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Morris signals it is over


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Business, great business is about relationship. The big school fans have relationships with their patches. That nostalgia that comes over them when an I gets dotted or a Tiger roars at night or when you hear Rockytop on the march into the stadium. 

The majority of fan bases have relationships with players. I’m talking MWC AAC ACC Big 12 and half of the big 10 and sec. When you kill the relationship building process you squash the long term product success. That is why you will eventually see multi year contracts to preserve the sport. Everyone keeps saying college football is healthy better than ever rich and limitless. I disagree. It’s healthy for the big boys right now. But for the mass and I’m talking about 105 programs, you see the cracks. It will fall apart and those 25 - 30 programs will succeed - everyone else will adjust. 

You will have some very rich and everyone else having fun again too. It’s just the messy stage. It’s going to get uglier before it all settles into a new place. 

Never give up give in and remember relationships will set this free. Relationships between schools natural rivals players fan bases and trophies. Lots of trophy opportunities.

GMG

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16 hours ago, NT80 said:

It is exactly the same as 1-AA or FCS.  G5 is just a different title for it.

It's all money-driven.  More money needed from media for fewer elite teams to be able to pay player salaries.

Next will be Dl basketball splitting into Dl-A.  The Top 6-8 basketball conferences forming their own league.

All of this should happen, ASAP. 

The mistake you make about comparing 1-aa to G5s today is not true. We gave up in 1982 while the SWC and Big Eight were giants in the CFB world. Between 1981-1995, The SWC/Big Eight had Nebraska, Oklahoma, Colorado, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, SMU, Texas, Arkansas, Texas A&M, and Houston have teams that would finish in the Top Ten. Meanwhile, in Denton, we were playing conference games against something called Northeast Louisiana, Stephen F. Austin, Sam Houston, McNeese State, and Nicholls State. Literally, whatever little support we had got nuked.

Now today, playing schools in the same level of play like SMU, TCU, Baylor, Tulane, Tulsa, Houston, Rice, UTSA, UTEP, and Texas State would bring a lot more eyeballs to North Texas than anything we have ever seen in Denton. And then adding in the idea that we can legitimately play for a title in football, you'll get more interest tan UNT has ever had.

If you ever think we should be playing Texas, A&M, OU, etc...in equal standing, you'll be sorely disappointing. Its just not gonna happen. EVER.

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13 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

All of this should happen, ASAP. 

The mistake you make about comparing 1-aa to G5s today is not true. We gave up in 1982 while the SWC and Big Eight were giants in the CFB world. Between 1981-1995, The SWC/Big Eight had Nebraska, Oklahoma, Colorado, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, SMU, Texas, Arkansas, Texas A&M, and Houston have teams that would finish in the Top Ten. Meanwhile, in Denton, we were playing conference games against something called Northeast Louisiana, Stephen F. Austin, Sam Houston, McNeese State, and Nicholls State. Literally, whatever little support we had got nuked.

Now today, playing schools in the same level of play like SMU, TCU, Baylor, Tulane, Tulsa, Houston, Rice, UTSA, UTEP, and Texas State would bring a lot more eyeballs to North Texas than anything we have ever seen in Denton. And then adding in the idea that we can legitimately play for a title in football, you'll get more interest tan UNT has ever had.

If you ever think we should be playing Texas, A&M, OU, etc...in equal standing, you'll be sorely disappointing. Its just not gonna happen. EVER.

The separation now from P4 to G5 is informal.  The formal relegation of G5 to some lower tier is what I am against.  We have played top level football schools in all of our football history, just not as conference members usually.  Our first game ever was against TCU.  

The lineup you mention about would be great.  But Smut, TCU, Baylor, and Houston have visions of staying in the top "power" tier or whatever fake name they assign it.  

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4 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I can see how it looks similar, but I would say that with today's landscape, it's a different world. It's one thing playing against schools with larger budgets, but when you start having your best players picked off year after year when they can get paid, it adds a variable that Dickey or other coaches in the past never had to deal with. He did not have to deal with the fact that schools could pay players to be practice squad members more than most G5s can afford to pay players.

You make a good point. I still don’t like that he said it publicly though. 

