PAC is back

[Wag Tag]

UNT again the attraction is market size. This is true from the point of conference exposure and recruiting. With the growth of Utah you need to add Utah State.

[Green Otaku]

I doubt we would be considered, but it would all come down to money. We will eventually be making $7M a year in the AAC, plus it takes $10M and 27 months notice to leave the conference. I don't think they can get a media deal high enough to match or even pass what the AAC gets.

[Cougar King]

It's funny how before the Pac 12 imploded and UT/OU just announced they were leaving the Big 12, UH, Texas Tech, Ok State and TCU approached about joining but were turned away because the Pac 12 presidents didn't realize what USC and UCLA were plotting. 

 

 

 

That being said, Pac can go in several directions with this.

 

-Get UNLV and either UTSA, Texas State or Memphis

 

-Some combination of UNLV, Air Force, Memphis, Tulane, UNT/UTSA/Texas State

-Convince the Dakotas and Montanas to finally go to FBS if the TV numbers add up. (Reminder that Montana turned down invites from the WAC and MWC in the past because of financial feasibility concerns) 

 

-Nothing is predictable with this anymore so something absurd like Ohio State would join.

[DentonStang]

1 hour ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

For now.  If the PAC know Cal and Stanford are coming back, and if Cal and Stanford know they'll have an invitation, they can all afford to wait it out.

And I would think SMU would try to sneak in with them.

Why would Cal and Stanford take something like an 80% revenue cut to go to a non-P4 league. That's bananas.

[Mean Green 93-98]

4 minutes ago, CMJ said:

I thought UT just didn't want to lose their network and that was the major holdup. 

That was a big part of their going to ANY conference.  But you can go back before the Longhorn Network existed, 30 years ago, when UT and A&M were looking to go their separate ways.  A&M was considering the SEC, while UT was looking mostly at the PAC, but also at the Big 10 and ACC, basically anywhere BUT the SEC.

Once the SEC became the richest conference, UT's perspective changed.

 

[Mean Green 93-98]

6 minutes ago, DentonStang said:

Why would Cal and Stanford take something like an 80% revenue cut to go to a non-P4 league. That's bananas.

The question was in the scenario of the ACC imploding.  A fairly likely scenario, if not imminent.

[Rudy]

NT joining the new look PAC, or the AAC poaching the remaining MWC schools?  I'll take either.

 

As it looks now, either one would be a win.

[Cooke County Kid]

I want whatever is best for UNT!!!

[EAGLE83]

How will impact the playoffs. Will they get automatic bid.

[Cougar King]

3 minutes ago, EAGLE83 said:

How will impact the playoffs. Will they get automatic bid.

 

No conference has an autobid. It's top 5 champions regardless of conference .

[NT80]

34 minutes ago, Rudy said:

NT joining the new look PAC, or the AAC poaching the remaining MWC schools?  I'll take either.

 

As it looks now, either one would be a win.

Should we be buyers, sellers, or just spectators?

 

[wardly]

So from what I have gleaned this morning from several podcasts is that the PAC 2 [now PAC 6 with pending additions of SDSU, FSU, CSU, and BSU] needs to add 2 more programs by July 2026. Their stated goal is to put together the best "West Coast Conference" that they can." Speculation is that they are taking a wait and see approach to the possible implosion of the ACC with an outside chance of reclaiming Cal and Stanford. Everyone doubts this is a viable option but the PAC 6 has some time and they will have no problem adding 2 additional teams. Who might they be? Well the AFC and Colorado State are in the same market so it would appear the Falcons are out, and evidently UNLV doesn't ring the bell. Back filling with 1AA programs from the states of Montana ,North and South Dakota doesn't, in my opinion, work. First these are small universities in sparsely populated states. Second they would be required to increase football scholarships from 63 to 85 which would be extremely expensive. Third they are required to pay $5 million fee to NCAA for moving up. Finally, they must make a major commitment to generating NIL monies which is only going to increase annually. The next two additions will be tv driven which eliminates Texas. Who on the west coast wants to watch UTSA, UNT, or Texas State? Besides, none of them have a pot to piss in when it comes  NIL money. I was surprised that the announced Saturday attendance at the Texas Tech away game at Washing State was only 27,000. So who will be the other two members of the best "West Coast Conference" OSU and WSU can put together? I don't have a clue other that it won't be a problem.

