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Udomann
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7 hours ago, UNTethered Eagle said:

 

- Why is it mutually exclusive for a poster to support the current team and desiring a new coach at the same time? Hint, it’s not.

I ask myself the same question. Fans go back and forth on whether SL is a good coach. I think he’s ok for CUSA but I don’t think he can elevate this program to where everyone wants it to go. I don’t root for this team to lose but in my opinion SL has a ceiling and we’ve reached it. Why is it disloyal to want more?! He would leave if offered a chance! 

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31 minutes ago, Salsa_Verde said:

I ask myself the same question. Fans go back and forth on whether SL is a good coach. I think he’s ok for CUSA but I don’t think he can elevate this program to where everyone wants it to go. I don’t root for this team to lose but in my opinion SL has a ceiling and we’ve reached it. Why is it disloyal to want more?! He would leave if offered a chance! 

That is well said. I root for this team every week. I root for the players. Hell, I even root for Aune every time I see him chunk a ball in the air. I hope his NFL dream happens and he retires in 5 years at the ripe old age of 60-something.

But I have the unwavering belief it could have been and should be better. Seth did the job, I just want to see what the next guy can do with these resources. 

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45 minutes ago, Udomann said:

That is well said. I root for this team every week. I root for the players. Hell, I even root for Aune every time I see him chunk a ball in the air. I hope his NFL dream happens and he retires in 5 years at the ripe old age of 60-something.

But I have the unwavering belief it could have been and should be better. Seth did the job, I just want to see what the next guy can do with these resources. 

It's the same in the corporate world. There are floor raisers, and ceiling raisers, and. those who specialize in stabilizing unstable (there's a corporate word or term here and I am missing it) situations 

Seth just passed DD in wins, but let's be honest... a 43-42 record doesn't move the needle when it comes to Texas, and the greater south football. 

 

 

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I am conflicted.  This team runs in streaks, just like last year. The reason we end the seasons well is because of the weak conference opponents.  We very well could win out and end the season at 8-4 (7-1). The last two games of the season will tell if SL has truly turned a corner and I would be remiss if I did not say, I believe he has.  We shall see.

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19 minutes ago, Cooke County Kid said:

I am conflicted.  This team runs in streaks, just like last year. The reason we end the seasons well is because of the weak conference opponents.  We very well could win out and end the season at 8-4 (7-1). The last two games of the season will tell if SL has truly turned a corner and I would be remiss if I did not say, I believe he has.  We shall see.

We've also had young teams (just like this year) that get better as the season progresses.

Edited by meaniegreenie
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1 hour ago, Cooke County Kid said:

I am conflicted.  This team runs in streaks, just like last year. The reason we end the seasons well is because of the weak conference opponents.  We very well could win out and end the season at 8-4 (7-1). The last two games of the season will tell if SL has truly turned a corner and I would be remiss if I did not say, I believe he has.  We shall see.

7 years coaching. Four losing seasons only three winning seasons. That corner you keep talking about has a very low turn radius I guess

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11 hours ago, UNTethered Eagle said:

Are you serious?! Lol No wonder mediocrity is accepted here. This is the personification of keeping your head in the sand. 
 

Of course wins this year matter, but to ignore the past seasons and our shortcomings is ridiculous. Do you want to improve?

Do you expect "no, I don't want the team to improve" answers?  Actually, there were a few that expressed the view that they hoped NT lost big were Littrell would be fired. 

The question is NT in better shape to improve with Littrell or going a new way. 

That obviously, can be argued either way.  You are implying that the answer is obvious, but it is not. 

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10 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

 

That obviously, can be argued either way.  You are implying that the answer is obvious, but it is not. 

Its a little more obvious than not though. 3 straight poor prior seasons. Inability to use portal effectively. Still getting blown out in games we shouldn't (UNLV and SMU just this year alone).

He's having a good/great year against horrid competition. Could he be turning a corner? Maybe. But there's nothing definitive saying he has. What we do have is definitive history that he has underachieved. 

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22 minutes ago, Udomann said:

Its a little more obvious than not though. 3 straight poor prior seasons. Inability to use portal effectively. Still getting blown out in games we shouldn't (UNLV and SMU just this year alone).

He's having a good/great year against horrid competition. Could he be turning a corner? Maybe. But there's nothing definitive saying he has. What we do have is definitive history that he has underachieved. 

Underachieved to what standard? He’s been much better than the two coaches that preceded him. A better W/L record than anyone since Hayden Fry. 
 

Listen, I understand wanting a new coach just for the simplicity of trying something different. But to say Seth Littrell has underachieved at North Texas, of all places, is asinine. 

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10 minutes ago, Pellom said:

Underachieved to what standard? He’s been much better than the two coaches that preceded him. A better W/L record than anyone since Hayden Fry. 
 