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22 minutes ago, NT80 said:

The separation now from P4 to G5 is informal.  The formal relegation of G5 to some lower tier is what I am against.  We have played top level football schools in all of our football history, just not as conference members usually.  Our first game ever was against TCU.  

The lineup you mention about would be great.  But Smut, TCU, Baylor, and Houston have visions of staying in the top "power" tier or whatever fake name they assign it.  

Whatever visions they all have aren't gonna matter to any of the Big 30-40 teams or their networks.

And whatever the history was for everyone but the huge powers in the CFB world flat out won't matter. Teams like BYU and Pitt are very likely to get relegated down, as will many others higher up the foodchain. The days of Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Northwestern, Purdue, West Virginia, Rutgers, Iowa State, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Cal, as more examples, of being power teams are ending sooner rather than later. Teams like Tech, OSU, and Kansas State are all on the line of either being included or getting excluded down the road. I figure there are 40 power teams when its all said and done for football. Probably about 60 teams for basketball. And that'll be it.

 

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1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

Whatever visions they all have aren't gonna matter to any of the Big 30-40 teams or their networks.

And whatever the history was for everyone but the huge powers in the CFB world flat out won't matter. Teams like BYU and Pitt are very likely to get relegated down, as will many others higher up the foodchain. The days of Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Northwestern, Purdue, West Virginia, Rutgers, Iowa State, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Cal, as more examples, of being power teams are ending sooner rather than later. Teams like Tech, OSU, and Kansas State are all on the line of either being included or getting excluded down the road. I figure there are 40 power teams when its all said and done for football. Probably about 60 teams for basketball. And that'll be it.

 

And I'm ok with the Top 40-45 football powers doing their own playoff...as long as the weak links are demoted.  It's not a true Power league with the likes of Smut and the schools you name above making the cut. 

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3 minutes ago, NT80 said:

And I'm ok with the Top 40-45 football powers doing their own playoff...as long as the weak links are demoted.  It's not a true Power league with the likes of Smut and the schools you name above making the cut. 

Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Northwestern, Purdue, West Virginia, Rutgers, Iowa State, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Cal

SMU is below those schools....so if they're not included (they won't be....there's a huge difference between Ohio St, Texas, Bama and those schools) then SMU for sure won't be.

 

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1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

Whatever visions they all have aren't gonna matter to any of the Big 30-40 teams or their networks.

And whatever the history was for everyone but the huge powers in the CFB world flat out won't matter. Teams like BYU and Pitt are very likely to get relegated down, as will many others higher up the foodchain. The days of Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Northwestern, Purdue, West Virginia, Rutgers, Iowa State, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Cal, as more examples, of being power teams are ending sooner rather than later. Teams like Tech, OSU, and Kansas State are all on the line of either being included or getting excluded down the road. I figure there are 40 power teams when its all said and done for football. Probably about 60 teams for basketball. And that'll be it.

 

This is exactly what I’ve been saying.  Let the top 30 or 40 be the professional league and let the rest of us get back to playing college football.

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14 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

Morris didn't say anything that most of us haven't already said or felt. Quite frankly, what he said has been true for a lot longer than many of us want to admit. Our lack of commitment to athletics (whether you want to blame it on administration, students, alumni, or realistically all of the above) has set us back and has been an issue for years. It still hasn't changed, and it's going to continue to come back to bite us for years to come. There has to be a clear divide at some point, even though I would argue there's been a fuzzy divide for a long time. It's just a matter of time at this point that it becomes crystal clear. We are not going to be in the top tier of that divide. Our stakeholders (I use this broadly and there are clear exceptions) have made that choice over however many years now. It's just going to finally come to a head.

Flawed logic in my view.  It is not a lack of commitment to athletics, it is the inability to raise the level of funds necessary to compete at the highest level.  

You really think the average Alabama fan is anymore committed to sports than the average NT fan?  If anything, I would say the average NT fan is more committed.  It doesn't take near as much effort to support a dominant top tier program as a fringe team with very limited resources and the loses that go along with that funding level.  

There are maybe a handful of athletic programs outside of the B10 and SEC that can really compete in D1 football.  Most D1 schools are dependent on school and student funds to even field football teams.  That is the exact opposite of your expressed point that it is somehow the fault of the administration, students or alumni that schools like NT can't compete.   