[Jason Howeth]

9 minutes ago, wardly said:

So from what I have gleaned this morning from several podcasts is that the PAC 2 [now PAC 6 with pending additions of SDSU, FSU, CSU, and BSU] needs to add 2 more programs by July 2026. Their stated goal is to put together the best "West Coast Conference" that they can." Speculation is that they are taking a wait and see approach to the possible implosion of the ACC with an outside chance of reclaiming Cal and Stanford. Everyone doubts this is a viable option but the PAC 6 has some time and they will have no problem adding 2 additional teams. Who might they be? Well the AFC and Colorado State are in the same market so it would appear the Falcons are out, and evidently UNLV doesn't ring the bell. Back filling with 1AA programs from the states of Montana ,North and South Dakota doesn't, in my opinion, work. First these are small universities in sparsely populated states. Second they would be required to increase football scholarships from 63 to 85 which would be extremely expensive. Third they are required to pay $5 million fee to NCAA for moving up. Finally, they must make a major commitment to generating NIL monies which is only going to increase annually. The next two additions will be tv driven which eliminates Texas. Who on the west coast wants to watch UTSA, UNT, or Texas State? Besides, none of them have a pot to piss in when it comes  NIL money. I was surprised that the announced Saturday attendance at the Texas Tech away game at Washing State was only 27,000. So who will be the other two members of the best "West Coast Conference" OSU and WSU can put together? I don't have a clue other that it won't be a problem.

All that and you said literally nothing new, lol.

Edited September 12 by Jason Howeth

[wardly]

1 minute ago, Jason Howeth said:

All that and you said literally nothing new, lol.

Hey, just a recap. I guess the only new part was which 4 they picked, at least to me ,as I though UNLV would be included. Besides, I pay myself by the word. Have a great day!

[NT80]

13 minutes ago, wardly said:

So from what I have gleaned this morning from several podcasts is that the PAC 2 [now PAC 6 with pending additions of SDSU, FSU, CSU, and BSU] needs to add 2 more programs by July 2026. Their stated goal is to put together the best "West Coast Conference" that they can." Speculation is that they are taking a wait and see approach to the possible implosion of the ACC with an outside chance of reclaiming Cal and Stanford. Everyone doubts this is a viable option but the PAC 6 has some time and they will have no problem adding 2 additional teams. Who might they be? Well the AFC and Colorado State are in the same market so it would appear the Falcons are out, and evidently UNLV doesn't ring the bell. Back filling with 1AA programs from the states of Montana ,North and South Dakota doesn't, in my opinion, work. First these are small universities in sparsely populated states. Second they would be required to increase football scholarships from 63 to 85 which would be extremely expensive. Third they are required to pay $5 million fee to NCAA for moving up. Finally, they must make a major commitment to generating NIL monies which is only going to increase annually. The next two additions will be tv driven which eliminates Texas. Who on the west coast wants to watch UTSA, UNT, or Texas State? Besides, none of them have a pot to piss in when it comes  NIL money. I was surprised that the announced Saturday attendance at the Texas Tech away game at Washing State was only 27,000. So who will be the other two members of the best "West Coast Conference" OSU and WSU can put together? I don't have a clue other that it won't be a problem.

Well, Cal and Stanford are locked into the ACC, they aren’t coming back to join a Boise State, et al. 
 

And you just eliminated every other feasible candidate West of the Mississippi.  So much for being the best “West Coast Conference”. 

 

[Coffee and TV]

Anyone want to fill me in on the whole "The ACC is imploding" stuff? The only thing I've ever heard about the ACC having problems would be losing Clemson and Florida State, but even then they'd probably be in a better position than any other G5 conference. 

[Green Otaku]

3 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

Anyone want to fill me in on the whole "The ACC is imploding" stuff? The only thing I've ever heard about the ACC having problems would be losing Clemson and Florida State, but even then they'd probably be in a better position than any other G5 conference. 

People think if those 2 leave it will open the floodgates for others to exit as well. The ACC schools want to make as much as the B1G and SEC so if there is a path to leave for Clem/FSU why couldn't the others. It would help solidify the P2 if they can grab the rest of the valuable brands like Virginia, UNC, Miami, etc.

[Matt from A700]

2 hours ago, MeanGreenGlory said:

While many on this board laugh at SMU for giving up revenue to join the ACC, they're playing the long game and I think it'll work out well for them in the end. I don't think they'll end up in their dream scenario, but I do think the move to the ACC—however short or long that ends up being—will pay dividends.

A similar notion would be true for UNT, and this potential (and highly skeptical) move to the PAC. 

Hear me out...

I think it's inevitable that the SEC and BIG10 will eventually do one more round of expansion, partner, and become the equivalent of the "pro college league." That league will be the #1 dog, no questions asked.

After that, it'll be a mad scramble for all the other Division 1 schools and conferences to figure out what to make of themselves. Additional realignment and consolidation will happen at that time.

The conferences involved in the mad scramble will be the ACC, BIG12, American, PAC, Mountain West, Sun Belt, MAC, and Conference USA. 

And just as conference realignment has worked thus far, you want to be as high up the pecking order as possible to get the next call "up."

