political, and I would shed a tear or two for the drastic changing that seems imminent for Fry St., but generally speaking, a "more conservative student" in the way I believe it was presented here, supports athletics and school pride 5000x more than those students who give Denton it's "character"....

... I have as many memories as the next guy, but i want to see NT advance, not spin its wheels. If I go back to Denton in 10 years and it looks the same as it does today, we have a major, major problem.

That doesn't mean I'm blindly supporting development, either. I want to see something that integrates the city's history and collegiate atmosphere, of course -- but in a day and age when many see "conservative" as a dirty word, I wish we had 5,000 more "conservative" students. Check out the booster clubs and stadiums and avid financial supporters of very successful major universities, and I'll show you 95% or higher "conservative" students -- again I don't think this is simply a political term in this case. I see what he was getting at -- i think.

The hippie is great background noise and NT folklore, but he's really not helping a damn thing. "Atmosphere" is far less important to me that kicking apathy out of Denton and seeing a group of energized, dedicated-for-life go getters fill the campus. If Starbucks gets them there (again, not being literal), then hell, put a Starbucks on every street in town.

[adman]

Where does it say they are bringing in big business???

They will allow the businesses to stay there but obviously they need to pay more rent more than likely.

Personally and you can lambast me all day but much of the Fry Street area looks like a dump as you dodge all the empty beer bottles and cigarettes.

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I doubt you dodge many beer bottles on Fry St. as glass was outlawed on Fry St a few years back. You can still have an open container just not one that is glass.

It looks like a dump compared to what? Southlake Town Center? West Village in Dallas? Sure it does but it also isn't a sea of sameness as those places with their plastic smiles. Who says everything in this world must be sanitized and perfect?

[CMJ]

It will be a sad day indeed to go back to a cookie cutter Fry Street. There CAN be buisness without that crap. Los Angeles has its share of huge chains, but there are tons of Mom & Pop stores all over the place. If I can I seek them out whenever possible. I even support local or regional chains(example In-N-Out Burger) over the monolithic entities. I believe there are only 2 Wal-Marts within the entire city for example,

Next time I'm back I'll miss the Tomato, and half a dozen other places in that corridor. God help me if I read that Voertman's is shutting down....

Edited May 10, 2006 by CMJ

[MeanGreenNation]

One more thing! For those that care about this go vote this Saturday!

The following candidates are likely to be more sensative to the issue of destroying Fry and at the same time support growth, especially John Paul Eddy

Justin Bell for mayor (a small business owner himself)

Shelley Shay - Pace 6 (former city employee, who was laid off a few months ago)

John Paul Eddy - Place 5

All three of these individuals are also endorsed by the Police department for their support of an increased police presence and a raise in their salary as well. Of course they are going to support them, but ultimately they are for a safer and cleaner Denton.

For more info visit http://www.myspace.com/preservedenton another web site may be in the works as well the will constantly be updated with the happenings in Denton that deal with similar issues.

Edited May 10, 2006 by MeanGreenNation

[WIFE2HOT4U]

Typically -

Conservative = Business, Engineering etc.

Liberal = Art, Music

Who makes more money? Who likes sports more?

I just feel UNT has a rep for being too damn Liberal and Artistic – lets balance it out some.

I always felt as a UNT student you either were in a Fraternity or you were an art/music major – we need more of a “Middle Ground” students so the average kid can fit in. You don’t have to be a wealthy Fraternity guy or a complete opposite nose ring, selling fake smoke on the corner Fry street guy.

Just how I felt ’95-’00… so I rushed and remember the segregation I felt even when I hung with my artistic friends.

And yes, I like Southlake Town Center.

[SilverEagle]

I can't speak to how "unique" Fry street is, or how integral it is to the "culture" or "personality" of the North Texas student body. When I was going to school, it was just starting to gain it's "infamous" reputation. The friend that I commuted to school with would occasionally stop by the "head shop" there to buy some supplies. And that's about as much contact as I ever had with Fry Street. Since it was never part of my University experience, I don't have any nostalgic feelings about it.

What I can tell you is this. I've hung out with the "freaks" (that's what they called themselves in the 70's) and I've hung out with the non-freaks of North Texas. The freaks certainly gave North Texas it's "uniqueness", but part of that "uniqueness" was apathy and (when they were clear headed enough) antagonism toward athletics and/or anything that smacks of school loyalty/spirit.

