PlummMeanGreen annoying posts now a federal crime!

[MeanGreen61]

#3 Anybody that payed attention to the games since 2002 would know we have been slipping fast and DD has not been able to correct it.

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Since 2002? Not gettin' into this, but 2003 was a 9 win season, 2-3 in regular season OC games (wins over Baylor 52-14 & Troy 21-0). 1978 was the last prior 9 win season.

Edited January 28, 2006 by MeanGreen61

[vpackrats]

Boy, I don't know about the rest of you but I sure miss the ol' "200 acres of rolling prarie between 2 interstates / life is great in Mean Green Country" Plumm. He's been replaced by the "Grassy Knoll / Bobby Ray is in cahoots with the state of Kansas / Area 51 / Marfa Lights / we couldn't beat CalTech" Plumm.

Y'know, we learned in UNT Government Class the definition of a "filibuster" and how that plays out in the Senate. Plumm's giving us his version of a filibuster in almost every thread on the board. Ok, we get it. You're not happy w/the current admin.

[PlummMeanGreen]

3 winning seasons in 8 years.

39-55 overall record (41%).

107 out of 117 D-1A FB.

Name another coach in D-1A that has survived in his current position with this record??

Are you satisfied with this??

Can you see our frustration???

How many more years are you willing to give DD/RV/BoR to turn around the program????

Can you see our frustration????

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Are we casting pearls before NT's versions of Porky the Piggies, eulesseagle?

We just have those who like being average, that's all, ee. Sorta' sad in many ways. Wonder how much they will continue to give to Bottom of the SBC Barrell college football? I won't give a penny, don't mind others knowing that and won't give a damn-yankee dime till we raise our standards back to where the 4'th largest university in Texas needs to have its standards. For you who don't like that-----sue me!

I love all the responses, though; sorta' healthy in many ways, although a few of our distinguished posters with their Junior High'ish type responses are kind of surprising me just a tad. Funny how some people react toward you when you don't accept the kind of low expection type shit they are so readily accepting at UNT. I hardly know these people anymore.

Yet, who knows, maybe some will get so pissed (even at me--I don't really care, I can handle it); but, eulesseagle, I hope some finally wake up to smell that rank odor coming from the NT Athletic Dept, figure out what we are really getting with all this and march right into Denton and demand changes now. And kicking a few strategic asses while they are there up there probalby wouldn't hurt, either. I think frontier justice has its place when used at the right and proper time. Hmmm? Chuck Norris, eh?

(No, not really, I believe in MLK non-violence if truth be known). I also believe in people taking away what NT leader$ need until they finally get the point. I hope we don't have another "Pull the Plug" type photo of an empty Fouts Field in our near future; for those of us who have been around UNT awhile, we know to never say never with such things in Denton.

GOD BLESS REAL TEXANS!

PS: To H-towngreen: You asked for my expectations of Dickey Ball? Darrell Dickey cannot meet my expectatoins and his 9'th year of an under .500 career in Denton will continue to prove that. I don't buy his beating the "100 and up" worse football schools in NCAA D1-A in order to get a bowl game as our ultimate panacea for where this football program really needs to go. I could probably beat my sister 4 years in a row of tennis, but I don't really know what I would have proven with that.

You mention something about me saying something positive? Well, I think it is positive for my desire to have personel in Denton who will take us out of this muck and mire of a NCAA D1-A football existence. Maybe being negative is for those who want to see it perservere under one who has had 8 years to prove his worth? Ever look at it like that? Well, many are now doing so.

DD's little "feel sorry for those who have to play our ass" comments sounds like a comment coming from a desperate NT athletic employee who knows fewer and fewer are buying into his style or his product any longer.

For those who have to market Dickey Ball this summer for the 2006 football season, I can't remember a time when NT athletic marketing had its work so cut out for themselves as they do this next summer.

Edited January 28, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[KingDL1]

Since 2002? Not gettin' into this, but 2003 was a 9 win season, 2-3 in regular season OC games (wins over Baylor 52-14 & Troy 21-0). 1978 was the last prior 9 win season.

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See thats it exactly, people see through Green glasses. If they payed attention they would have seen the slip in defense. Baylor was last in the NCAA that year Troy was 1AA and the year before in 2002 our Defense was ranked in the top 10 but not that year, no where close.

Edited January 28, 2006 by KingDL1

[MeanGreen61]

See thats it exactly, people see through Green glasses. If they payed attention they would have seen the slip in defense. Baylor was last in the NCAA that year Troy was 1AA and the year before in 2002 our Defense was ranked in the top 10 but not that year, no where close.

