Hard Class to Assess

[IslandEagle]

With up to 5 scholarships and several gray shirts waiting in the wings, this is a very difficult class to assess. Hopefully, we can pick up some of the outstanding late qualifiers still available.

Looking at what we got: Wilson could be a real steal at QB, but we won't know until we see how he does in the Spring and whether he can pick up the system quickly. Loren falls into the same category at CB.

Trent Stanley and Kelvin Drake look solid for the OL. For the DL, I really like Sykes (tremendous up side and speed for DE) and Patton, who probably is our mostly highly sought recruit. As for Santiago, Ridge, Ross and Owusu-Hemeng, they should be contributors if they can make the shift to the college level game. The others appear to be projects.

Not a name class at all, but still we picked up size and some talent in the lines, which we needed very badly and got what appears to be a solid CB. I will reserve judgement until I see these guys in action and I see what grayshirts and late signees the coaches are able to bring in this Spring.

[OldTimer]

With up to 5 scholarships and several gray shirts waiting in the wings, this is a very difficult class to assess. Hopefully, we can pick up some of the outstanding late qualifiers still available.

Looking at what we got: Wilson could be a real steal at QB, but we won't know until we see how he does in the Spring and whether he can pick up the system quickly. Loren falls into the same category at CB.

Trent Stanley and Kelvin Drake look solid for the OL. For the DL, I really like Sykes (tremendous up side and speed for DE) and Patton, who probably is our mostly highly sought recruit. As for Santiago, Ridge, Ross and Owusu-Hemeng, they should be contributors if they can make the shift to the college level game. The others appear to be projects.

Not a name class at all, but still we picked up size and some talent in the lines, which we needed very badly and got what appears to be a solid CB. I will reserve judgement until I see these guys in action and I see what grayshirts and late signees the coaches are able to bring in this Spring.

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This is a comment from one of the analysist on OK Prep XTRA . "I attended a few Ardmore games this last season and Gordon is a player who I thought would have earned a few more looks with his play this season. North Texas definately got a steal with this kid in my opinion"

[buff64]

With up to 5 scholarships and several gray shirts waiting in the wings, this is a very difficult class to assess. Hopefully, we can pick up some of the outstanding late qualifiers still available.

Looking at what we got: Wilson could be a real steal at QB, but we won't know until we see how he does in the Spring and whether he can pick up the system quickly. Loren falls into the same category at CB.

Trent Stanley and Kelvin Drake look solid for the OL. For the DL, I really like Sykes (tremendous up side and speed for DE) and Patton, who probably is our mostly highly sought recruit. As for Santiago, Ridge, Ross and Owusu-Hemeng, they should be contributors if they can make the shift to the college level game. The others appear to be projects.

Not a name class at all, but still we picked up size and some talent in the lines, which we needed very badly and got what appears to be a solid CB. I will reserve judgement until I see these guys in action and I see what grayshirts and late signees the coaches are able to bring in this Spring.

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I agree ,Island ,way to early to label class a bonanza or a bust. Looks like lot of potential to me , mixed with the returning players and a good class of redshirts, I think people will be surprised. Plus the flexability of the remaining scholarships. I am always amazed that the posters seem to know the needs more than the coaching staff. The coaches career and the welfare of their families depend alot on the ability of these young men to play. I don't think they just sign kids for numbers sake. As boosters we all would like to see the top players signed each year ,but well you know the chicken and the egg thing.

[GMoney]

This is the type of class where you will be at a game on Saturday, you probably won't hear their names, but you'll know if it's success by whether we're controlling the LOS or not.

If we're getting 3.5 to 4yds a carry and holding our opponent under 3, getting pressure and providing some time to throw the ball - you'll realize this was a good class. Really the opposite of what happened this past year!

[pollock]

This is the type of class where you will be at a game on Saturday, you probably won't hear their names, but you'll know if it's success by whether we're controlling the LOS or not.

If we're getting 3.5 to 4yds a carry and holding our opponent under 3, getting pressure and providing some time to throw the ball - you'll realize this was a good class.  Really the opposite of what happened this past year!

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Excellent post. That's exactly what was missing from our game last year.

