A Crossroads For Rice Athletics

[MeanGreen61]

Domino effect possible

But even as a deal was reached, it also is clear that Rice's football issues only reflect bigger, deeper problems within the athletic program and between athletic department administrators and ivory-tower academic leadership.

ARTICLE - A Crossroads For Athletics At South Main

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports...ez/3492450.html

[NT80]

Domino effect possible

But even as a deal was reached, it also is clear that Rice's football issues only reflect bigger, deeper problems within the athletic program and between athletic department administrators and ivory-tower academic leadership.

ARTICLE - A Crossroads For Athletics At South Main

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports...ez/3492450.html

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I think you'll see this same scenerio play out at Tulane. Too much cost for a private school that doesn't want the funds drawn away from academics and because some admins think their academics are the only advertising the school needs anyway. Unless you're Notre Dame, USC, or Stanford, it's hard to justify a flighty private school with a poor football program trying to keep up.

[MeanGreenTeeth]

I think you'll see this same scenerio play out at Tulane.  Too much cost for a private school that doesn't want the funds drawn away from academics and because some admins think their academics are the only advertising the school needs anyway.  Unless you're Notre Dame, USC, or Stanford, it's hard to justify a flighty private school with a poor football program trying to keep up.

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Agreed. Rice is in a bit of a different boat. Its academic standards are greater and its admission cheaper than any of the private schools just mentioned. Keeping football is just a matter of pride for them. It doesn't really help them in any way.

[NTEagle08]

you could take all the alumni from Rice that are living and you would just barely fill Rice Stadium. I bet that place was cavernous this year with an average of around 10,000 in a 70,000 seat stadium.

[VideoEagle]

But the at least one of the reports they refer to strongly endorsed keeping football since in the South and Texas in particular, a college just wasn't "really college" without D1 football.

[SilverEagle]

But the at least one of the reports they refer to strongly endorsed keeping football since in the South and Texas in particular, a college just wasn't "really college" without D1 football.

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Rice could still have football, just not D-1 football. I believe that all of the Ivy League schools maintain their "really college" atmosphere by playing 1-AA football.

Rice could do the same.

[OldTimer]

Let Rice drop football and see what happens to their enrollment. I realize Midwestern State and UTA are not in Rice's class but their experience was that total enrollment deceased 15 to 24 % when they dropped football.

Not only the football team and their girlfriends, but the band and their signficant others and then others who just missed the atmosphere of athletics.

Autry field their basketball game gym if I remember correctly is small, non air conditioned.

I wonder how many wonderful faculty members will lose their jobs with a 15 to 25 % decrease in English, history, etc.

Oh, Midwestern restarted non scholarship football and their enrollment increased at least 10 % the next year.

[MeanGreen61]

Let Rice drop football and see what happens to their enrollment.  I realize Midwestern State and UTA are not in Rice's class but their experience was that total enrollment deceased 15 to 24 % when they dropped football. 

Not only the football team and their girlfriends, but the band and their signficant others and then others who just missed the atmosphere of athletics.

Autry field their basketball game gym if I remember correctly is small, non air conditioned.

I wonder how many wonderful faculty members will lose their jobs with a 15 to 25 % decrease in English, history, etc.

Oh, Midwestern restarted non scholarship football and their enrollment increased at least 10 % the next year.

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There's really no comparison of an effect on Rice vs UTA/Midwestern. The only decrease you might see at Rice would in the number of scholarship athletes at the university.

[NTEagle08]

Let Rice drop football and see what happens to their enrollment.  I realize Midwestern State and UTA are not in Rice's class but their experience was that total enrollment deceased 15 to 24 % when they dropped football. 

Not only the football team and their girlfriends, but the band and their signficant others and then others who just missed the atmosphere of athletics.

Autry field their basketball game gym if I remember correctly is small, non air conditioned.

I wonder how many wonderful faculty members will lose their jobs with a 15 to 25 % decrease in English, history, etc.

Oh, Midwestern restarted non scholarship football and their enrollment increased at least 10 % the next year.

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Rice wouldn't lose any students if they were to drop football. Rice is a private institution where most if not all the students are there because of the top rated academics that the school offers. I don't think you would find many Ivy League students say they went to one of those school because of athletics, unless of course they are an athlete. And besides, Rice gets more recogniztion for their stellar baseball team than they ever do with their dismal football program.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Rice wouldn't lose any students if they were to drop football. Rice is a private institution where most if not all the students are there because of the top rated academics that the school offers. I don't think you would find many Ivy League students say they went to one of those school because of athletics, unless of course they are an athlete. And besides, Rice gets more recogniztion for their stellar baseball team than they ever do with their dismal football program.