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Here’s a quick list of a possible Mini Professional league.  I really think I would be great if the Top 30 broke away.  That would leave a lot of name teams and I think would be nothing at all like DII, but rather a very good league that would have lots of interest.

The point is not to argue the teams I listed.  I know several on here are debatable and I didn’t list a few that could probably be here.  This is not a researched list,  so there could also be a few teams that I simply didn’t think about.

Top 25 (in no particular order)

Michigan

Ohio St.

Nebraska 

Penn St

USC

UCLA

Washington

Wisconsin

Oregon

LSU

Alabama

Tennessee 

Ole Miss 

aTm

Texas

Oklahoma

Georgia

Florida

Florida St

Clemson

Miami

Auburn

Arkansas

Notre Dame

Iowa

Next 20 (again, no particular order, but I did give state schools a bit more preference otherwise I would definitely take off Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota, Kansas, and South Carolina…and probably Kentucky, Colorado, and Virginia).

Arizona

Utah

North Carolina 

Michigan St

Kentucky

Illinois

Minnesota

Virginia 

Colorado 

Arizona St

Missouri 

Texas Tech

Oklahoma St.

South Carolina 

Indiana

Kansas

Mississippi St.

Baylor

Virginia Tech

Syracuse

 

 

Edited by NT93
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Good post about the teams. My only change would be Michigan State up and South Carolina up, Iowa down and perhaps Ole Miss down.

GMG

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23 minutes ago, NM Green said:

Good post about the teams. My only change would be Michigan State up and South Carolina up, Iowa down and perhaps Ole Miss down.

GMG

I think the Top 25 I listed are in without a doubt.  The only question for me is which and how many of the remaining 20+ teams join them. 

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6 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Northwestern, Purdue, West Virginia, Rutgers, Iowa State, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Cal

SMU is below those schools....so if they're not included (they won't be....there's a huge difference between Ohio St, Texas, Bama and those schools) then SMU for sure won't be.

 

You are talking about $MU.  They could buy their way into the top Power Conference.

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6 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

You really think the average Alabama fan is anymore committed to sports than the average NT fan?

Honestly, yes. I think the average Alabama fan commits more of their personal resources and time to supporting the team than the average NT fan.

6 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

That is the exact opposite of your expressed point that it is somehow the fault of the administration, students or alumni that schools like NT can't compete.

I feel like our revenue numbers prove that the commitment just isn’t great.

That’s a reflection of administration decisions (dropping to I-AA “lack of commitment to athletics”), general lack of interest from students (“lack of commitment to athletics”), and general lack of financial support from fans (as you even mentioned “lack of commitment to athletics”).

6 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Most D1 schools are dependent on school and student funds to even field football teams.

Forcing a tax on students is not “commitment”

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22 hours ago, TIgreen01 said:

Wrong.  It is exactly the portal and NIL.  I am losing interest every time I read an article talking about who won in the transfer portal.  It's all the same schools just stealing the best performing players from another school.  Out bidding each other.  Illegally tampering.  If this goes unchecked for any longer, I'm out.  It's not fun to watch this crap happen.

I said people were going to have to get used to just cheering for the shirt, and I've tried.  It's just that you can't get away from it.  Everything you read about college sports in the offseason is about who is stealing the best players for next year now.  That, to me, sucks. 

Well actually the Portal and NIL are a microcosm of what is happening around the world. Don't lose sight of the big picture. 

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20 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Whatever visions they all have aren't gonna matter to any of the Big 30-40 teams or their networks.

And whatever the history was for everyone but the huge powers in the CFB world flat out won't matter. Teams like BYU and Pitt are very likely to get relegated down, as will many others higher up the foodchain. The days of Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, Northwestern, Purdue, West Virginia, Rutgers, Iowa State, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Cal, as more examples, of being power teams are ending sooner rather than later. Teams like Tech, OSU, and Kansas State are all on the line of either being included or getting excluded down the road. I figure there are 40 power teams when its all said and done for football. Probably about 60 teams for basketball. And that'll be it.

 

Let’s assume you’re correct and more schools will be relegated down to what will be perceived as a lower class division. 

Think about what that does to us. Some of these schools routinely attract 45,000-65,000 fans on a typical Saturday. Sure that may drop off some if they are demoted but how do you think we stack up to them with our 8,000 game day fans? 

