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If you can accept we are a minor league now


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Then I feel like you can sort of get behind it.  I am not saying that you have to like the system, but I think if we accept who we are and what we are it gets easier.  At least for me.

Gone are the days where I thought we had a chance at moving into a P5 conference.  I just don't see that happening now.

I do think we can still have some fun albeit playing in a lower level.

In high school, in my freshman year we had two football squads, the "A" team and the "B" team.  I was on the B team but got to play the position I wanted and had more fun than I would have sitting the bench on the A team.

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1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

I bet you were not around during NT's 1aa days, are you would know that it was a disaster.  You think attendance and coverage are bad now, it was almost non-existent than. 

The benefits of playing D1 go far beyond athletics.  It is a relatively exclusive club that provides more exposure to the school than anything else.  Students may not ever go to a game, but it is very possible that their introduction to NT begin with coverage of NT's athletic teams. 

As far as your analogy to high school, playing is better than not playing, but what does that have to do with NT's sports?  Are you advocated that NT drop down to give lesser players a chance to play.  Invest some of that money saved by dropping D1 sports to build a fantastic intramural program.   

I guess I am questioning the level or amount of support and funding we are giving to the various programs.  The neighborhood we reside in has changed.  We need to address how we financially support the various programs in this new world order is all I am saying.

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2 hours ago, Jonnyeagle said:

In high school, in my freshman year we had two football squads, the "A" team and the "B" team.  I was on the B team but got to play the position I wanted and had more fun than I would have sitting the bench on the A team.

I was on the Pauline G. Hughes Middle School B basketball team in the early 1980s with @FirefightnRick. I find your comment very triggering. Some of us had to ride the bench even on the B team. When I finally got to play I spun around the defender for an uncontested lay-up and hit the ball so hard off the boards it landed out of bounds. Then I did the same thing again. The coach laughed like hell about it afterwards.

As for UNT, I try to keep our circumstances in perspective. Being in a decent G5 conference is miles above what it was like to support the team during the I-AA years. And the AAC still brings me happy tears because it isn't CUSA and our commissioner's name doesn't rhyme with Doody McDowd.

Edited by rcade
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19 minutes ago, Jonnyeagle said:

I guess I am questioning the level or amount of support and funding we are giving to the various programs.  The neighborhood we reside in has changed.  We need to address how we financially support the various programs in this new world order is all I am saying.

I am questioning why you decided to use that title for this thread.

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3 hours ago, MrAlien said:

The AAC is a good conference, it has taken this school decades to get here, and is a very good achievement for a school that does not usually put a lot of emphasis into its athletic program.  The school has some very good athletic facilities that as good if not better then some P5 schools. 

The big thing that I see holding UNT back is the culture, students seem less interested every year in attending games, and as they graduate and become alumni they are less interested in supporting the schools athletics. 

This is the biggest threat to our Athletics program:  campus indifference, lack of school spirit and sports support.   Cal is having the same issue.   The key is to recruit sports fans from the surrounding communities to fill the gap.  Eventually as the teams get better, and better quality opponents, the games become an event, even to nerds and wallflowers.

Edited by NT80
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Or get good. I mean all of these dormant alumni would proudly talk about them being UNT Alumni if we have a FOOTBALL run like Boise or Cincinnati or Memphis or SDSU or Coastal Carolina, even JMU. It’s bizarre that in all these years I’ve followed the Mean Green we’ve never hired a coach that has led us to a magical run.

Meanwhile UTSA gets Coker and Traylor in a span of a few years. FAU gets Schellenberger and Kiffin.

If Morris doesn’t deliver I hope the next coach has won as a head coach at the collegiate level equal or better to the AAC.  Napier comes to mind but he couldn’t win above the SBC as the head guy. Experience has always mattered in my book. 

GMG

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3 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Dan McCarney won at Iowa St and was supposed to be that "experienced" P5 coach.   He did win us a New Years Day game in the Heart of Dallas Bowl with a huge NT crowd, but soon after crashed to a pitiful career ending vs Portland St.