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See what you want, others will see what they want........but don't try to appear as if you are an all knowing guru. Baylor did beat Colorado and Troy WAS 1A with a win over Marshall. If YOU'RE pay attention what I posted is FACT not a look thru any color of glasses or with any type of agenda. Was the team record not 9-3 in regular season? Did they have a 2-3 OC record ? Were the OC wins vs Baylor & Troy? Was it the first team since 1978 to have 9 wins ? Have a nice day & continue with your agenda

Edited January 28, 2006 by MeanGreen61

[KingDL1]

See what you want, others will see what they want........but don't try to appear as if you are an all knowing guru.  Baylor did beat Colorado and Troy WAS 1A with a  win over Marshall. If YOUR pay attention what I posted is FACT not a look thru any color of glasses or with any type of agenda.  Was the team record not 9-3 in regular season? Did they have a 2-3 OC record ? Were the OC wins vs Baylor & Troy. Was it the first team since 1978 to have 9 wins ? Have a nice day & continue with your agenda

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I guess you told me that Big Baylor Team we knocked off finished 3-9 for the second year straight. 2003 was almost a record setting year for them, in their Teams history that was the 2nd most points allowed in a season, only toped by 2002 which was first. Plus you probably want to throw in who Baylor's other two wins were that year; Division 1AA Sam Houston State (finished the season 2-9) and the Dallas power house of 2003 SMU (finished the season 0-12; ranked 116 ). But you are absolutely correct that Baylor did beat a lack luster Colorado (finished the season 5-7). Are you really saying beating Baylor when they on the rocks, some the worst years in their football programs history is something impressive?

Most Points Allowed In A Season

You are right about Troy though they started D1 in 2002, and had a 6-6 season in 2003 with two hard D1aa wins against Florida International (finished the season 2-10) and Southeastern Louisiana Lions (finished the season 5-7). Is beating Troy really a highlight, one of those impressive victories to gauge the Mean Green by?

But more to the point which was "slipping" 2003 was the year our defense started to slip. Thats a cold hard fact!

[MeanGreen61]

But more to the point which was "slipping" 2003 was the year our defense started to slip. Thats a cold hard fact!

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Defense ? What about the 2003 offense ? Isn't offense & defense the whole story?

2002 Offense - 249 points scored (19.15 ppg avg)

2003 Offense - 358 points scored (27.54 ppg avg)

2002 Defense - 192 points allowed (14.77 ppg avg)

2003 Defense - 285 points allowed (21.92 ppg avg)

2002 point spread v opponents - +4.38

2003 point spread v opponents - +5.62

Just cold, hard facts. Have a nice day

Edited January 28, 2006 by MeanGreen61

[eulesseagle]

MeanGreen61---

You can come up with offensive and defensive information or come up with what Coach Dickey has done for the last 3 years compared to his first 5 or any other variation but:

It still does not negate the "Cold Hard Facts" of:

1. 3 winning seasons in 8 years.

2. Overall record of 33-55 (41%)

3. #107 out of 117 D-1A teams......and much lower if you count the D-1AA teams that are ranked above us.

4. Name one D-1A coach that has survived in his current position with this record??

If you are satisfied with this mediocrity then I can accept your decision of living in mediocrity and hoping that "next year" will be THE year.

There are many of us who do not accept this mediocrity. These figures are an absolute embarrasement, at least to me. I have seen NTSU/UNT play football since 1966 and I have never seen us ranked SO low, kept a non-preforming coach for SO long and have alum say that a 41% winning percentage, after 8 years, is fine with me.....because i just want to be mediocure and a "yes man" to whatever RV and the BoR tells me.

If college taught some of us old timers one thing it is to think for ourselves. I do not know what they are teaching now but sounds like some of you are proud to be mediocure and proud to be #107 out of 117. hahahahahahhaha

Gee Plum, KingDL and et. al.........things have changed.......it is no longer, "be the best you can be" .... now it is, "strive to be mediocure."

[MeanGreen61]

If you are satisfied with this mediocrity then I can accept your decision of living in mediocrity and hoping that "next year" will be THE year.

If college taught some of us old timers one thing it is to think for ourselves. 

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WOW.... Now tell me where I have done anything but question that 2003 was worse than 2002? Where have I said I was satisfied or not satisfied ?

You are right about one thing; old timers. I'm an old timer and I do think for myself

Continue with your agenda

Edited January 28, 2006 by MeanGreen61

[mad dog]

It still does not negate the "Cold Hard Facts" of:

1.  3 winning seasons in 8 years.

2.  Overall record of 33-55 (41%)

3.  #107 out of 117 D-1A teams......and much lower if you count the D-1AA teams that are ranked above us.

4.  Name one D-1A coach that has survived in his current position with this record??

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Didn't I just mention why those figures don't mean that much to some of us?

