In defense of Littrell

[UNTethered Eagle]

12 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

I think the risk is greater than you are accounting for. Better money and facilities do not guarantee success. We have just as much chance of being as bad as now 3-8 LaTech (who lost to a 2-9 Charlotte today) next year as we do being as good as UTSA.

This is the underlying point we’re debating here - do we “play it safe”

or “roll the dice” going into a new conference next year? I’m personally part of the roll the dice crew because I’m not seeing the potential for a big turn around in a tougher conference, especially if better money and facilities mean as little as you mentioned.
 

But I understand that if Littrell wins out there is no way he gets let go. Much speculation around what scenario let’s him go, or keeps him for that matter.
 

 

[untphd]

Roll the dice with a 7 year plan in the making of who our new coach will be. Doesn't the AD have plans to continue to improve the product on the field and who can make this happen?

[MeanGreenTexan]

18 hours ago, keith said:

Let's review those OOC wins over the last 3 years...

Texas State (finished 2-10)

SFA (non-major finished 6-4)

Lamar (non-major finished 1-9)

Illinois (finished 5-7)

Memphis (finished 6-6)

UNLV (finished 2-10)

Army (3-6 so far)

Texas Southern (non-major 5-5 so far)

Collectively, major OOC foes with a 18-39 W/L record or 30-57 if you include non-majors.  Basically only one team they beat OOC in the last 3 years finished with a winning record and that was Stephen F. Austin at 6-4.  Teams and coaches cannot control who they play, but some seem to always get teams when they are down...luck of the draw.   

I see a B1G team & 2 teams we lost to less than 3 months ago!   Memphis & UNLV both have losing records today as well.

Why are you citing this as any kind of knock on UTSA, yet not applying the same to NT?

Did they win a Championship last year?   Are they likely going to again this year?  Were they ranked in the top 25 last year?  
Has Littrell accomplished any of this?

And I saw in another thread where someone had the audacity to knock UTSA because they play in CUSA, and that’s the only reason they were able to win so many games & be ranked!  Hello!?!  We play in the same conference!  Why aren’t these our expectations?

[keith]

41 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I see a B1G team & 2 teams we lost to less than 3 months ago!   Memphis & UNLV both have losing records today as well.

Why are you citing this as any kind of knock on UTSA, yet not applying the same to NT?

Did they win a Championship last year?   Are they likely going to again this year?  Were they ranked in the top 25 last year?  
Has Littrell accomplished any of this?

And I saw in another thread where someone had the audacity to knock UTSA because they play in CUSA, and that’s the only reason they were able to win so many games & be ranked!  Hello!?!  We play in the same conference!  Why aren’t these our expectations?

Believe me, there are plenty of things to be upset with our historical performance in football.  I was replying specifically to someone who touted UTSA's OOC record and when you look at the facts, the teams they beat were on a down year.  Sometimes you get lucky with scheduling and get teams when they are down.

Nope, Littrell hasn't won a championship and hasn't been ranked in the top 25.  However, he does have a win against a top 15 team.  Traylor doesn't have that.  Traylor has a win against a B1G team, Littrell has a win against a SEC team.  Both Traylor's win and Littrell's win against P5 teams were when they were in down years.  

I think you and I are arguing for the same thing...consistency and fairness in evaluation.  What I hear are a lot of emotional arguments one way or the other.  I've made my case last year and recently that UTSA benefited greatly by the luck of the scheduling draw last year.  I actually think they are a better team this year than they were last year.  

Looking at the last 12 or so conference games, Traylor has 1 loss (to Littrell), Littrell has 2 (1 to Traylor).  From that perspective they are a lot closer than you'd think.  Given that Traylor has had the benefit of the best QB in the league and Littrell hasn't (if you agree with many here on GoMeanGreen), then one could argue that Littrell has done a better *coaching* job than Traylor...maybe not a better recruiting job, but better coaching what he has.  If we are able to get past Rice he will have an opportunity to even it up.  Let's let the season play out before we anoint UTSA kings of the ant hill.

[greenminer]

On 11/19/2022 at 2:05 PM, keith said:

He's also 0-2 in bowl games.

It's funny that any amount of success/wins we have had (not great, but we have had some) in C-USA is discounted as meaningless because anyone with a pulse can win against the worst conference in the country, but UTSA's success against that exact same competition is characterized as evidence of greatness or passing us by.  We need some collective consistency in how we evaluate teams/coaches.  

I'm not defending our coach as the tread title implies, just throwing some facts out for everyone.  Since it's a what have you done for me lately world, looking at the last 12 conference games, Traylor is 11-1 (lone loss is to Littrell) and SL is 10-2.  Traylor (or rather his team) is manhandling Rice, so he will go to 12-1.   If Seth (the team) is able to beat Rice next week, he will improved to 11-2 in conference play over the last year and a half.  