[mad dog]

buff makes a great point about holding on to a few ships to offer late. Remember, this is how we picked up Aaron Weathers, who was hands down our best defensive player this year.

[SilverEagle]

and Patton, who probably is our mostly highly sought recruit. As for Santiago, Ridge, Ross and Owusu-Hemeng, they should be contributors if they can make the shift to the college level game. The others appear to be projects.

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I'm wondering why everyone thinks that Patton is so much better than Mr. Santiago. Last I heard, Texas football is pretty highly regarded, and Mr. Santiago was named to a Texas 5-A all-state team.

Edited February 2, 2006 by SilverEagle

[IslandEagle]

I'm wondering why everyone thinks that Patton is so much better than Mr. Santiago. Last I heard, Texas football is pretty highly regarded, and Mr. Santiago was named to a Texas 5-A all-state team.

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His rating is due to the colleges that had invited him to visit, which were more highly rated than the colleges Santiago was invited to.

[H-towngreen]

You are right this is a very tough class to grade. It is very easy to look at a RB or QB and say that they dominated a game or even just played well. But when speaking of linemen on either side of the ball, it is very difficult. How many times after leaving a game do you hear someone say "WOW. That left guard really dominated the game today."

[GrandGreen]

I'm wondering why everyone thinks that Patton is so much better than Mr. Santiago. Last I heard, Texas football is pretty highly regarded, and Mr. Santiago was named to a Texas 5-A all-state team.

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Maybe because Santiago is an honorable mention All State, not exactly first team.

[H-towngreen]

That was as a O-linemen also not D-line. I think that before all is said and done he may move back to the O.

[PlummMeanGreen]

With up to 5 scholarships and several gray shirts waiting in the wings, this is a very difficult class to assess. Hopefully, we can pick up some of the outstanding late qualifiers still available.

Looking at what we got: Wilson could be a real steal at QB, but we won't know until we see how he does in the Spring and whether he can pick up the system quickly. Loren falls into the same category at CB.

Trent Stanley and Kelvin Drake look solid for the OL. For the DL, I really like Sykes (tremendous up side and speed for DE) and Patton, who probably is our mostly highly sought recruit. As for Santiago, Ridge, Ross and Owusu-Hemeng, they should be contributors if they can make the shift to the college level game. The others appear to be projects.

Not a name class at all, but still we picked up size and some talent in the lines, which we needed very badly and got what appears to be a solid CB. I will reserve judgement until I see these guys in action and I see what grayshirts and late signees the coaches are able to bring in this Spring.

←

I'll be a bit more civil about this than many other fellow NT Exes who I've communicated with via telelphone or emails since signing day, but the general consensus is is that this class is not difficult to assess at all.

It's a class that may allow us to compete in the middle of the Sun Belt Conference and that's about all we are going to get. We now know from last seasons results against La Tech, Tulsa, FAU what we've been getting in recruiting the last 3 years that our coaches told us each of those years............."This Was One Of Our Better Classes"................(hey, I still have some ocean front property in Parker County for some of you that I'll sell at a premium price).;(

Yet if some of you persists on trying to polish this t&rd and make it look like a gold brick, then go ahead, but how did you feel after the Tulsa loss last season--our worst home loss in UNT football history? Well, if that made you feel pretty low, then get ready for some more low moments in NT's upcoming football program under present leadership.

SO GO AHEAD, JUST GO AHEAD &............... close you eyes, click your heels 3 X's and ask yourselves 3 X's: "This is a good recruiting class, now isn't it??? Nobody will stop you from what your personal thoughts are on this class, but in 3 years you will be asking yourselves this question:

WHY IN THE HELL WAS BOBBY RAY AND HIS ASSOCOCIATES TRYING TO PERSERVERE ALL OF THIS BOTTOM OF THE BARRELL PERFORMANCE AT UNT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

.........AND WHY WERE THEY DOING THIS AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL NT EXES AND THE MEAN GREEN NATION MANY OF WHOM HAVE FOLLOWED THIS FOOTBALL PROGRAM LONG BEFORE MANY ON ITS PAYROLL EVEN KNEW (or cared) THAT THERE WAS A DENTON, TEXAS, USA? ? ? ? ? ? ? (and won't care 5 minutes off the UNT payroll). **** Sorry, didn't mean to be so loud with the last couple of sentences, but being a bit hearing impaired just causes some of us to speak louder than most).