Should your hypothesis be correct than those schools would take the best of the current G5 and form a separate league with its own playoff system. ESPN and other networks would jump on it. Too much tradition with those schools  

North Texas would be excluded and fall back to 1AA. 

You can take that to the bank. 


 

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51 minutes ago, meangreenbob said:

Let’s assume you’re correct and more schools will be relegated down to what will be perceived as a lower class division. 

Think about what that does to us. Some of these schools routinely attract 45,000-65,000 fans on a typical Saturday. Sure that may drop off some if they are demoted but how do you think we stack up to them with our 8,000 game day fans? 

Should your hypothesis be correct than those schools would take the best of the current G5 and form a separate league with its own playoff system. ESPN and other networks would jump on it. Too much tradition with those schools  

North Texas would be excluded and fall back to 1AA. 

You can take that to the bank. 


 

Ok, that's ridiculous. We aren't keeping a football program if we are going down to a level that is playing SFA and ACU as conference mates. But playing in a setup where the current lower tier Power teams get relegated would actually benefit us greatly.

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6 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

Ok, that's ridiculous. We aren't keeping a football program if we are going down to a level that is playing SFA and ACU as conference mates. But playing in a setup where the current lower tier Power teams get relegated would actually benefit us greatly.

What he's saying is why would those teams want to be associated with us? The hypothetical TCUs, Houstons, Cincys, Syracuses, etc would band together and form their own division, one that wouldn't include UNT. Why would those schools suddenly want to be associated with us? Would you want to be in a league with Angelo State and Tarleton? That's the same drop Baylor and Tech would view us as.

I agree with what he says, they would grab whatever the best of what's left over and we would be on the outside looking in.

Edited by Green Otaku
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It begs the question, if we are moving back down to I-AA, why spend so much money on football?  The money would be better spent on basketball which has far fewer scholarships, and perhaps we could finally rekindle baseball again which would be fun.

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On 5/9/2024 at 11:06 AM, TIgreen01 said:

Wrong.  It is exactly the portal and NIL.  I am losing interest every time I read an article talking about who won in the transfer portal.  It's all the same schools just stealing the best performing players from another school.  Out bidding each other.  Illegally tampering.  If this goes unchecked for any longer, I'm out.  It's not fun to watch this crap happen.

I said people were going to have to get used to just cheering for the shirt, and I've tried.  It's just that you can't get away from it.  Everything you read about college sports in the offseason is about who is stealing the best players for next year now.  That, to me, sucks. 

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  Only the biggest schools with the most money are benefiting from NIL.   There are no rules and tampering has become the standard.  They are killing my interest in following college athletics.   I would rather go back to the Stars then suffer through this dung.

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On 5/8/2024 at 4:05 PM, ntmeangreen11 said:

That's a pretty wild defeatist attitude from your head coach. Kind of explains why they won't even try with a certain level of prospect. I've been saying it since last year, the sooner we start cutting the football budget to add to the basketball budget the better off we will be. That is the only sport we have a chance to be nationally relevant in. We didn't capitalize on the sun belt championships, we didn't capitalize on the new stadium, we didn't capitalize on the conference change, we were a middling or below average team in a bottom 2 conference for most of the last 20 years, that window has closed. 

It's forever go mean green, but the (albeit far-fetched) dream is over.

Morgan Freeman Applause GIF by The Academy Awards

 

I don't understand how our own fans/alum or administration can't see this. Yeah, Yeah - I get it. This is TEXAS!!!!!!!! But I also get simple math and resource allocation. 

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1 hour ago, meangreenbob said:

Let’s assume you’re correct and more schools will be relegated down to what will be perceived as a lower class division. 

Think about what that does to us. Some of these schools routinely attract 45,000-65,000 fans on a typical Saturday. Sure that may drop off some if they are demoted but how do you think we stack up to them with our 8,000 game day fans? 

Should your hypothesis be correct than those schools would take the best of the current G5 and form a separate league with its own playoff system. ESPN and other networks would jump on it. Too much tradition with those schools  

North Texas would be excluded and fall back to 1AA. 

You can take that to the bank. 


 

I get what you’re saying, but if the Top 40 break off, you don’t think we’d be in the next 40?  Surely we can crack the top 80.

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