"Where Are The Fans?"

[GoMeanGreen1999]

On 10/3/2024 at 10:02 AM, UNTLifer said:

https://dentonrc.com/sports/colleges/mean_green/brett-vito-eric-morris-becoming-familiar-with-age-old-unt-issue-with-fan-support/article_66fde1a2-7e84-11ef-9b5a-7316195ea700.html

Eric Morris had just finished talking about an emphatic win over Tulsa on Saturday when UNT’s coach took time to address what has become an age-old topic when it comes to the program.

Where are all the fans?

The stands were pretty empty to start when UNT kicked off its game against Golden Hurricane at DATCU Stadium. It didn’t get much better throughout the night and emptied out by the time the Mean Green finished off a 52-20 win.

I guess he is out on campus weekly drumming up support?  Out in the community doing things and being seen?  

 

[Green Lantern]

On 10/4/2024 at 10:41 AM, SilverEagle said:

Looks like a good sign to hang in the offices of every administrator and employee of the athletic department. And also.....

2. The UNT Alumni Association

The better sign to UNT admins related to this group would be “Quit hiring outside talent when you have dedicated degreed alums on staff who would crush this leadership role”. Grass is NEVER greener (pun intended) outside the UNT family for these roles. It’s a passion business.
 

All our experienced and highly regarded alums that worked there and/or in tangentially related UNT Advancement roles have been poached away by other institutions (SMU, Colorado, OK State, Sam Houston, A&M Commerce, amongst others) or left for private sector roles that compensate appropriately because of being passed over for external hires (minus the smart KFra hire) time and time again. 

[TheColonyEagle]

Haven’t seen this mentioned, but once again……

We started the season out pretty well. Got some local and national attention, to the point we were a trendy pick. “Tech better watch out!” Reece Davis on ESPN Game Day picked us as his “superdog”. We were starting to turn a corner regarding perception. 
 

And not only do we get beat, we got absolutely destroyed on national TV. Outclassed, out coached, out played and embarrassed. 
 

We were taking a few steps forward only to get hit in the face ONCE AGAIN and get launched back to what many think is our rightful place. 
 

How many people paying attention to our game vs TTech didn’t even bother to look at the schedule to see our next games much less make plans to show up. This probably happened about halfway through the 2nd quarter of that game. 
 

We are in a situation where we have no room for error. When you’re in this situation, no amount of marketing can overcome getting embarrassed like we were in Lubbock. We had our chance. Blew it. 
 

so this comment from the article:  

“He’s held up his end of the bargain.”

depends on the lens we use and the standard we apply. if we use the standard of “holy crap it’s a miracle we’re 4-1 and we never do this” then Yes, he’s held up his end of the bargain. And yes. This start is the exception not the norm. But if we want the casual fans to show up, that standard won’t work. So if we use the standard of “we need to be ranked or pushing the top 25 and knocking on the door of the playoff. Getting national attention getting national credibility” which WILL get the casual fan to show up, then Eric Morris’s performance in Lubbock means he did NOT hold  up his end of the bargain. 
 

The coach at UNT, whoever it is, cannot have it both ways. 

Edited October 6, 2024 by TheColonyEagle

[SilverEagle]

7 minutes ago, Green Lantern said:

The better sign to UNT admins related to this group would be “Quit hiring outside talent when you have dedicated degreed alums on staff who would crush this leadership role”. Grass is NEVER greener (pun intended) outside the UNT family for these roles. It’s a passion business.
 

All our experienced and highly regarded alums that worked there and/or in tangentially related UNT Advancement roles have been poached away by other institutions (SMU, Colorado, OK State, Sam Houston, A&M Commerce, amongst others) or left for private sector roles that compensate appropriately because of being passed over for external hires (minus the smart KFra hire) time and time again. 

They keep thinking that Athletic Department jobs (especially fan development) can be done by anyone. That must be why, since the days of Bob Tyler, after head coaches (and their assistants) have had time to settle in, they all look around and say "what the hell is the matter with these people?".  Bob Tyler was the first to say it out loud, but many others wanted say the same thing. I appreciate Coach Morris for saying it out loud again. 

[Marty]

I went to the coaches show with Mac & SL. Mac was a master, he would work the room, shaking everyone's hand. SL would usually just stand to the side. If he talked to anyone,it would be to the regulars on the front table. Haven't been since Morris took over. If he's skipping out early, seems like a violation of his contract. 