[KingDL1]

Defense ? What about the 2003 offense ? Isn't offense & defense the whole story?

2002 Offense - 249 points scored (19.15 ppg avg)

2003 Offense - 358 points scored (27.54 ppg avg)

2002 Defense - 192 points allowed (14.77 ppg avg)

2003 Defense - 285 points allowed (21.92 ppg avg)

2002 point spread v opponents - +4.38

2003 point spread v opponents - +5.62

Just cold, hard facts. Have a nice day

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Sorry have been gone but could not resist. My posts were about paying attention to what really happened, who we beat, how we beat them, and what their team's status was when we played them.

2002 to 2003 offense is not a very real picture but your stats are true. Keep in mind that Scott Hall was knocked out for the season the first game against UT in 2002.

It is my opinion, and you can take this how you want, that our offense would have been at its best in 2002 thanks to our defense if Scott had been healthy. Even at that by the end of the 2002 season Andrew had developed enough that our team was at its best in the NO Bowl of 2002.

And to me as a whole we have been slipping ever since the 2002 bowl game.

[PlummMeanGreen]

MeanGreen61---

You can come up with offensive and defensive information or come up with what Coach Dickey has done for the last 3 years compared to his first 5 or any other variation but:

It still does not negate the "Cold Hard Facts" of:

1.  3 winning seasons in 8 years.

2.  Overall record of 33-55 (41%)

3.  #107 out of 117 D-1A teams......and much lower if you count the D-1AA teams that are ranked above us.

4.  Name one D-1A coach that has survived in his current position with this record??

If you are satisfied with this mediocrity then I can accept your decision of living in mediocrity and hoping that "next year" will be THE year.

There are many of us who do not accept this mediocrity.  These figures are an absolute embarrasement, at least to me.  I have seen NTSU/UNT play football since 1966 and I have never seen us ranked SO low, kept a non-preforming coach for SO long and have alum say that a 41% winning percentage, after 8 years, is fine with me.....because i just want to be mediocure and a "yes man" to whatever RV and the BoR tells me. 

If college taught some of us old timers one thing it is to think for ourselves.  I do not know what they are teaching now but sounds like some of you are proud to be mediocure and proud to be #107 out of 117.  hahahahahahhaha

Gee Plum, KingDL and et. al.........things have changed.......it is no longer, "be the best you can be" ....  now it is, "strive to be mediocure."

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Well, since KingDL1 brought this "lost thread" back to the top today, I will respond to those who say the aforementioned numbers posted by eulesseagle don't mean anything to them and to some of that group many of us would ask this question: Why don't those numbers mean anything to you? Do any of you know any of the NT constituency who want to annually give $250, $500, $1,000, $2,500 and more to help fund and enable those who are just hunky-dory being bottom feeders?

Those of us who have been involved with NT football as alums for most of our adult lives do take those kind of numbers eulesseagle has posted most very seriously. I don't understand why we are supposed to continue our loyalty and to keep enabling those who keep these kind of numbers a-comin' at UNT, either. There is a time to be loyal, but then there is a time to just admit things are not going upward and/or forward or things (in general) are really not going to improve and to just cut our losses and move forward with something different for a change.

Edited February 11, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen

[flyonthewall]

Plumm, you can find me on the list of "capital campaign donors" in your program. I am not satisfied with the current state of the football program. Forget wins and losses, that is frustrating enough. Our kids are not disciplined. They committ penalties. They look more talented than some of the other teams that we play but are not well prepared. Our offensive game plan lacks any creativity.

My guess is promoting Kenny Evans (aka the Fake Lonnie Finch on this board) to assistant head coach and hiring a new d-coordinator is meant to help fix the defense. However, my argument is the offense needed for fixing. The defense played inspired hard football last year with very young kids.

Please someone answer who the guy in charge of recruiting Dallas signed this year?

I am starting to wonder if Mr. Flanigan has pictures of someone doing something lewd or illegal in a filing cabinet somewhere?

Untill they quiet us or we are proved wrong I going to keep demanding excellence.

I donate money to make this program better. In any endeavour you are either improving or declining, you never stay the same. Which direction is football moving in now?

[meangreen11]

The one thing I notice in all of these threads is noone looks at the contract issues. My understanding is we extended DD's contract through 2009. It amazes me that noone ever wants to consider the financial issues behind these decisions.

[flyonthewall]

Talk to Bobby Ray about extending DD's contract.

[PlummMeanGreen]

The one thing I notice in all of these threads is no one looks at the contract issues.  My understanding is we extended DD's contract through 2009.  It amazes me that noone ever wants to consider the financial issues behind these decisions.