For some reason they seem to have set the criteria for what was "cool" at North Texas. And that didn't include attending athletic events, or giving back to the University. If attracting more "conservative" students to this school is the only way that we can dig ourselves out of this culture of "slacker-student" mentality, then so be it.

I just don't want to talk politics with any of them.

[DeepGreen]

Look, i'm not remotely political, and I would shed a tear or two for the drastic changing that seems imminent for Fry St., but generally speaking, a "more conservative student" in the way I believe it was presented here, supports athletics and school pride 5000x more than those students who give Denton it's "character"....

... I have as many memories as the next guy, but i want to see NT advance, not spin its wheels. If I go back to Denton in 10 years and it looks the same as it does today, we have a major, major problem.

That doesn't mean I'm blindly supporting development, either. I want to see something that integrates the city's history and collegiate atmosphere, of course -- but in a day and age when many see "conservative" as a dirty word, I wish we had 5,000 more "conservative" students. Check out the booster clubs and stadiums and avid financial supporters of very successful major universities, and I'll show you 95% or higher "conservative" students -- again I don't think this is simply a political term in this case. I see what he was getting at -- i think.

The hippie is great background noise and NT folklore, but he's really not helping a damn thing. "Atmosphere" is far less important to me that kicking apathy out of Denton and seeing a group of energized, dedicated-for-life go getters fill the campus. If Starbucks gets them there (again, not being literal), then hell, put a Starbucks on every street in town.

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Excellent post! I might add that when I attended NT back in the '60's, Fry street had your typical mom and pop stores, typical for that time frame. Clothing stores, cleaners, a small restaurant on the corner (had pretty good hamburgers if I recall). Now all I see in that area is crappy looking facades housing seedy looking bars and dope hangouts. I don't mind the bars, but damn, dress them up a bit!

[CMJ]

I was a Film Major. Not many people went to more athletic events than me when I was in school. Don't give me all the "Artistic" majors don't care about athletics.

[Zeke]

I was a Film Major.  Not many people went to more athletic events than me when I was in school.  Don't give me all the "Artistic" majors don't care about athletics. 

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This is true and we have numerous art/music students on here that are fans. Food for thought though: If you took the first 100 college graduates that walked through the door at Texas Stadium for a Cowboy game, how many of them would have graduated with a degree in the arts?

I was a "middle ground" student as mentioned above. I thought frats were dumb and that the artsy people were freaks.

[adman]

Typically -

Conservative = Business, Engineering etc.

Liberal = Art, Music

Who makes more money?  Who likes sports more? 

I just feel UNT has a rep for being too damn Liberal and Artistic – lets balance it out some.

I always felt as a UNT student you either were in a Fraternity or you were an art/music major – we need more of a “Middle Ground” students so the average kid can fit in.  You don’t have to be a wealthy Fraternity guy or a complete opposite nose ring, selling fake smoke on the corner Fry street guy. 

Just how I felt ’95-’00… so I rushed and remember the segregation I felt even when I hung with my artistic friends.

And yes, I like Southlake Town Center.

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Funny, you'd probably label Cal too damn liberal and artisitic too.(Although I'm not sure how you can be too artisitic) And yet they seem to excel at athletics and have a pretty loyal following.

Do you really think a Starbucks is going to sell someone on becoming a Mean Greener and support athletics? I don't. Winning over and over against big name teams will get support and attract more sports fans.

As to your point of seggregation - I graduated in '98 and was neither greek nor a facial pin cushion and I never felt any sort of segregation. To me that seems more like low self esteem than a need for less "liberal" students.

[Quoner]

Funny, you'd probably label Cal too damn liberal and artisitic too.(Although I'm not As to your point of seggregation - I graduated in '98 and was neither greek nor a facial pin cushion and I never felt any sort of segregation.  To me that seems more like low self esteem than a need for less "liberal" students.

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Can't believe that you would accuse a guy with the handle "wife2hot4u" of having any kind of self esteem or recognition issues.

That's just mean.

[LoveMG]

fry street area needed a good gutting. clean out the hippies, put some class in the area.

