Question for the board...

[UNTcrazy727]

46 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

I don’t do the Vito “compared to the rest of NT history” 

9 wins vs CUSA+the schedule NT had is not super impressive. 9 wins in 1956 is like a perfect season. There are variables. 

This is why I say “compete for the league title” and “be competitive in non-con”. Those criteria are generic enough to allow some room for error, but also hold the standard high enough. 9 wins is too weak. Might be against puffs. Bowl appearance is the the same. Conf title is against presumably comparable comp. Competitive non-con is similar, in that we had the schedule and prepared for those games. 

 

9 wins is pretty damn impressive considering the circumstances. We were just coming off a 3 year stretch where we only won 10 games. You mention variables in making your decision, but I think you’re forgetting context.  

[NorthTexasWeLove]

1 hour ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

9 wins is pretty damn impressive considering the circumstances. We were just coming off a 3 year stretch where we only won 10 games. You mention variables in making your decision, but I think you’re forgetting context.  

Those 10 wins were with a donkey offense and an old man calling the shots. We were playing checkers, everybody else playing chess. Any coach coming in and getting us into the 21st century schematically was going to see improvement. 

[aztecskin]

I don’t think it’s very hard to win 4 games in CUSA. Just takes some competence coaching and talent

Consider that USM won 2 and didn’t have a QB last year. Literally zero. 

This year FIU and Tech are bad. Giving out wins to any competent team that is willing to take it. UTEP is bad. FAU is mediocre. It was similar back in 17 and 18. The competition is with two other teams. Can you be competitive in those two games? (while also not tripping on the riff raff). 

[UNTcrazy727]

52 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Those 10 wins were with a donkey offense and an old man calling the shots. We were playing checkers, everybody else playing chess. Any coach coming in and getting us into the 21st century schematically was going to see improvement. 

You can try to discount it all you want. It’s still impressive to take over a dumpster fire program and lead them to back-to-back 9 win seasons. 

[2020 Sucks]

In the AAC, I’d like to think that we could go .500 the first year.  We will be a QB shy of having a really deep roster.  Seth has to win conference this year to get an extension…and I’m honestly against that.  But if he were to beat nUTSAk, he probably earns it.  We have to begin to out-recruit SMU.  Cincinnati proved last year that the AAC champ can play in the FBS championship levels.  But honestly, until out NIL program gets well off the ground, we will be lucky to land a 4* or keep our well developed youngsters.  Once we enter the AAC, there will be growing pains.

[Coffee and TV]

17 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

I don't know. You're the one that said the coach had to win a conference championship. 

Creates hypothetical, refuses to clarify. 

[NT80]

13 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

You can try to discount it all you want. It’s still impressive to take over a dumpster fire program and lead them to back-to-back 9 win seasons. 

That ship has sailed.  Mason Fine is gone.  

[UNTcrazy727]

8 minutes ago, NT80 said:

That ship has sailed.  Mason Fine is gone.  

What does this even mean?

Edited November 18, 2022 by UNTcrazy727

[UNTcrazy727]

20 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

Creates hypothetical, refuses to clarify. 

The point of the hypothetical was to show how ridiculous it is to say a coach has to win a conference title in 4 years. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

17 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

The point of the hypothetical was to show how ridiculous it is to say a coach has to win a conference title in 4 years. 

Ok, then 7? Or 8? Shit, 10? 

If you're here to simp for Littrell, people are fed up and it's not going to work. But, enjoy. 

[UNTcrazy727]

7 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Ok, then 7? Or 8? Shit, 10? 

If you're here to simp for Littrell, people are fed up and it's not going to work. But, enjoy. 

It was a conversation about expectations for a new coach's first four years. How is that related to Littrell? He is living rent free in your head. 

 

[untphd]

5 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

It was a conversation about expectations for a new coach's first four years. How is that related to Littrell? He is living rent free in your head. 

 

OK, how many years should it take?

[UNTcrazy727]

7 minutes ago, untphd said:

OK, how many years should it take?

If a coach is winning 7-9 games a year and has us towards the top of the conference its going to be REALLY hard to fire him. Honestly, he'd probably be hired away before we fired him. 

But if you want an answer, I'd probably start getting frustrated coming up just short after like 8 years. 

[Cr1028]

45 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

If a coach is winning 7-9 games a year and has us towards the top of the conference its going to be REALLY hard to fire him. Honestly, he'd probably be hired away before we fired him. 

But if you want an answer, I'd probably start getting frustrated coming up just short after like 8 years. 

You are describing Skip Holtz at LaTech.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

6 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

If a coach is winning 7-9 games a year and has us towards the top of the conference its going to be REALLY hard to fire him. Honestly, he'd probably be hired away before we fired him. 

But if you want an answer, I'd probably start getting frustrated coming up just short after like 8 years. 