We also need to figure out how to judge the admittedly watered down bowl games where players sit out and the game itself is treated more like an exhibition or glorified scrimmage that's just a vacation/party/reward for the players.

UTSA ranked now.  again.

[southsideguy]

On 11/19/2022 at 3:56 PM, keith said:

Let's review those OOC wins over the last 3 years...

Texas State (finished 2-10)

SFA (non-major finished 6-4)

Lamar (non-major finished 1-9)

Illinois (finished 5-7)

Memphis (finished 6-6)

UNLV (finished 2-10)

Army (3-6 so far)

Texas Southern (non-major 5-5 so far)

Collectively, major OOC foes with a 18-39 W/L record or 30-57 if you include non-majors.  Basically only one team they beat OOC in the last 3 years finished with a winning record and that was Stephen F. Austin at 6-4.  Teams and coaches cannot control who they play, but some seem to always get teams when they are down...luck of the draw.   

They beat UNLV and we got blown out by UNLV who a has losing record this year.

Edited November 20, 2022 by southsideguy

[TheColonyEagle]

4 hours ago, keith said:

However, he does have a win against a top 15 team.  Traylor doesn't have that.  

[outoftown]

I see this the following way. Currently coach Littrell may have a general .500 record and be 31-23 in conference (while having won no bowl games or conference titles). However things will change. NT will go to the AAC next year. Under SL NT played 32 games against teams that will be in the AAC next year. The record is 13-19, with an average score of 28-35.

SMU 1-6, average 23.6 - 44.7

UAB 1-4, average 23.0 - 35.8

UTSA 4-3, average 29.1 -26.3

Rice 5-1, average 30.7 -21.2

FAU 2-2, average 33.5 -44.0

Charlotte 0-2, average 29.5-44.0

Memphis 0-1, average 34-44.0

 

Add that he hasn't won a single OOC game vs an FBS team since September 2018, and that of the above mentioned 13 wins against future conference mates 8 came in the first three years while he is 5-13 in the last four years, and it becomes hard to argue that things are good enough for the new conference or even developing in the right direction.

If he beats Rice and UTSA (the two teams he has been doing best against) that will obviously change the mood, but the overall record against the future conference mates suggests he needs to do something quick to at least make it obvious he is on the right track. The UAB loss just looked so similar to the four straight UAB losses NT suffered in the last 5 years (couldn't get above 21 points on offense, couldn't stop the run-based offense).

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by outoftown

[UNTLifer]

21 hours ago, tmjerm said:

I love and appreciate Seth and he has brought us to new heights. He has been nothing but class about it winning AND losing.  He’s done a hell of a job to get us here.  Unfortunately, things have gotten very stale.  Unless he wins the conference and/or a bowl, we need a change.  I’m not certain we don’t need a change regardless.  One of the missing ingredients is ambassadorship.  If he wins that’s not as necessary, but the extroverted parts of the job aren’t really there. Forever grateful for his time here, but it’s time for change. 

Very well stated. We need a coach to create a following and to be involved on campus and in the community to create excitement around the program and a following for the team. 

[keith]

3 hours ago, greenminer said:

UTSA ranked now.  again.

At 9-2, they probably should be ranked.  Nice to see C-USA getting a modicum of respect.  With a final game against UTEP, they should finish 10-2.  Is I indicated elsewhere, I think they are probably better than the 2021 team. Hopefully we get another shot at them as revenge in the championship game would be sweet.  

[Tom McKrackin]

10 hours ago, UNTethered Eagle said:

But I understand that if Littrell wins out there is no way he gets let go.

Who says that?  Why should  just we accept mediocrity? Act inspired North Texas! Act inspired North Texas!

Edited November 21, 2022 by Tom McKrackin

[UNTethered Eagle]

13 minutes ago, Tom McKrackin said:

Who says that?  Why should  just we accept mediocrity? Act inspired North Texas! Act inspired North Texas!

Outside of numerous posters on this board I think it would be understandable for Seth to receive an extension if he wins out. 
 

Unless you know something we don’t?!

[southsideguy]

If you look at the MUTS and wonder how Stockstill keeps his job.  Give SL an extension and we are on way to live the dream that the MUTS has.

[NT80]

Win or lose vs Rice...

We will have beaten only one (1) team this whole regular season with a winning record  = WKU currently 7-5.

[Cr1028]

3 hours ago, southsideguy said:

If you look at the MUTS and wonder how Stockstill keeps his job.  Give SL an extension and we are on way to live the dream that the MUTS has.

Send him walking without a better replacement and we stand the chance of going back to the “good old days” with them pounding us 35-0 again.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Cr1028

[southsideguy]

So you are really thinking SL can be 500 coach in the AAC?   you are going to be disappointed.