[centex eagle]

change has to be embraced--I do wish I had a Mexi Burger about 11:00 tomorrow (1971)--more future support for north texas will come from business majors in all kinds of ways. You want a diverse group of students, but we have been labled as freaks and liberal like texas for a long time and that is not a true picture when I attended in the late sixties or when my daughters attend now. outside perception is one of only heads, freaks, etc. Not a true picture of the true makeup of north texas from a business grad. I am proud of the improvements to north texas to make it a better looking,better landscaped campus. We do need to take a hint from tcu and keep more of our future development in a tighter formation so you have a better campus feel and hope future retail growth will have a touch of class.

[MeanGreenTeeth]

The hypocrisy on the board is amazing..... We gripe that a developer is taking over land we don't control while denouncing Denia residents who do the same thing.

Free market prevails y'all. If you want Fry Street to stay you'd best start drinking more. You have your mission....

[NTEagle08]

If you want to draw more business students to the college, build a new COBA building. That will bring in more Business students then a Starbucks on the corner of Fry and Hickory.

[ipEAGLE]

If you want to draw more business students to the college, build a new COBA building. That will bring in more Business students then a Starbucks on the corner of Fry and Hickory.

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Agreed, a new business building is needed. Midwestern State is almost done with their new business building and will be ready in the fall. It is quite impressive and will feature a Starbucks and a food court.

And another note... It will be sad to see part of Fry Street go, but on the otherhand it is always nice to see new developments. The Tomato and Voertmans better stay put, if not... hopefully they will rebuild, hopefully near campus.

Edited May 11, 2006 by ipEAGLE

[meangreen11]

Hey I love the Tomatoe as much as the next guy. But lookit, a nice respectable strip center would be great for the school. I agree with Joe that these establishments haven't shown that they can give us the kind of support that we need to get to the next level.

BUT, the biggest point here is that this will make the school more attractive on the weekend! It is dead around there on Friday and Saturday. Some nice bookstores and coffee shops will help keep students in town and increase attendance.

I would like to see some of the old places like the tomato and voertmans stay and I think they will. That will be the best of both worlds.

[Guest JohnDenver]

Agreed, a new business building is needed.  Midwestern State is almost done with their new business building and will be ready in the fall.  It is quite impressive and will feature a Starbucks and a food court.

And another note... It will be sad to see part of Fry Street go, but on the otherhand it is always nice to see new developments.  The Tomato and Voertmans better stay put, if not... hopefully they will rebuild, hopefully near campus.

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Honestly, I think that more commerce and under-21 entertainment NEAR campus is a HUGE draw for freshman. I know that when I went to UT, most of the students didn't have cars and lived around campus. They took the buses and shopped around campus.

Slowly, but surely, UNT is building this type of environment. It is needed if we are ever going to to shake the "commuter school" image. If this development really turns into a Mockingbird Station or an Uptown type area ... that would do nothing but help the school. There is plenty of room for other bars to open or move.

I personally hope that the old firestation behind the cleaners and Sukko Thai II will be developed into a bar ... maybe the new Cool Beans?

Lous, Riprocks, (old Muthers), (old Ricks) and Kharma are all untouched... if anything, they will benefit from the traffic that the new stores will draw. More foot traffic from the dorm side of the campus to the Fry side of the campus will be great.

[CaribbeanGreen]

I know there are several INDIVIDUALS that fit the "artistic" mold who are avid supporters -- I was referring to the whole, as I believe others here are as well.

Likewise with Cal... sure, fair example... but a rarity in a world of big college athletics and nowhere near the biggest of the big - surely we can agree on the general demographics of this while not focusing one one or two specifics.

[Guest Aquila_Viridis]

That area at Fry could be so much more than it is. In location relative to the school, it is analogous to 'The Corner' in Charlottesville, but The Corner is a LOT bigger, nicer and better. I do hope that development in that area will follow The Corner as a model, because it has unique shops, restaurants and bars. We have enough franchise insanity in this country. And one more thing regardless: Long Live The Tomato!

[FirefightnRick]

How much, if any of this will/did the university have say in? Anyone know? Surely the university is involved at some point, and if so I'm glad. It means someone at the top cares about the university's image to improve. Fry and it's ugly problems have been a major eyesore for far too long now. I see no reason why this can't be a mix of the old with the new, hopefully for the better. Now if we can only get some attention pointed towards the west side and start replacing the dilapidated apartments and renthouses?

Rick

[Zeke]

Now if we can only get some attention pointed towards the west side and start replacing the dilapidated apartments and renthouses? 

Rick

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Amen.