If there's a high likelihood that the reformed PAC will successfully establish itself as being better than the American and Mountain West (and I think they'll do that if they select the best of the MWC and great media markets from the American), then UNT should strive to get an invite and make it happen. It may be a 2-year home or a 10-year home, but at some point, additional shifts will happen, and the higher up we are in the pecking order, the better. 

Personally, I think the American group that @NT80 suggested is spot on and would make it a compelling conference:

WEST

• Washington State
• Oregon State
• Boise State
• San Diego State
• Fresno

EAST

• Colorado State
• North Texas
• UTSA
• Memphis
• Tulane

There's much less fluff in this conference, reasonable travel within the regional pods, some solid media markets, and competitive football and basketball. 

 

Go Mean Green!

I'm OK with less fluff, but there's no way UNLV doesn't join the Pac-12 too, so we need one more out our way in this hypothetical.

Edited September 12 by Matt from A700

[NT80]

1 minute ago, Green Otaku said:

People think if those 2 leave it will open the floodgates for others to exit as well. The ACC schools want to make as much as the B1G and SEC so if there is a path to leave for Clem/FSU why couldn't the others. It would help solidify the P2 if they can grab the rest of the valuable brands like Virginia, UNC, Miami, etc.

If it’s a feeding frenzy, the Big12 may be buyers also. 

[Green Otaku]

One thing I will say is UNT is making a big push for engagement. Last week it was to set a student attendance record, and next home game it's to sell out the game vs. Wyoming. Coincidence that this is happening during this PAC announcement? Maybe, but there is no way the internal AD doesn't know about certain rumblings.

[Green Otaku]

2 minutes ago, NT80 said:

If it’s a feeding frenzy, the Big12 may be buyers also. 

For now I think the GOR is keeping that conference together, or it would be like sharks to bait. I can't remember if FSU is still in court about the GOR, but if they could have found a way out I think they would have by now.

[Coffee and TV]

3 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

One thing I will say is UNT is making a big push for engagement. Last week it was to set a student attendance record, and next home game it's to sell out the game vs. Wyoming. Coincidence that this is happening during this PAC announcement? Maybe, but there is no way the internal AD doesn't know about certain rumblings.

Sheesh, if everyone ends up in 3 conferences of 25 teams at some point then what's even the advantage? I bet in 5-10 years time we'll see them all break up again. I'm going to blame A&M for all of this, this all started when they went to the SEC. 

[untjim1995]

The new Pac is smart by OSU and WSU. Playing Wyoming, San Jose State, Hawaii, and New Mexico provides very little in help. Travel is expensive and they carry very few eyeballs.

Air Force, Utah State, UNLV and Nevada will probably be next on their list. That gets them to ten and it keeps them in the same footprint they've all been used to. The invites to Gonzaga and St. Mary's will be coming soon, too, just to add in more names for a revenue sport.

I doubt they expand East. For decades, we have waited for the MWC to come back to Texas after TCU left. And all that UTEP, UNT, SMU, Rice, and UTSA saw were nothing. I can see Hawaii going independent. I think Wyoming, SJSU, and New Mexico may very well be SBCUSA teams very soon. Maybe the AAC sees value in UNM, but I doubt it.

 

[ForneyGreen]

20 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

Sheesh, if everyone ends up in 3 conferences of 25 teams at some point then what's even the advantage? I bet in 5-10 years time we'll see them all break up again. I'm going to blame A&M for all of this, this all started when they went to the SEC. 

Actually, I think about Arkansas and their original defection to the SEC from the SWC back in the day.  At that time, the Arkansas defection from the SWC was shocking and very unusual... today, teams move around all of the time.  🙂 

the PAC2+ will be a glorified G6 conference, but it does offer some big financial incentives in the short term.  It would be interesting if the PAC2+ wants to include a couple of Texas schools to get to 8 members (e.g. UNT & Rice ... D/FW and Houston).

[wardly]

35 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Well, Cal and Stanford are locked into the ACC, they aren’t coming back to join a Boise State, et al. 
 

And you just eliminated every other feasible candidate West of the Mississippi.  So much for being the best “West Coast Conference”. 

 

I don't see that any of the 3 G6 programs in Texas add anything to a PAC 6 rebuild. I aree with you that Stanford and Cal are locked into the ACC. Even if it implodes and Clemson/FSU bail out the others could stay and still have a "Big 12" type of conference . Two programs that may be caught in the middle who are west of the Mississippi are Tulane and Memphis should the PAC 6 wish to reach that far.  However the tv money the PAC 6 offers will probably be in the $3 to $5 million range similar to the MWC and AAC. In addition, all you are doing is moving from one G6 program to another which is not their goal. Their best bet is probably to sit tight and be available should expansion opportunities in the ACC or Big 12 arise.