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---I fully agree.... there would no difference in enrollment if they downsized or dropped football... maybe a "very few" students would decide elsewhere but Rice would accept some other students to take their place. They could go to I-AA or just drop football and keep the other sports... There are a lot of recognized colleges without football programs. Their fan potential is terrible for a D-I program in football....They only have about 4000 students and not a lot of alums to fill the stands.......I don't see how they can financially support a D-I football program.....plus the situation is not ging to change.... it is not a growing university.

[Go_UTA]

I agree. Rice doesn't need football, at least not at Div I-A. They probably wish that they were surrounded by a lot of similar Ivy-type schools to play with...such as what Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Brown, etc. have with each other.

FWIW, UTA experienced an increase in enrollment after dropping football. I don't think football had very much influence on enrollment either way. Students were not going to the games.

[VideoEagle]

Rice wouldn't lose any students if they were to drop football. Rice is a private institution where most if not all the students are there because of the top rated academics that the school offers. I don't think you would find many Ivy League students say they went to one of those school because of athletics, unless of course they are an athlete. And besides, Rice gets more recogniztion for their stellar baseball team than they ever do with their dismal football program.

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Rice is not in the Northeast. Rice is in Texas. That's where they draw most of their students. The studies they refer to in the article were research done a couple of years ago and show most of the STUDENTS and alumni really want a D1 program. The faculty and administration don't always agree, but the wealthier alumni push football pretty hard.

Back in the 80's, they thought about dropping football and did a study to prove it would be a good idea. The study showed the opposite was true. At the time, even their faculty couldn't argue with the accuracy of the study.

And their baseball program has been good, but not necessarily stellar, till just the last couple of seasons.

Again, this is Texas and we play football.

Edited December 1, 2005 by VideoEagle

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Rice is not in the Northeast. Rice is in Texas. That's where they draw most of their students. The studies they refer to in the article were research done a couple of years ago and show most of the STUDENTS and alumni really want a D1 program. The faculty and administration don't always agree, but the wealthier alumni push football pretty hard.

Back in the 80's, they thought about dropping football and did a study to prove it would be a good idea. The study showed the opposite was true. At the time, even their faculty couldn't argue with the accuracy of the study.

And their baseball program has been good, but not necessarily stellar, till just the last couple of seasons.

Again, this is Texas and we play football.

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I would take a Rolls-Royce.... I can't afford one.... Rice probably wants to stay in I-A but can't afford to stay. Division I-A takes lots of money and support...

Trinity in San Antonio is rated high academically.... it is not division I and is surviving pretty well.. It is Division III.. there are a lot of Division III programs in Texas if they chose that route for football

Edited December 2, 2005 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[SouthernMustang]

I would take a Rolls-Royce.... I can't afford one.... Rice probably wants to stay in I-A but can't afford to stay.  Division I-A takes lots of money and support...

Trinity in San Antonio is rated high academically.... it is not division I and is surviving pretty well..  It is Division III.. there are a lot of Division III programs in Texas if they chose that route for football

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Go outside of the state of Texas and mention Trinity. It is a fine school, but people haven't heard of it. I don't think football is why Rice is known, but having D-1 sports does help with notoriety -- even if you are bad.

Rice was 8-4 in 2001 and had back to back winning season in 96 and 97 that were unrewarded (i.e. no bowls) b/c of the WAC's deals with the Western teams. They've typically won 4-5 games/year ... and they even drew an avg. of 20k per game last year despite going 3-8 or 4-7. Starting @ UCLA and @ Texas, and then the first winnable home game being delayed b/c of Rita certainly didn't help this year.

Rice could be a good "little" program much akin to Navy if they just got the right coach. They certainly don't have the NFL competition to deal with considering Rice will finish with a higher winning % than that excuse for an NFL-team down in H-town (and I hate the Cowboys too so I'm not just poking at Houston). haha. They need to do what Stanford is doing and downsize their stadium to fit around 30k, and then whore themselves out to some corporations to get it all paid for.

But if Rice did decide to drop football, I don't think they'd see any enrollment decreases. Rice only has 2700 undergraduate students as it is and they're not growing. Rice is very comparable to Emory, a school that doesn't have D-1 sports and is still very well-known academically. I would expect Rice to keep that sort of reputation if they dropped football, but that's just IMHO.