[aprice]

The underlying issue has less to do with sports and more to do with the university as a whole.  We have the stigma of being a second choice school, or a school that is for working class kids who can't afford to move hundreds of miles away. 

There is some truth to this, but how do you get people to be proud of this accomplishment instead of hiding from it?  Its kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.  If the alumni base largely sees themselves as inferior to some other brands, why would an outsider think any different?  

Texas is so large that getting into the flagship schools isn't even possible for most college students.  If you look at small states like Kansas, OK, AL, OR, etc, it is very easy to into their flagship schools because there just isn't as much competition.  But they don't have any issue showing pride in their school.  Being in this state puts a school like ours in a unique disadvantage, partially because the PUF has held back most of the public universities, but also because the perception that comes with not being the flagship school.

How do you overcome this?  I don't know.

[Ross Hodgeson]

19 minutes ago, aprice said:

The underlying issue has less to do with sports and more to do with the university as a whole.  We have the stigma of being a second choice school, or a school that is for working class kids who can't afford to move hundreds of miles away. 

There is some truth to this, but how do you get people to be proud of this accomplishment instead of hiding from it?  Its kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.  If the alumni base largely sees themselves as inferior to some other brands, why would an outsider think any different?  

Texas is so large that getting into the flagship schools isn't even possible for most college students.  If you look at small states like Kansas, OK, AL, OR, etc, it is very easy to into their flagship schools because there just isn't as much competition.  But they don't have any issue showing pride in their school.  Being in this state puts a school like ours in a unique disadvantage, partially because the PUF has held back most of the public universities, but also because the perception that comes with not being the flagship school.

How do you overcome this?  I don't know.

Yes I think UT just changed to requiring top 5% for admission which puts it way out of reach for most.

But I don't think UT is the issue, it's schools like Arkansas and OU that rob us of a lot of students that are looking for more spirit and pride in their college experience.  I think we suffer from an attraction to students that want a cheap education and the convenience of being close to home.  Arkansas students from DFW area don't have the luxury of driving home every weekend when you have a 9-10 hour commute.

[Hookset]

On 10/3/2024 at 12:02 PM, UNTLifer said:

Where are all the fans?

Actually the question is ‘Where are the students?’

Most fans sit on the west side. When I looked around it was 3/4 full and the lower section of the north end zone was 3/4 full. Student section was less than half full. There was also a large Tulsa following on the east side. DATCU is loud when the students show up.

Hell, I come even when we’re bad. Don’t understand why the students don’t show up when we are playing well.

[greenminer]

10 hours ago, aprice said:

The underlying issue has less to do with sports and more to do with the university as a whole.  We have the stigma of being a second choice school, or a school that is for working class kids who can't afford to move hundreds of miles away. 

There is some truth to this, but how do you get people to be proud of this accomplishment instead of hiding from it?  Its kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.  If the alumni base largely sees themselves as inferior to some other brands, why would an outsider think any different?  

Texas is so large that getting into the flagship schools isn't even possible for most college students.  If you look at small states like Kansas, OK, AL, OR, etc, it is very easy to into their flagship schools because there just isn't as much competition.  But they don't have any issue showing pride in their school.  Being in this state puts a school like ours in a unique disadvantage, partially because the PUF has held back most of the public universities, but also because the perception that comes with not being the flagship school.

How do you overcome this?  I don't know.

Stop losing.  Just go undefeated.  I don't know why we bother with the losses! People would come.  People would be proud.

[NM Green]

One thing we could do is lift the pride of a UNT education. I’m proud but I’m talking about representing us as world leaders, making global impact, changing lives, executing important humanitarian missions, winning national and internationally recognized awards.

We are doing this in the world stage. Build the pride wins games bring all these pieces together. Watch the Mean Green Pride soar. 

GMG

[Meangreen Fight]

On 10/3/2024 at 12:06 PM, SUMG said:

It's pretty obvious....a lot of our fans are in the Portal. I know so many hard cores who no longer come to games. The portal/NIL was the final straw for many. And this is my 50th year as a fan....I plan on making it my last......as an "in person" fan. 

 

 

On 10/3/2024 at 12:28 PM, Monkeypox said:

UNT's record over the last 20 years is 89-149. We are 1-6 in Bowl Games. We have had 4 winning seasons (that's being generous about a 7-7 finish). Our best players are poached every year.

Why would that program have fans outside of the handful of diehards on this board, especially in this state and this area where people have options?