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Well, I heard just last week that we could have possibly added a 12'th game in 2006 that would have had an approximate $800,000 pay-off (which I didn't realize gate guarantees were so high these days); but if that would have been the case, one football game pay-off such as that (even minus the expenses) would have gone a long way in helping to buy out DD's contract.

Although flyonthewall says our coaching is most un-creative (which many of us would totally concur with his assesment on that subject) our UNT administrative leadership can be "VERY" creative when they need to get funds together such as those that would be needed to buy out DD's or anyone elses contract at our main campus.

After next Fall, DD will have only 3 seasons left on his contract if it is (in deed) suppose to end in 2009. One very high profile NT Ex also told me there were even some loopholes that could end DD's contract w/o hardly any additional expenses for UNT. He did not specify to me just what those loopholes were, though.

Our UNT leadership doesn't seem to recognize that our present Mean Green football program will ever be accused of being one that is presently swimming with the mainstream NCAA D1-A sharks. Sadly, they even seem almost content with the results they have been getting of late; after all, it has been that group who are extending all these coaching contracts to those not even close to .500 with their W/L records--not any of us.

We also seem to have a Chancellor who must think he is leading a private university system with some of the attitudes we are already getting from his own little hit squad such as the NT branding group with their (already) well documented and almost pompous attitudes along with one of their mis-directed emails to a GMG.com poster and with one of our branding committee prodigies having the gall to say: "We don't have to answer to anyone on that board?"

But if NT leaders don't realize by now that all is hardly "quiet on the northern front" inasmuch as some of our alums just seem to think we can do better as we have on a higher profile in the past (and in due time, we will do better). It's just that we might have to have an entirely different set of NT leaders with the testerone and gonads similar to the leadership of the University of Idaho (Vandals) who just last week stepped waaaaaayyyyyyyyy........... outside their usual box to hire a new football coach who even has an NCAA D1-A National Championship under his belt, and that being the great Dennis Erickson. **** U of Idaho may have very subtely and indirectly helped our cause at the University of North Texas with their high profile hiring of Dennis Erickson.

NOTHING PERSONAL: A few may not be able to fathom that the criticism focussed on our alma mater's head football coach's performance record is hardly a personal attack on the man one Darrell Dickey; in fact, it is not anything even close to that at all. It's just all about what the record book shows us and what the present momentum of our football program is in context with those in NCAA D1-A we'd like to (once again) think we can be competitive with for the most part.

FWIW, I too, have been on the payroll of a job where the job and I simply did not have that special unique chemistry which makes for a good productive job whereas both parties (employer AND employee) were satisfied with the way things were progressing. I'd wager that even some of you may have had similar career experiences in past years.

But after 8 years (going on 9) and a taking a closer look at what our football media guide says loud/clear, in plain black and white and that publication showing all the reasons we are in our present state or low-standing among the other 117 schools in NCAA D1-A. All this after 8 years (and even during or after our 4 bowl game run) which clearly shows to those who choose to acknowledge it that we are simply not moving up the D1-A football ladder and that's even when we win games against the SBC/Bottom 10 (and go to bowl games).

It has been frustating for all of us to see the MAC's best football schools almost annually get Top 25 rankings, while the SBC's best (NORTH TEXAS) for most of its history has only garnered a few scattered votes here and there spread out over 4 the 4 years of our 4 bowl games. Even before last season when we had all the natinal pub with our 2 running backs, did any of you seen UNT listed for any Top 25 considerations with even just a vote here and there?

A BIT OVER-SIMPLIFIED BUT............All this just adds up to many now thinking DD and UNT just need to party ways, ie, shake hands and part friends with (preferrably) a mutual understanding of why that should happen with no hard feelings from either side (if that at all possible in today's American workforce). Of course, things usually don't work out quite as simple as that, now do they? In fact, too many times lawyers get involved with such separations at some outposts.

But for many, this has always been about which DD-led football teams have been playing and beating (or not beating) with the overall results no matter what they are on the scoreboard still showing our alma mater's football program being absolutely and totally land-locked at the same level it was (I think even lower) than it was when DD first arrived in Denton.

ARE WE GOING TO START SWIMMING WITH THE MINNOWS @ UNT?

One national recruiting service has our 2006 recruiting class at the bottom of the barrell in NCAA D1-A. At most D1-A school outposts, the respective leaders of all those schools would see such things as all the aforementioned in the last part of this post as most definite red flags, but what UNT leaders need to now concern themselves with is just how soon all this will start turning into red ink in Mean Green Country. So....................is one person on the payroll really worth all that at a school that is in the present position such as the University of North Texas is with its athetic program? I think we'd all agree that no one employee is worth such a sacrifice in the work world that you and I are part of every work day of the week, now are they?

Edited February 12, 2006 by PlummMeanGreen