YOU LOVE ALL THIS? IF SO, YOU NOW HAVE YOUR HEART'S DESIRE.....

You love all this SBC/Bottom 10 competition with Top 25 being something that only happens at other NCAA 1-A schools, but at ("we po', but proud, redneck mutha' backs against the wall UNT) the Top 25 is merely a pipe dream that only happens at places like UTEP, Bowling Green and even other top football schools in the "lowly" MAC who visit Top 25 rankings frequently). You really all do love this? Well, if so.........you who do now have your hearts desires.

You love all this veiled and disguised success (with some NT athletic employees winking at each other giggling "Norm Hitzges-style" as they plan to retire in Denton and all this because they've been able to pull the wool over the eyes of the Mean Green Nation? Well, if so..........you who do now have your heart's desire.

You love watching all other Texas D1-A schools passing us by with facilities, better coaching, better recruiting while as they pass us beeping at us like the old Road-Runner cartoon series? Well, if so.............you who do now have your heart's desire.

You like having about 99% on our alma mater's athletic dept. payroll who can't even get job interviews (and you know all the reasons why) with other schools at the NCAA D1-A level (and if truth be known, even at the NCAA 1-AA level)? Well, if so..........you who do now have your heart's desire.

You like seeing Bottom Of The Barrell (BOTB) performance continuously getting rewarded at UNT with (with an unprecedented and most unusual style of athletics management at any level in the NCAA?); and rewarded with extended contracts after years of under .500 performance so we of the MG Nation can keep on seeing this "BOTB" style of intercollegiate athletics in Denton for the next however many more years now? Well, if so..............you who do now have your hearts desire.

You think tweaking our assistant NT football coaching staff with the firing of a few and briinging in other new faces is really the answer in Mean Green Country? Is this the very thing that will continue to float the boats of many of the Mean Green Nation many of whom have already cea$ed their own per$onal funding of this sham of a athletic program operating in the SBC/Bottom 10 ? Well, if so..............you who do now have your heart's desire.

<>*<> There are many of us who do not like what we are seeing and what even appears to be after national signing week a continuance of mediocrity in the University of North Texas football program and..............gettting 1 minute of attention, a smile or a beer from the head foootball coach is not going to change any of this one iota for a growing army of many who are just plain not very happy with what we are seeing. .

...................................................................................................

DID WE REALLY RECRUIT THAT MANY WHO HAD MAINSTREAM NCAA D-1A TALENT (& above the SBC/Bottom10)?

One recruiting service has UNT ranked in the low 100's (out of 119) and 4'th in the SBC (I repeat: "4'th in the SBC"...............honestly, many were surprised it was even that high); yet another national ranking service has UNT ranked dead last among all NCAA D1-A schools (but in all fairness, it had less than a handful of NT recruits on their list) but being dead last on any list no matter the situation is still not a very comfortable place to be.

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SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HIM PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO BOBBY RAY :

We can do better than what we're doing, sir, because we have done better. Do the right thing, Mr. Ray, and don't delay for one more second or minute what can once again be a successful (at a higher profile) and proud Mean Green football program that used to swim with the sharks (and while swimming with those sharks at a higher NCAA 1-A co-existance got in some signifiant bites among those sharks as well).

Mr. Ray, many who want to invest into all this are just not going to any longer under present conditions and leadership. Do you know many fans of the Longhorns, Aggies, Bears, Cougars, Red Raiders, etc, etc, etc, who would (least of all lay down and enjoy it while its happening to them)?

FWIW, Mr. Ray: Corky Nelson was 6 & 5 and had beaten SMU his last year on the UNT payroll. Dennis Parker and Matt Simon were realeased from their contracts immediatly follwing their last recruiting class.

Time is of essence, Mr. Ray, and time is (after all).........................money.

Do the right thing, sir, and as an NT grad yourself, you'll be glad you did.