Most casual fans don't understand the slimy anticompetitive mafia like business of revenue college sports.  I find it ironic that when a few players get a more fair share of the economic pie that is the bridge too far for long time diehards.   Most alumni came to the school for an education in spite of other school with better athletic programs.  And unlike TCU and SMU, their parents probably did not have funds to give their college graduate a head start financially so that by the time they are 30 they have 10k of disposable income to throw at college athletics.  

The program has been bad for most of my life.  And the City of Denton has always wanted to be more of a bedroom community than a college town.  I really didn't know how unfortunate that was until I spent time in college towns.  Denton of 25 years ago was almost hostile to North Texas Athletics

[rcade]

1 hour ago, Meangreen Fight said:

Denton of 25 years ago was almost hostile to North Texas Athletics

Denton 25-35 years ago was still distinct from the Metroplex. Locals should have appreciated that more while they had it. I know I did in the years I was attending UNT from 1988-1991.

[MeanGreen22]

On 10/4/2024 at 4:53 PM, aztecskin said:

I think there is something to the fact that people that choose to go to other schools made that choice and factored in the school spirit. North Texas does not have a lot of die-hard sports fans in our number.  

The thing that always baffles me is that UNT does not lack for sports fans. But we do lack for UNT sports fans. Trust is earned over a long period of time so I *think* if we can sustain of level of competitiveness without a huge drop off or let downs, you could see a point where we average 25k+ for a season. But then on the flip side you see basketball do what they do and still struggle with consistent attendance. So idk… glad it’s not my job to figure this out. 

[WanderingEagle]

It takes sustained success over multiple years is the thing. I grew up a Baylor fan during the Morris-into-Briles years and watched it with them. Baylor didn't sell out their first home game (against SMU no less) in 2012 after they had a record breaking season and a freaking Heisman winner. I remember being at that game and pretty disappointed there were large chunks of FCS empty. Then they went on to an 8 win season and a second consecutive bowl win. Then in 2013 they won the Big 12 and went 11-1 and their season average of tickets sold was the highest in that stadiums history. I was at two games against OU and Texas that year and they were both complete sellouts if i recall.

UCF didn't sell out their first game in 2018 after going undefeated and even claiming a national championship. TCU was 5,000 short of a sellout in their first home conference game as a Big 12 member in 2012. For schools like us it requires a pattern. 

Just simple math. Nobody cares about a team that goes 7-5 and loses its bowl every year. You can make fun of games like the Cheez It Bowl or the Pop Tart Bowl or whatever but they do matter! Gotta set a standard of winning when it counts so that it hurts when you don't. Then we won't see a half empty stadium for a 4-1 team.

[HoustonEagle]

I used to drive up from Houston for most home games.  Had club seats for the whole family.  I drank the green Kool-aid in gulps.  I truly thought our arrow was pointing up once the stadium was built but alas I was wrong.  We are still in a competition to be the tallest midget.   Our school still accepts 80% of students.  We still don't have big money donors that can springboard us to new heights.  Our signature wins are games like Arkansas when they were absolutely terrible that year. Now the addition of NIL is raising big money influence on college football to new unattainable levels for G5,6,7ers.  Reality has set in for many of us long timers.  NT will always be NT, a great community that we all enjoyed but lacking in any notoriety across athletics or academics.  That's ok.  It's just reality.  My time there has served me well.  I still watch the games on TV if I can.    I just don't dream of being big time.  It's never going to happen.  

[TIgreen01]

7 hours ago, WanderingEagle said:

It takes sustained success over multiple years is the thing. I grew up a Baylor fan during the Morris-into-Briles years and watched it with them. Baylor didn't sell out their first home game (against SMU no less) in 2012 after they had a record breaking season and a freaking Heisman winner. I remember being at that game and pretty disappointed there were large chunks of FCS empty. Then they went on to an 8 win season and a second consecutive bowl win. Then in 2013 they won the Big 12 and went 11-1 and their season average of tickets sold was the highest in that stadiums history. I was at two games against OU and Texas that year and they were both complete sellouts if i recall.

UCF didn't sell out their first game in 2018 after going undefeated and even claiming a national championship. TCU was 5,000 short of a sellout in their first home conference game as a Big 12 member in 2012. For schools like us it requires a pattern. 

Just simple math. Nobody cares about a team that goes 7-5 and loses its bowl every year. You can make fun of games like the Cheez It Bowl or the Pop Tart Bowl or whatever but they do matter! Gotta set a standard of winning when it counts so that it hurts when you don't. Then we won't see a half empty stadium for a 4-1 team.

