Soooo...

[Wag Tag]

16 hours ago, NT80 said:

Why not?  He's under contract next year.  NO reason to offer more.

A coach can't recruit or hire assistant coaches with last year of his contract. You will have to give him at least a 2 year extension. He will either get an extension or be fired. I would imagine a new hire would want a 5-7 year deal.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Wag Tag

[MGNation92]

1 hour ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Man....Littrell is an enigma wrapped in a riddle, covered in snuff.

I don't know why his teams play so poorly against OOC competition. UNLV is not THAT much better than what we're playing in CUSA, and he just gets absolutely destroyed by them. Same thing with our bowl game last year. Does he just really focus on conference games? 

Thing is, I really like Littrell. (Again, I don't understand this issue with "personality" makes no sense to me) Two things he's done in his tenure here that I think are exceptional.

One: His players DO NOT QUIT. How many opportunities have they had to quit on him the past several years? There's something to be said about that....you know the last guy that had such a great personality and told wonderful stories and could just command a room? His players quit on him. Two: The other thing he has done is completely change this offense to fit the personnel on the field. What he did last season with all of our WR injuries, changing this offense into a rushing attack is one of the most impressive coaching moves I've ever seen....How many stubborn coaches wouldn't have done that. Which tells me LIttrell really is a smart coach, he's a creative coach, and he adapts well. That's actually really rare today. I think what we're seeing this season is the offense clicking the way he wanted it all along....now our passing game is coming on and with our OLine and run game, it's difficult to stop, which leads me to this 2021 CUSA run. Littrell is absolutely destroying most of this conference. (Can't wait to see what we do against UAB)

The challenge I have in my little brain is can we take this point and time and say "NOW....we're going to get what we expect moving forward" Keep him....risky, replace him.....risky. Could his replacement be worse? Absolutely. Could his replacement get us to NY6 level? Absolutely. Could Littrell get us to NY6 level? Oof....I just don't know. History says no, but....

I've been on the replace Littrell wagon for 2-3 years now but the next 3 (hopefully 4) games are the biggest stretch of his career. 

I'm not convinced that Littrell is the guy to take us to the AAC, but damn, he's making his case late....the next few weeks will be telling. I did NOT expect him to do what he did to WKU. If he goes out and beats UAB like that and then beats UTSA in San Antonio, he will have done what he has never really done...those 3 games will probably be the most impressive wins he's had in all the seasons he's been here. You never do anything until you do something. 

Then it will be up to Wren to make that decision. I'm still not convinced, but Littrell is making it more difficult, let's just say that.

I agree with most of this here. I think the glaring OOC record and his record in trophy games/lack of reaching the conference championship consistently is where I'm still not convinced.

CUSA is putrid. With our resources we should dominate, and outside 2017-2018 we haven't. People like to point out his 6 bowls in 7 seasons which would be great if we were even remotely competitive in any of them (2016 HOD was the most competitive and we still lost and that was his first year). Same with the lone championship game he made. FAU absolutely smoked us. SMU consistently smokes us, which is why I never considered them a rival. UTSA is easily our best rival: tied series, close games, mutual hatred

It feels like nearly every time we play a team with a winning record, we get crushed. I think I saw something like 4-30 against teams with a winning record(could be wrong there, but I know it's not good). I'm just worried we're gonna coast to the championship game and get blown out, because that's what history tells us is gonna happen. I hope he changes that perception this year, but I'm not confident.

Edited November 7, 2022 by MGNation92

[MeanGreenTexan]

22 minutes ago, Wag Tag said:

A coach can't recruit of hire assistant coaches with last year of his contract. You will have to give him at least a 2 year extension. He will either get an extension or be fired. I would imagine a new hire would want a 5-7 year deal.

Right.   I don't think there's a way Littrell returns under his existing deal without any kind of extension at all.  That's not smart.   

However, I don't believe he's earned a big 5-year deal just based on this season.  Hopefully just 2 years in addition to his last year.   Prove he can do what he's done the past 2 seasons in the AAC against SMU, Tulane and Memphis instead of LATech, FIU, & WKU... and pretty-please win some OOC games!