 

I applaud you for trying to use Dan "our biggest loss to FCS in history" McCarney and Todd "dodgeball" as the standard for success, but that's a horrifically low bar man.

Sure, Seth did better than them in the same way I could probably win a fight against an errant raccoon eating out of my trash bins.

Edited by Udomann
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1 hour ago, Pellom said:

Underachieved to what standard? He’s been much better than the two coaches that preceded him. A better W/L record than anyone since Hayden Fry. 
 

Listen, I understand wanting a new coach just for the simplicity of trying something different. But to say Seth Littrell has underachieved at North Texas, of all places, is asinine. 

Yes. exactly.

He hasn’t underachieved at all. In fact, based on the fact that we have won about .382% of our games since 1995, I’d say he’s incredibly overachieved. 
 

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6 hours ago, Cooke County Kid said:

I am conflicted.  This team runs in streaks, just like last year. The reason we end the seasons well is because of the weak conference opponents.  We very well could win out and end the season at 8-4 (7-1). The last two games of the season will tell if SL has truly turned a corner and I would be remiss if I did not say, I believe he has.  We shall see.

I have no confidence that CUSA wins mean anything about the quality of our team.  OOC G5 games are a better indicator of where we are on that food chain.  We are 0-3 this year!   Another Bowl loss will be confirmation of such indications.

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Coach often talks about overcoming adversity and I admit it can sound like a broken record and uninspiring after a brutal loss. Well to the surprise of many, the man has his team walking the walk (again) at just the right time. I’ve yet to see Seth’s players quit on him during a season or in a game. Especially considering last year with our awful start and the drubbing by SMU and UNLV this season. I’m not privy to the locker room talk but from an outsider perspective, it appears the players will run through a brick wall for the guy. I like that about Seth and have no doubts on his ability to teach and lead men. IMO this deserves a tip of the cap from the Mean Green Faithful. 

Coach also preaches that in order to win, our team needs to be: Selfless, Tough, & Disciplined. Yes it’s more redundant coach-speak but it’s also awesome to watch it take hold and the players actually embody the mantra. (And let’s applaud him for not giving it some corny-ass title like the Triangle of Toughness.)

I’ll end by saying that at the start of every season Coach hammers home the point that it’s all about winning championships. Well Coach, the next few games will tell us everything we need to know. To borrow a line from my favorite golf movie, Tin Cup: “I hit that shot again because it was a defining moment, and when a defining moment comes along, you define the moment… or the moment defines you.”

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12 hours ago, Pellom said:

But to say Seth Littrell has underachieved at North Texas, of all places, is asinine. 

More losing seasons than winning ones, no bowl wins (only one close game), no championships in 6 season. Take the "at North Texas, of all places" off the end of your sentence and then judge it.

Why do we want to invest as much as we're investing to act like a winning program if we're not going to have the standards of a winning program. 

Edited by TheColonyEagle
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26 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

More losing seasons than winning ones, no bowl wins (only one close game), no championships in 6 season. Take the "at North Texas, of all places" off the end of your sentence and then judge it.

Why do we want to invest as much as we're investing to act like a winning program if we're not going to have the standards of a winning program. 

If you could guarantee me that we would could get a better coach in here that had a higher ceiling I would be game.  I just worry that all of you separatists are assuming our next hire will be a good one.  How do we know the next guy won’t be Dan McArmy?  UNT is terrible at hiring if you haven’t noticed.

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15 minutes ago, meangreenfaninno said:

If you could guarantee me that we would could get a better coach in here that had a higher ceiling I would be game.  I just worry that all of you separatists are assuming our next hire will be a good one.  How do we know the next guy won’t be Dan McArmy?  UNT is terrible at hiring if you haven’t noticed.

Historically, sure.

Under Baker, nope.

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14 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

7 years coaching. Four losing seasons only three winning seasons. That corner you keep talking about has a very low turn radius I guess

Let's go to the tape.   I keep reading 7 years or after 7 years.  SL is *in* his 7th year. 

This season isn't done yet, but let's look at the history.  I'm going to include the bowl games but not in the season records because I don't think we've made up our minds if the bowl games we play in are that important or not.  Unless they are one of the historically significant bowls or playoff games, they seem to be more exhibition games that give teams a few extra weeks of practice. 

Regular Season including grades for regular season record.

1.  2016 - 5-7.  This is coming off a 1-11 record in the previous year and an OT loss in the bowl game.   Grade B.

2.  2017 - 9-3.  Played and lost in conference championship game.  Lost bowl game.  Grade A.

3.  2018 - 9-3.  Key conference losses kept us out of championship game.  Lost bowl game.  Grade A.

4.  2019 - 4-8.  Fine's last year.  Grade D.