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Edited February 3, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[IslandEagle]

I'll be a bit more civil about this than many other fellow NT Exes who I've communicated with via telelphone or emails since signing day, but the general consensus is is that this class is not difficult to assess at all. 

It's a class that may allow us to compete in the middle of the Sun Belt Conference and that's about all we are going to get.  We now know from last seasons results against La Tech, Tulsa, FAU what we've been getting in recruiting the last 3 years that our coaches told us each of those years............."This Was One Of Our Better Classes"................(hey, I still have some ocean front property in Parker County for some of you that I'll sell at a premium price).;(

Yet if some of you persists on trying to polish this t&rd and make it look like a gold brick, then go ahead, but how did you feel after the Tulsa loss last season--our worst home loss in UNT football history?  Well, if that made you feel pretty low, then get ready for some more low moments in NT's upcoming football program under present leadership.

SO GO AHEAD, JUST GO AHEAD &............... close you eyes, click your heels 3 X's and ask yourselves 3 X's: "This is a good recruiting class, now isn't it??? Nobody will stop you from what your personal thoughts are on this class,  but in 3 years you will be asking yourselves this question: 

WHY IN THE HELL WAS BOBBY RAY AND HIS ASSOCOCIATES TRYING TO PERSERVERE ALL OF THIS BOTTOM OF THE BARRELL PERFORMANCE AT UNT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

.........AND WHY WERE THEY DOING THIS AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL NT EXES AND THE MEAN GREEN NATION MANY OF WHOM HAVE FOLLOWED THIS FOOTBALL PROGRAM LONG BEFORE MANY ON ITS PAYROLL EVEN KNEW (or cared) THAT THERE WAS A DENTON, TEXAS, USA? ? ? ? ? ? ?  (and won't care 5 minutes off the UNT payroll).  **** Sorry, didn't mean to be so loud with the last couple of sentences, but being a bit hearing impaired just causes some of us to speak louder than most).

YOU LOVE ALL THIS?  IF SO, YOU NOW HAVE YOUR HEART'S DESIRE.....

You love all this SBC/Bottom 10 competition with Top 25 being something that only happens at other NCAA 1-A schools, but at ("we po', but proud, redneck mutha' backs against the wall UNT) the Top 25 is merely a pipe dream that only happens at places like UTEP, Bowling Green and even other top football schools in the "lowly" MAC who visit Top 25 rankings frequently).  You really all do love this?  Well, if so.........you who do now have your hearts desires. 

You love all this veiled and disguised success (with some NT athletic employees winking at each other giggling "Norm Hitzges-style" as they plan to retire in Denton and all this  because they've been able to pull the wool over the eyes of the Mean Green Nation?  Well, if so..........you who do now have your heart's desire.

You love watching all other Texas D1-A schools passing us by with facilities, better coaching, better recruiting while as they pass us  beeping at us like the old Road-Runner cartoon series?  Well, if so.............you who do now have your heart's desire.

You like having about 99% on our alma mater's athletic dept. payroll who can't even get job interviews (and you know all the reasons why)  with other schools at the NCAA D1-A level (and if truth be known, even at the NCAA 1-AA level)?  Well, if so..........you who do now have your heart's desire.

You like seeing Bottom Of The Barrell (BOTB) performance continuously getting rewarded at UNT with (with an unprecedented and most unusual style of athletics management at any level in the NCAA?);  and rewarded with extended contracts after years of under .500 performance so we of the MG Nation can keep on seeing this "BOTB" style of intercollegiate athletics in Denton for the next however many more years now?  Well, if so..............you who do now have your hearts desire.

You think tweaking our assistant NT football coaching staff with the firing of a few and briinging in other new faces is really the answer in Mean Green Country?  Is this the very thing that will continue to float the boats of many of the Mean Green Nation many of whom have already cea$ed their own per$onal funding of this sham of a athletic program operating in the SBC/Bottom 10 ?  Well, if so..............you who do now have your heart's desire.

<>*<> There are many of us who do not like what we are seeing and what even appears to be after national signing week a continuance of mediocrity in the University of North Texas football program and..............gettting 1 minute of attention, a smile or a beer from the head foootball coach is not going to change any of this one iota for a growing army of many who are just plain not very happy with what we are seeing. .