This.  We need to win consistently and we need continuity.  Since I've been following, nothing about the UNT athletic program ever transcends a class of players or one coach and sustains into the next set of players or coaches.  We did that to ourselves by knee-jerking our coaching hires with a 180 degree opposite coach (or schematic philosophy) every time we ran someone off.  We cleared out long-time, loyal, assistants and others who would stick with UNT.  I didn't much care for the Eric Morris hire when it was announced.  However, this is the first time in 30 years that the AD has actually given us a chance to carry forward momentum from one staff to the next and build some continuity...and more importantly, an identity.  Now we need Morris to continue to win.  And if he doesn't, keep guys like Pat Cobbs around, and any others like him who just love the school, want to be here and are doing a good job.  As others have said, we absolutely need alums who bleed green to be the backbone of what we do.  We can't allow outsiders to come in and wipe out everything to start from zero with "their people".  There has to be a balance.

Mosely did the same thing by making sure we kept Hodge around when Mac left.  It's a really positive sign that this AD understands what it takes to build a program.  Something we've never actually done in the almost 30 years I've followed.

[BBA1989]

I'm only able to come to 1 game this season(Army), so I have been donating my tickets back to the athletic department.  Too much going on this season and hard to drive up from Houston.  They still haven't sent my season ticket holder gift.  Hmmm

[WanderingEagle]

On 10/9/2024 at 9:15 AM, HoustonEagle said:

I used to drive up from Houston for most home games.  Had club seats for the whole family.  I drank the green Kool-aid in gulps.  I truly thought our arrow was pointing up once the stadium was built but alas I was wrong.  We are still in a competition to be the tallest midget.   Our school still accepts 80% of students.  We still don't have big money donors that can springboard us to new heights.  Our signature wins are games like Arkansas when they were absolutely terrible that year. Now the addition of NIL is raising big money influence on college football to new unattainable levels for G5,6,7ers.  Reality has set in for many of us long timers.  NT will always be NT, a great community that we all enjoyed but lacking in any notoriety across athletics or academics.  That's ok.  It's just reality.  My time there has served me well.  I still watch the games on TV if I can.    I just don't dream of being big time.  It's never going to happen.  

Spare me with this. "NT will always be NT" is a loser mindset. If you want to have that mindset I can't stop you. 

Baylor ascended from the literal pits of an abyss MULTIPLE times! TCU ascended. SMU is ascending and overcame the death penalty. 

If you want to whine about "signature wins" not being wins then do that when we lose to Memphis Army or Tulane. That's the first time we've beat FAU in Boca since 2012 and our prior head coach loses that game 100/100 times. This is our first 5-1 start since 2018. 

If you think NT cannot ever wake up from its "sleeping giant" phase then that's fine, but it *is* a loser mindset and one I'm not going to respect. I will forever want the best for my school and athletic program.

[HoustonEagle]

On 10/13/2024 at 9:50 PM, WanderingEagle said:

Spare me with this. "NT will always be NT" is a loser mindset. If you want to have that mindset I can't stop you. 

Baylor ascended from the literal pits of an abyss MULTIPLE times! TCU ascended. SMU is ascending and overcame the death penalty. 

If you want to whine about "signature wins" not being wins then do that when we lose to Memphis Army or Tulane. That's the first time we've beat FAU in Boca since 2012 and our prior head coach loses that game 100/100 times. This is our first 5-1 start since 2018. 

If you think NT cannot ever wake up from its "sleeping giant" phase then that's fine, but it *is* a loser mindset and one I'm not going to respect. I will forever want the best for my school and athletic program.

I won't push back on you at all!  It is a losers mindset.  I so desperately want to be proven wrong and perhaps you and others like you will be the ones that unlock all of the potential that UNT displays.  As a person that has looked behind the curtain I will say it's a much steeper uphill climb than you imagine.  The biggest of all the problems is money.  The programs you mentioned have a ton of it and as to now, we don't.  TCU spent an absolute fortune and combined with good timing or luck, was in a perfect position to fill an open spot in the Big 12.   SMU is doing the same.  Houston the same. They are spending numbers that we can't even fathom at UNT.  If UNT is to ever unlock our potential it will be because we found our rich alums that can force us to the top of the heap.  I will say I am very pessimistic this will ever happen.  We are a school with a legacy of producing wonderful teachers, musicians and artist.  Billionaires on the other hand, we have very few of.  That said it really only takes one if they are super motivated.  Hopefully we find that person.