I've always felt when someone says that a coach "won" at X school.....that meant he had a winning record. DMc was about 30 games under .500 at ISU. 

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3 hours ago, NT80 said:

Dan McCarney won at Iowa St and was supposed to be that "experienced" P5 co....

 

Mac lost interest. 

I buy tickets to a FBS college football game. I ain't going minor league.

Edited by RBP79
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1 hour ago, SUMG said:

I've always felt when someone says that a coach "won" at X school.....that meant he had a winning record. DMc was about 30 games under .500 at ISU. 

The context of "winning" at Iowa St is the key...

McCarney served as head coach at Iowa State University from 1995 to 2006. During that span, McCarney led the Cyclones to five bowl games, second to Matt Campbell for the most in Iowa State history. The Cyclones had been to only three bowl games in their entire history before his arrival. In their first bowl appearance under McCarney, the 2000 Insight.com Bowl, the Cyclones notched their first bowl win in school history. His 56 wins and 85 losses are both school records.

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19 hours ago, NT80 said:

The context of "winning" at Iowa St is the key...

McCarney served as head coach at Iowa State University from 1995 to 2006. During that span, McCarney led the Cyclones to five bowl games, second to Matt Campbell for the most in Iowa State history. The Cyclones had been to only three bowl games in their entire history before his arrival. In their first bowl appearance under McCarney, the 2000 Insight.com Bowl, the Cyclones notched their first bowl win in school history. His 56 wins and 85 losses are both school records.

McCarney hire was a milestone for NT, the first time they actually spent competitive money to hire a head coach.

Unfortunately, McCarney was not well; suffering from vision problems, drinking issues and probably other ailments. 

A combination of his physical status and NT's lack of resources were too much to overcome.   

Edited by GrandGreen
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8 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

McCarney hire was a milestone for NT, the first time they actually spent competitive money to hire a head coach.

Unfortunately, McCarney was not well; suffering from vision problems, drinking issues and probably other ailments. 

A combination of his physical status and NT's lack of resources were too much to overcome.   

He had a drinking problem? 

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On 7/10/2024 at 11:29 AM, GrandGreen said:

I bet you were not around during NT's 1aa days, are you would know that it was a disaster.  You think attendance and coverage are bad now, it was almost non-existent than. 

The benefits of playing D1 go far beyond athletics.  It is a relatively exclusive club that provides more exposure to the school than anything else.  Students may not ever go to a game, but it is very possible that their introduction to NT begin with coverage of NT's athletic teams. 

As far as your analogy to high school, playing is better than not playing, but what does that have to do with NT's sports?  Are you advocated that NT drop down to give lesser players a chance to play.  Invest some of that money saved by dropping D1 sports to build a fantastic intramural program.   

We were in the 1AA Southland Conference for 12 years from 1983 thru 1994 with average attendance of 12,300 , 60% of Fouts capacity . Hayden Fry was coach for 6 years from 1973 thru 1978 with average attendance of 13,300, still about 60% of capacity. We opened Apogee in 2011 and 13 years later we are averaging about 20,000, just a little over 60% of capacity. Regardless of our level of competition or size of stadium we have not been able to grow our attendance percentage in proportion to our student body and metroplex graduates.

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On 7/10/2024 at 1:41 PM, NM Green said:

Or get good. I mean all of these dormant alumni would proudly talk about them being UNT Alumni if we have a FOOTBALL run like Boise or Cincinnati or Memphis or SDSU or Coastal Carolina, even JMU. It’s bizarre that in all these years I’ve followed the Mean Green we’ve never hired a coach that has led us to a magical run.

Meanwhile UTSA gets Coker and Traylor in a span of a few years. FAU gets Schellenberger and Kiffin.

If Morris doesn’t deliver I hope the next coach has won as a head coach at the collegiate level equal or better to the AAC.  Napier comes to mind but he couldn’t win above the SBC as the head guy. Experience has always mattered in my book. 