...................................................................................................

DID WE REALLY RECRUIT THAT MANY WHO HAD MAINSTREAM NCAA D-1A TALENT (& above the SBC/Bottom10)?

One recruiting service has UNT ranked in the low 100's (out of 119) and 4'th in the SBC (I repeat:  "4'th in the SBC"...............honestly, many were surprised it was even that high);  yet another national ranking service has UNT ranked dead last among all NCAA D1-A  schools (but in all fairness, it had less than a handful of NT recruits on their list) but being dead last on any list no matter the situation is still not a very comfortable place to be.

....................................................................................................

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SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HIM PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO BOBBY RAY : 

We can do better than what we're doing, sir, because we have done better.  Do the right thing, Mr. Ray,  and don't delay for one more second or minute what can once again be a successful (at a higher profile) and proud Mean Green football program that used to swim with the sharks (and while swimming with those sharks at a higher NCAA 1-A co-existance got in some signifiant bites among those sharks as well). 

Mr. Ray, many who want to invest into all this are just not going to any longer under present conditions and leadership.  Do you know many fans of the Longhorns, Aggies, Bears, Cougars, Red Raiders, etc, etc, etc, who would (least of all lay down and enjoy it while its happening to them)? 

FWIW, Mr. Ray:  Corky Nelson was 6 & 5 and had beaten SMU his last year on the UNT payroll.  Dennis Parker and Matt Simon were realeased from their contracts immediatly follwing their last recruiting class. 

Time is of essence, Mr. Ray, and time is (after all).........................money. 

Do the right thing, sir, and as an NT grad yourself, you'll be glad you did.

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Get a grip, Plum and take a few deep breaths.

I'm happy to know that you are such an expert on evaluating prospective college recruits. You know there are a lot of folks who will pay big bucks for your kind of expertise. Why don't you go pro?

As for me, I'm not going to criticize a recruiting class until they perform on the college gridiron. That's the only evaluation that really counts.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Get a grip, Plum and take a few deep breaths.

I'm happy to know that you are such an expert on evaluating prospective college recruits. You know there are a lot of folks who will pay big bucks for your kind of expertise. Why don't you go pro?

As for me, I'm not going to criticize a recruiting class until they perform on the college gridiron. That's the only evaluation that really counts.

←

IE, you don't have to be a recruiting guru if you merely look at the results of poor coaching, poor disciplining, bad mouthing of your very own employer's fans, etc, etc, etc, . Have all the aforementioned galvanized our NT Exes and the Mean Green Nation as one family in total harmony. Such a characterstic that is vital for a school like UNT to have any chance to succeed at the turnstiles and in the donations department (across the board)s?

How many football season tickets get sold this summer? I know many who will no longer re-new their football season tickets at UNT until our leadership starts listening to its constituency (which sorta' out-numbers those making the decisions in Denton I think we'd all agree)?

Do some NT fans really need another 1, 2, or 8 years of Dickey Ball to figure out that he is (still) at best a journeyman assistant football coach (and not sure how successful he was even at that to be quite frank)? After all, Helwig signed him to a contract at UNT after he had been at SMU for (let's all count now) "1" year on the Hilltop.

I know, one year at SMU and about 4 other journeyman stops in 10 years makes any journeyman assistant coach very elgible to be a head football coach at any level, right? Well, it seemed to be that at the University of North Texas who once chose Dennis Parker over Dennis Francione to be our head football coach. FWIW, we do seem to have quite a track record in head football coach hirings in Denton, now don't we?

One can only wonder what we of UNT will do next time to avoid hiring a coach with the skins on his wall that could actually take us to Top 25, to take us out of all this SBC/Bottom 10 malaise that has some of our best fans in some kind of catatonic trance of acceptance of Bottom of the Barrell performance on and off the football field.

8 years of under .500 and with his most recent recruiting classes that showed all on the field of battle (where we sort'a judge recruiting classes, right?); anyway, Dickey Ball with its last few years of recruiting results showed that those were hardly of the quality that would even allow us to compete against schools like Florida "freakin" Atlantic U? Someone (again) please tell us what we are supposed to be hanging our hats on to feel we have a good football future under present conditions? We are all ears!