If so, then roll out the 5-year extension because he's "turned the corner".   If no, we're not roped-in for 5 years.

[TheColonyEagle]

10 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

It feels like nearly every time we play a team with a winning record, we get crushed. I think I saw something like 4-30 against teams with a winning record(could be wrong there, but I know it's not good). I'm just worried we're gonna coast to the championship game and get blown out, because that's what history tells us is gonna happen. I hope he changes that perception this year, but I'm not confident.

WKU raised an eyebrow for me. Especially seeing what they did the next game winning by 50. (I know Charlotte isn't good but they still beat them by 50 a week after seeing their own conf championship dreams go bye bye) Then in what could've been a trap game...they took care of business and looked like a team that is clicking. We can argue about strength of the opponent and I get it....we were 21.5 point favorites and I thought that was crazy....then he goes out and treats them like a bad FCS team. 

None of this erases how consistently bad he's been in these situations in the past, but I would be dishonest if I didn't ask myself (did he turn a corner? Is this thing about to get cranking? Finally?) The trick is predicting what's next. History says (and 6+ years is a pretty good sample size) that he should get beat next week @UAB. Vegas says we should, UAB is talented, probably bigger and stronger (they have been the past few years) Littrell doesn't beat those teams. He hasn't. 

But what if he does?

Then the game vs Rice will probably be meaningless (unless they win out but not likely given their schedule). Then we're in the CUSA Champ game, on the road against a better (on paper) team. History says not only should Littrell lose that game, he should get creamed. 

What what if he doesn't?

Littrell is making my brain hurt right now because I don't know what to believe. I don't think I'm overrating the WKU game...given his history, he had no business beating them as bad as he did. 

I'm going to assume that if Littrell wins out....beats UTSA in the champ game, he has an extension offered before the bowl game. The only question is what the structure will be. 2 years? 3 years? 5 years?!

I'm just glad there's meaningful Mean Green football to watch in November.

[keith]

26 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I agree with most of this here. I think the glaring OOC record and his record in trophy games/lack of reaching the conference championship consistently is where I'm still not convinced.

CUSA is putrid. With our resources we should dominate, and outside 2017-2018 we haven't. People like to point out his 6 bowls in 7 seasons which would be great if we were even remotely competitive in any of them (2016 HOD was the most competitive and we still lost and that was his first year). Same with the lone championship game he made. FAU absolutely smoked us. SMU consistently smokes us, which is why I never considered them a rival. UTSA is easily our best rival: tied series, close games, mutual hatred

It feels like nearly every time we play a team with a winning record, we get crushed. I think I saw something like 4-30 against teams with a winning record(could be wrong there, but I know it's not good). I'm just worried we're gonna coast to the championship game and get blown out, because that's what history tells us is gonna happen. I hope he changes that perception this year, but I'm not confident.

In the SL era, 8 of the 14 teams have made it to the conference championship game.  One team has "dominated."

Conference Championship Records

UAB - 3 - 0 --> AAC

FAU - 1 - 1 --> AAC

WKU - 1 - 1 --> CUSA

UTSA - 1 - 0 --> AAC

UNT - 0 - 1  --> AAC

LTU - 0 - 1 --> CUSA

MAR - 0 - 1 --> Sun Belt

MT - 0 - 1 --> CUSA

If you throw out the 2020 season (for reasons I've expressed earlier) then it drops to only 7 teams and UAB goes to 2 - 0.  *If*, and at the risk of getting ahead ourselves, we make it to the conference championship, UNT will be one of 5 schools to make multiple visits to the championship game four of which will be moving to the AAC.  

[UNTLifer]

Why can't we just enjoy the win, talk about UAB and hopefully get to the CUSA Championship game?

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

Win the Conference title, upsetting UTSA in the process and I won't give a damn about the bowl, though winning would be the cherry on top. 

[MeanGreen4Life1998]

On 11/6/2022 at 10:48 AM, MeanGreenDan said:

That's not how this works.

Please explain to me how this works then. He has an another year on his contract and if nobody picks him up from another school and UNT doesn’t fire him then he will go into next year on the last year of his current deal. So UNT cant wait til mid season 2023 to sign him to an extension should he be deserving? 