GMG

This is the answer, poor pick after poor pick for head coach have wasted decades and countless fans. Littrell was close, but ultimately didn't get there. All of the teams you named invested, brought in great hires, and made big runs to improve their reputations. If Morris fails, we need to open up the checkbook and get a real name head coach, or poach someone like JMU had last year.

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14 hours ago, Big Z said:

He had a drinking problem? 

Dan McCarney, when he first got here, was the closest thing we have had to being a salesman as Hayden Fry was. HE believed that this place was going to be huge, as we were opening a new stadium, preparing to go to CUSA in a few years from the first edition of the SBC, and sitting in the middle of the Texas recruiting hotbed. He went on media outlets to tell everyone how exciting the future was here. He was great with TX HS coaches. He would talk to any UNT gathering he could to see the program.

And that's when the Apathy Monster defeated him. DMac thought recruiting would be easy here. But he ran an antiquated offense that nobody in the state ran or wanted to run. The TX HS Coaches liked him, but they didn't like that offense and they knew the UNT Apathy better than he did. He had no idea of the decades of apathy he was fighting. He couldn't understand why people didn't show up for games in Denton. He even wondered why the HOD Bowl game in Dallas on NYD could have such a huge green crowd show up for us playing UNLV but wouldn't show up for a conference game in Denton. Eventually, the stress and his coping with it thru drinking almost killed him, as he suffered a stroke. And he was never the same after that. And neither were his teams. What Dodge had recruited was put to use in a solid way by DMac and his staff, but what they had recruited couldn't come close to replicating the same talent he had inherited, especially at the skill positions. And two years later, with the worst collection of QBs we have ever had, we hit rock bottom in the worst loss in modern college football history, that 66-7 loss at home to FCS Portland State on Homecoming. He was rightly fired immediately after the game and the rest is history. Similar to Littrell, having had some success here got him an extension, but it just meant that we had to buyout more in the end.

Hoping Morris' tenure will be different, but so far, nothing has suggested we are on a different path.

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On 7/10/2024 at 2:52 PM, NT80 said:

This is the biggest threat to our Athletics program:  campus indifference, lack of school spirit and sports support.   Cal is having the same issue.   The key is to recruit sports fans from the surrounding communities to fill the gap.  Eventually as the teams get better, and better quality opponents, the games become an event, even to nerds and wallflowers.

How does one recruit sports fan? Winning would do a lot for that.

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On 7/12/2024 at 1:33 PM, Hunter Green said:

How does one recruit sports fan? Winning would do a lot for that.

Another way is maybe stop recruiting so many Liberal Arts majors. Not to offend anyone, but you do not find too many sports fans amongst Art, Music, Dance etc. majors. Also, maybe we should get away from all these commercials that scream nerd and we want people with no drive. Maybe add in a little more sports clips with the students having fun at all sporting events. All this is just my opinion.

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3 hours ago, Venson said:

Another way is maybe stop recruiting so many Liberal Arts majors. Not to offend anyone, but you do not find too many sports fans amongst Art, Music, Dance etc. majors. Also, maybe we should get away from all these commercials that scream nerd and we want people with no drive. Maybe add in a little more sports clips with the students having fun at all sporting events. All this is just my opinion.

If this theory were true wouldn't there be a strong core of business and other "sports loving" majors that have been fans for decades? Where are they?

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3 hours ago, Venson said:

Another way is maybe stop recruiting so many Liberal Arts majors. Not to offend anyone, but you do not find too many sports fans amongst Art, Music, Dance etc. majors. Also, maybe we should get away from all these commercials that scream nerd and we want people with no drive. Maybe add in a little more sports clips with the students having fun at all sporting events. All this is just my opinion.

Lets drop school teachers, science majors , engineers ,and anyone else who might contribute to society after graduation.

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23 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

If this theory were true wouldn't there be a strong core of business and other "sports loving" majors that have been fans for decades? Where are they?

Right here!  Business major.  

We have historically been a mostly teacher's college, plus music and arts majors, some business and science.   We don't have the core of wealthy law, medical, and engineering alums that other university's have.

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