And sir, FAU only started their football program 6 years ago and from scratch. BTW, to those who seem to have forgotten, we've lost to FAU 2 years in a row and one of those losses was a bowl year for DD--his last bowl year in 2004.

Hellsbells, maybe we should just clean house at UNT and start over from scratch, it seems to have worked quite well for FAU, now hasn't it? (Do we stand a chance to "out-coach" Coach Schnellenberger and beat them in only our 3'rd attempt this Fall)?

BOWLING FOR DOLLARS: Can UNT football fans put 2 and 2 together as to who might have gone bowling in 2004 had FAU been an SBC member at the time? ** What if Troy U had been a member of the SBC in 2001(which was their desire)when they also beat us as a NCAA D1-AA school? For those who will take the green tinted glasses off, that was DD's 1'st bowl year. So someone please tell the rest of us, what are we supposed to be excited about with all the veiled success we've had with one of the strangest head football coaching jobs and performances against the "sister of the SBC poor" in the history of the NCAA?

So come on, Island Eagle, any novice can see what we have with Darrell Dickey in control at UNT and you don't have to be a recruiting guru to figure out what the NT Football Media Guide will tell each and every one of the UNT constituency in black and white; for those who choose to take their heads out of the sand, that is.

Edited February 3, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[UNTLifer]

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SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HIM PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO BOBBY RAY : 

We can do better than what we're doing, sir, because we have done better.  Do the right thing, Mr. Ray,  and don't delay for one more second or minute what can once again be a successful (at a higher profile) and proud Mean Green football program that used to swim with the sharks (and while swimming with those sharks at a higher NCAA 1-A co-existance got in some signifiant bites among those sharks as well). 

Mr. Ray, many who want to invest into all this are just not going to any longer under present conditions and leadership.  Do you know many fans of the Longhorns, Aggies, Bears, Cougars, Red Raiders, etc, etc, etc, who would (least of all lay down and enjoy it while its happening to them)? 

FWIW, Mr. Ray:  Corky Nelson was 6 & 5 and had beaten SMU his last year on the UNT payroll.  Dennis Parker and Matt Simon were realeased from their contracts immediatly follwing their last recruiting class. 

Time is of essence, Mr. Ray, and time is (after all).........................money. 

Do the right thing, sir, and as an NT grad yourself, you'll be glad you did.

......................................................................................................

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PMG, why don't you call him up and bend his ear instead of eating up nearly an entire page of this thread?

[UNTBill]

Get a grip, Plum and take a few deep breaths.

I'm happy to know that you are such an expert on evaluating prospective college recruits. You know there are a lot of folks who will pay big bucks for your kind of expertise. Why don't you go pro?

As for me, I'm not going to criticize a recruiting class until they perform on the college gridiron. That's the only evaluation that really counts.

←

At least with some of the 300 lbers our OL and DL won't look so small on the field.

[PlummMeanGreen]

PMG, why don't you call him up and bend his ear instead of eating up nearly an entire page of this thread?

←

UNTLifer, someone who knows him and can talk some sense with the man would be the only way for any of this to have any chance of making any headway for the cause of a UNT constituency who really sincerely thinks we can do better at UNT than what we presently are.

And FWIW, I was born at night, but I wasn't born last night and would know better than to waste my own time talking to someone (I don't personally know or have any influence) and one who seems to really not want to listen to those outside his own little elite circle in Denton (headed by "non Phd" Chancellor Lee Jackson--also his own personal pick to lead the UNT System).

[UNTLifer]

How can we even begin to assess a recruiting class until they've been given a chance to play?

Examples:

1. Was anyone excited when NT signed a QB from Llano, TX? Turned out to be a pretty good linebacker named Brad Kassell.

2. Were any of you jumping for joy when we signed a 5'9" 190lb. running back from Tecumseh, OK by the name of Patrick Cobbs?

3. I don't recall ticker tape parades around campus over the signing of Scott Hall.

4. I seem to recall many, during the Fry era, pounding their chests over the signing of Milton Collins. He didn't pan out.