[VideoEagle]

8 minutes ago, MeanGreen4Life1998 said:

Please explain to me how this works then. He has an another year on his contract and if nobody picks him up from another school and UNT doesn’t fire him then he will go into next year on the last year of his current deal. So UNT cant wait til mid season 2023 to sign him to an extension should he be deserving? 

The NT athletic department isn't going to let him just ride out the current contract as it would hurt the program too much. 

Here's the recruiting conversation without some kind of change. "Son, why would you want to go to North Texas? Their own athletic director doesn't even believe in their coach! Why should you show any confidence in him if they don't? After he's gone, you have no way of knowing if the next coach will want you. We do. And our athletic department supports us." 

If they only extend Littrell for a year or two, then "Why should you go to North Texas? They wouldn't give their coach any kind of real extension because they expect him to fail. Not only do the expect him to fail, they want to be able to fire him as cheaply as possible! Do you want to join a program that won't commit and plans based on their believe their coach is going to fail? Come to our school - we support our programs." 

 

[MeanGreen4Life1998]

1 hour ago, VideoEagle said:

The NT athletic department isn't going to let him just ride out the current contract as it would hurt the program too much. 

Here's the recruiting conversation without some kind of change. "Son, why would you want to go to North Texas? Their own athletic director doesn't even believe in their coach! Why should you show any confidence in him if they don't? After he's gone, you have no way of knowing if the next coach will want you. We do. And our athletic department supports us." 

If they only extend Littrell for a year or two, then "Why should you go to North Texas? They wouldn't give their coach any kind of real extension because they expect him to fail. Not only do the expect him to fail, they want to be able to fire him as cheaply as possible! Do you want to join a program that won't commit and plans based on their believe their coach is going to fail? Come to our school - we support our programs." 

 

Thats not what im asking at all. He said “it doesn’t work that way” not “it would hurt recruiting” so I asked him to explain it

[keith]

10 minutes ago, MeanGreen4Life1998 said:

Thats not what im asking at all. He said “it doesn’t work that way” not “it would hurt recruiting” so I asked him to explain it

Instead of saying "that's not how this works" a more accurate answer would have been, "it's not common practice to allow a coach to enter the last year of his contract unprotected as that can be used against the program during the recruiting process."

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, VideoEagle said:

The NT athletic department isn't going to let him just ride out the current contract as it would hurt the program too much. 

Here's the recruiting conversation without some kind of change. "Son, why would you want to go to North Texas? Their own athletic director doesn't even believe in their coach! Why should you show any confidence in him if they don't? After he's gone, you have no way of knowing if the next coach will want you. We do. And our athletic department supports us." 

If they only extend Littrell for a year or two, then "Why should you go to North Texas? They wouldn't give their coach any kind of real extension because they expect him to fail. Not only do the expect him to fail, they want to be able to fire him as cheaply as possible! Do you want to join a program that won't commit and plans based on their believe their coach is going to fail? Come to our school - we support our programs." 

 

If I am countering those arguments, I would point to KD and the Murphys and say regardless of if I’m still here or not, I can make you into a player who has plenty of transfer options. You will get recruited all over again by powerhouse schools.

[TheColonyEagle]

5 minutes ago, keith said:

Instead of saying "that's not how this works" a more accurate answer would have been, "it's not common practice to allow a coach to enter the last year of his contract unprotected as that can be used against the program during the recruiting process."

Or....

"It would be suicide to go into next season on the last year of his contract....I mean, it can be done but would probably be really really stupid because it would hurt the program much worse than just starting with a new coach or an extension for Littrell....although yes, all that can technically be done."

 

[keith]

5 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

If I am countering those arguments, I would point to KD and the Murphys and say regardless of if I’m still here or not, I can make you into a player who has plenty of transfer options. You will get recruited all over again by powerhouse schools.

Commit to UNT and I'll get to in position to transfer to another school.  Interesting recruiting strategy.

[Cr1028]

1 minute ago, keith said:

Commit to UNT and I'll get to in position to transfer to another school.  Interesting recruiting strategy.

Best you can do on a one year deal.