Of course you would choose that magic number. I wonder why. Are you related to Seth? What's in this for you? And 8 years? Sheeeeesh. That is crazy. Just minimal to zero expectations. Absurd, that's what that is. 

[untphd]

3 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Of course you would choose that magic number. I wonder why. Are you related to Seth? What's in this for you? And 8 years? Sheeeeesh. That is crazy. Just minimal to zero expectations. Absurd, that's what that is. 

That's what I thought.

[Mike Jackson]

On 11/16/2022 at 1:10 PM, MGNation92 said:

1. 7-8 wins a season at minimum, bowl appearances and wins

2. Conference championship appearance every 3-4 years, more often obviously being more ideal

3. No major controversies

4. Recruiting well against peers, ESPECIALLY in-state.

As far as coach goes, I think 3-4 seasons should be the leash. If they don't have multiple bowl wins, solid recruiting, and/or a conference championship? Time to move on

⏫ This⏫.   I was going be a little more precise and mention an over 0.600 in conference winning percentage.  Suffice to say if the goals cited above are met UNT is there.  I am a little more Lenient on Championship game wins.  Beating P5 team that unexpectedly had an above average season for them in a bowl game is worth just as much to our brand imo.   And while I don't value Bowl game win against a P5 blue blood having a down with a head coach beyond their first full season I would take that also as a conference championship equivalent.  Also  I like the standard 5 year contract with the buyout for year 5 dismisssal being that year's salary plus 15%.   

[Mike Jackson]

All the praise/defense of Seth boils down to "his teams have a higher floor than what is possible at UNT ie (1 win season and losing to an FCS team).".  At least that is what it sounds like to me.   I don't want to be on the floor in the first place so that is never in consideration.   Striving to be mediocre isn't what sports are about.  Being best you can be while fairly competing is.  The ceiling of this program is not 10 wins.   If toddler aged program UTSA can finish a season with 1 loss in CUSA, UNT can finish a season in AAC with 2 losses.  I have seen nothing since Fine left than makes me think Seth can get us there.  Morever since Bean left and showed he belongs on the field against P5 competition Seth looks worse.   Maybe Aune and the rest of that QB room are worse than we complain about and Seth is working miracles.  But that still doesn’t make me feel any better about him because he couldn’t recruit better or evaluate better  before he recruited them.  If you’re an offensive head coach, and you can’t select and develop good quarterbacks, you cannot survive in the pass happy world of FBS football today.

[GrandGreen]

I may be in the minority, but I get tired of hearing the KSU story.  I have zero belief that Littrell was ever offered a job at KSU.  IMO, it was spin from Littrell's agent with no other support.   

However, it works getting Littrell a better contract because a P5 school was in hot pursuit.  

 

[NT80]

9 hours ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

What does this even mean?

Really?

You said it was impressive for Seth to have back to back 9 win seasons. 

Since then his teams have went 4-8, 4-6, 6-7, and 6-5 this year.

What changed to cause the decline?  I suggested it was the QB loss of Mason Fine (as in gone, ship sailed).  Perhaps the loss of GH as well, or the lack to refill players in recruiting, especially at QB.   Whatever the reason, the good seasons, as well as the bad ones, fall on Seth as HC. 

The trend with a pending tougher conference, loss of veteran QB and no promising backup, is not to resume 9 wins anytime soon.  

[Cr1028]

2 minutes ago, NT80 said:

Really?

You said it was impressive for Seth to have back to back 9 win seasons. 

Since then his teams have went 4-8, 4-6, 6-7, and 6-5 this year.

What changed to cause the decline?  I suggested it was the QB loss of Mason Fine (as in gone, ship sailed).  Perhaps the loss of GH as well, or the lack to refill players in recruiting, especially at QB.   Whatever the reason, the good seasons, as well as the bad ones, fall on Seth as HC. 

The trend with a pending tougher conference, loss of veteran QB and no promising backup, is not to resume 9 wins anytime soon.  

I think somebody forgot who the quarterback was in 2019 when we went 4-8.

[NorthTexasWeLove]

11 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

I think somebody forgot who the quarterback was in 2019 when we went 4-8.

I think somebody forgot who the OC was in 2019. 

[untphd]

19 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I think somebody forgot who the OC was in 2019. 

Just as long as we don't forget who this all falls on or is responsible for the final outcome each year

[Cr1028]

29 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I think somebody forgot who the OC was in 2019. 

Oh no I’m well aware, Brodie Reeder was straight trash.

It started with the comment “That ship has sailed, Mason Fine is gone”. Mason Fine was good but let’s no pretend he was the only reason we were good the first 3 years while ignoring he was here for the worst year of all 7.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Cr1028

[NT80]

39 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

I think somebody forgot who the quarterback was in 2019 when we went 4-8.

Did you notice how banged up he got that season with little OL protection and no backup QB being played?   It was the Heisman campaign and they were not taking him out of a game for anything!