Give these kids some time to develop and then see how you would rate them. Some will exceed expectations and others fall woefully short, but at least give them a chance.

[PlummMeanGreen]

How can we even begin to assess a recruiting class until they've been given a chance to play?

Examples:

1.  Was anyone excited when NT signed a QB from Llano, TX?  Turned out to be a pretty good linebacker named Brad Kassell.

2.  Were any of you jumping for joy when we signed a 5'9" 190lb. running back from Tecumseh, OK by the name of Patrick Cobbs?

3.  I don't recall ticker tape parades around campus over the signing of Scott Hall.

4.  I seem to recall many, during the Fry era, pounding their chests over the signing of Milton Collins.  He didn't pan out.

Give these kids some time to develop and then see how you would rate them.  Some will exceed expectations and others fall woefully short, but at least give them a chance.

←

UNTLifer, if you are content with the level Dickey Ball has taken us with the 119 member NCAA D1-A football mainstream, then you will continue to be happy with what you are getting, ie, small goals that will be reached some years by those w/o the obvious talent to take us any higher than SBC/Bottom 10 competition.

AND.........before anyone knew Milton Collins would be a bust at the collegiate level, there were still about 75 other NCAA D1-A schools that Hayden Fry and UNT out-recruited for his services.

Yet.............do you (or anyone) see that kind of thing such as happened with Milton Collins repeating itself under current leadership now? Hellsbells, right now many would be glad to see 1 or 2 potential recruits on an area Top 100 list say UNT is on their short list of schools they are interested.

So are you really looking forward to the 2006 football season, UNTLifer? If so, good for you, but I know very few who are in light of what last season told us quite loud and clear about what many can now see as the true direction of Mean Green football. And that will just not cut the mustard for most Mean Green fans I've known in recent decades.

FWIW. the MG Nation is split right down the middle with all this and a school like UNT can ill afford that kind of thing to happen. And all this because of one person on the UNT payroll to boot?

It does seems to be quite an extremely potentially bad business decision from our UNT leadeship over one person on the NT payroll.

Those who try to market all this this next Summer will be the first ones to find all that out, too. Maybe NT leadership will sit down and listen to that group, eh?

[GoMeanGreen1999]

It is shocking to me that there seem to be so many on here that are not pissed off and ticket off at what a piss poor recruiting year this is. Are you kidding me? This sucks and in 2-3 year, just like Plumm said, many of you will be wondering what the heck you were thinking. I can't believe we are one year removed from the 4 titles in a row, and this is how bad our recruiting is. Just like Boise State did to us years ago, the rest of the Sun Belt appears to be doing now and that is passing us on by.

[UNTLifer]

I didn't say I was pleased with our recruiting effort. Sure I wish we would have gone after and signed more 3 and 4 star recruits. I wish we would have gone after more kids in our own backyard and won. But, I won't place a grade on the young men we did sign until a couple of years down the road, minus the JUCOs. The JUCO's better perform immediately.

I am not happy with DD, the persona he has of not caring, his lack of leading with discipline, his bad mouthing the fans and school in the media, allowing assistant coaches to go after fans in the stands without and consequences, etc....

I am not happy with the contracts our BOR and AD allowed to happen that have tied us to coaches that are not performing. Look back at some of my posts in regards to my true feelings. I don't think you will ever question what my feelings are.

I just chose to lay off the negative stuff during the recruiting process, and I'm tired of beating a dead horse. I was very clear with my feelings and don't think I need to remind everyone with each of my posts. Considering all of the above, I still refuse to place a "grade" on this class until in the future.

[Stan R]

Considering all of the above, I still refuse to place a "grade" on this class until in the future.

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Chicken. Just Kidding! Just Kidding!

[PlummMeanGreen]

I didn't say I was pleased with our recruiting effort.  Sure I wish we would have gone after and signed more 3 and 4 star recruits.  I wish we would have gone after more kids in our own backyard and won.  But, I won't place a grade on the young men we did sign until a couple of years down the road, minus the JUCOs.  The JUCO's better perform immediately.

I am not happy with DD, the persona he has of not caring, his lack of leading with discipline, his bad mouthing the fans and school in the media, allowing assistant coaches to go after fans in the stands without and consequences, etc....

I am not happy with the contracts our BOR and AD allowed to happen that have tied us to coaches that are not performing.  Look back at some of my posts in regards to my true feelings.  I don't think you will ever question what my feelings are.

I just chose to lay off the negative stuff during the recruiting process, and I'm tired of beating a dead horse.  I was very clear with my feelings and don't think I need to remind everyone with each of my posts.   Considering all of the above, I still refuse to place a "grade" on this class until in the future.

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Well, I believe another misconception or old wives tale floatin' around these parts (and we seem to have more than our share in Mean Green Country) is the big presumption & perception that this message board has that much bearing or influence on NT's recruiting.

In fact, some would go as far and say that many of the level of players NT needs to be recruiting probably don't even own a personal computer.

And I suppose "Spin 101" was not in the curriculam when I was an NT student, because the spinning wheel is working overtime with some of the unrealstic evalutions some on this board have made of this class.

One description I read of one of NT's recruits this week went something like this: "...a bruising blocker with 5 catches for 40 yards." You know what, I shared that quote and stat with one of my Horned Frog friends over here in Fort Worth and he said, "Jeez, you folks really are lost in the NCAA athletic desert these days now arent' you?"

BTW, UNTLifer, I know you were not soliciting this, but many of us would give your post an A+ for content.

YET................if those of us on this forum don't raise hell about what we are not happy about until someone on campus finally gets the message, just who in the hell will, ie, the Friends of the "freakin" Library? (An inside joke that SUMG and maybe a few past Ulys Knight Spirit Award recipients might appreciate, and then again, maybe they won't). LOL!

I bring this up one more time, but for a school who chose Dennis Parker over Dennis Francione (you know, the Aggies head man?); maybe NT leaders need to just keep on hearing some things over and over and over and over and over (again) until "DING DONG" some of this concerning NT athletics finally registers?

At UNT, we don't seem to have a clue with who to hire for an NCAA D1-A program that operates at a higher profile, that is, one that will be competetive in the mainstream of NCAA D1-A (and for crissakes' can we quit operating and performing like we are still in NCAA D1-AA)? .

Just doesn't take an expert to notice any of these (forever)hiring pitfalls, either. In fact, even a novice such as I have noticed these kind of hiring trends at UNT for too damn a long time. I suppose if one would simply read his (or her) NT Football Media Guide that that will give anyone all the proof that he would ever need, right?

Edited February 3, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[ObviousMan]

Having read all of the previous posts it seems clear that UNT has fallen short in the progress category. However, the one thing I don't see are possible names to replace DD, or anyone on his staff.

It is my contention that the reason UNT has poor recruiting in Texas, or more specifically, the DFW area is that their staff has no one that has coached in the area and as a result does not know how, or where, to find players. I mean when your offensive coordinator (and you can really make an argument about being offensive in a non-football way) best claim to fame is that he led SMU to a 6-5 mark as a player that's terrible. If he is setting the direction for the offense then no wonder they don't understand the passing game.

The DD regime needs to come to an end, but who would/should be his replacement. My personal as a replacement for the offensive coordinator is Todd Dodge from Southlake Carroll. Has experience designing, building, and running a high-powered offense and creating a winning atmosphere. Major knock is lack of experience coaching outside the high school rank. But, given what we have, it would likely still be an upgrade. The best part is maybe he could bring some blue chip talent with him.

Just rambling.

[PHSCoach]

I'm sure that Coach Dodge would give up about $30,000 per year to come coach at UNT

Flanigan finished his career at SMU amassing 7,437 career yards. He ranks among the school's career leaders in passing yards (5,640 - 4th), completions (438-4th), pass attempts (829 - 4th), TD passes (30 - 5th), and rushing yards (1,797 - 12th). He also accounted for more touchdowns than any other player, scoring 57 (30 passing, 27rushing). Flanigan's achievements have earned him a spot in our list of the 90 Greatest Moments in SMU Football History.

Edited February 4, 2006 by PHSCoach