5.  2020 - 4-5.  COVID year.  Not sure how to treat this season, but personally consider it a throw-away.  Grade I.

6.  2021 - 6-6.  While many poopoo it, includes win against highest ranked team in UNT history (I think).  Grade B-.

7.  2022 - 6-4.  Two games remaining so the history of the 7th year everyone talks about is yet to be written.

Year one was an impressive first season turn-around after a 1-11 season and minimal time to hit the recruiting trail.  Years 2 and 3 were very good.  Year 4 was a mess.  Even with arguably the greatest QB in UNT history we simply were not good.  Definitely a down year.  Year 5 was dominated by COVID with games canceled or players in and out due to various protocols.  Even if we went undefeated, I don't think I'd put much weight on the 2020 season.  It's like the first pancake out of the pan...throw it away.  Year 6 could have easily been another 1-11 season, but the team (and coaching staff) found some intestinal fortitude and finished the season on a nice 5 game winning streak.  Year 7 is currently a work in progress.

 

Records through week 10 of year 7 ----

Overall - 43 - 36 (.544) --- 39 - 31 (.557) excluding COVID year

Conference - 31 - 22 (.584) --- 28 - 18 (.610) excluding COVID year

OOC - 12 -14 (.462) --- 11 - 13 (.458) excluding COVID year

SMU - 1 - 6 --- 1 - 5 excluding COVID year.

 

Post Season through 6 years ----

Bowl Games - 0 - 5 --- 0 - 4 excluding COVID year

Conference Championship Games - 0 - 1

 

While regular season records over the last 6+ could be better (certainly year 4), they are not disastrous.    Our bowl game record seems to carry much more weight than regular season performance.  I would also suggest that our record against SMU weighs significantly (more than people realize) on the psyche of the fan base especially since the game is early in the season.  

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Man....Littrell is an enigma wrapped in a riddle, covered in snuff.

I don't know why his teams play so poorly against OOC competition. UNLV is not THAT much better than what we're playing in CUSA, and he just gets absolutely destroyed by them. Same thing with our bowl game last year. Does he just really focus on conference games? 

Thing is, I really like Littrell. (Again, I don't understand this issue with "personality" makes no sense to me) Two things he's done in his tenure here that I think are exceptional.

One: His players DO NOT QUIT. How many opportunities have they had to quit on him the past several years? There's something to be said about that....you know the last guy that had such a great personality and told wonderful stories and could just command a room? His players quit on him. Two: The other thing he has done is completely change this offense to fit the personnel on the field. What he did last season with all of our WR injuries, changing this offense into a rushing attack is one of the most impressive coaching moves I've ever seen....How many stubborn coaches wouldn't have done that. Which tells me LIttrell really is a smart coach, he's a creative coach, and he adapts well. That's actually really rare today. I think what we're seeing this season is the offense clicking the way he wanted it all along....now our passing game is coming on and with our OLine and run game, it's difficult to stop, which leads me to this 2021 CUSA run. Littrell is absolutely destroying most of this conference. (Can't wait to see what we do against UAB)

The challenge I have in my little brain is can we take this point and time and say "NOW....we're going to get what we expect moving forward" Keep him....risky, replace him.....risky. Could his replacement be worse? Absolutely. Could his replacement get us to NY6 level? Absolutely. Could Littrell get us to NY6 level? Oof....I just don't know. History says no, but....

I've been on the replace Littrell wagon for 2-3 years now but the next 3 (hopefully 4) games are the biggest stretch of his career. 

I'm not convinced that Littrell is the guy to take us to the AAC, but damn, he's making his case late....the next few weeks will be telling. I did NOT expect him to do what he did to WKU. If he goes out and beats UAB like that and then beats UTSA in San Antonio, he will have done what he has never really done...those 3 games will probably be the most impressive wins he's had in all the seasons he's been here. You never do anything until you do something. 

Then it will be up to Wren to make that decision. I'm still not convinced, but Littrell is making it more difficult, let's just say that.

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27 minutes ago, keith said:

Regular Season including grades for regular season record.

1.  2016 - 5-7.  This is coming off a 1-11 record in the previous year and an OT loss in the bowl game.   Grade B.

2.  2017 - 9-3.  Played and lost in conference championship game.  Lost bowl game.  Grade A.

3.  2018 - 9-3.  Key conference losses kept us out of championship game.  Lost bowl game.  Grade A.

4.  2019 - 4-8.  Fine's last year.  Grade D.

5.  2020 - 4-5.  COVID year.  Not sure how to treat this season, but personally consider it a throw-away.  Grade I.

6.  2021 - 6-6.  While many poopoo it, includes win against highest ranked team in UNT history (I think).  Grade B-.

7.  2022 - 6-4.  Two games remaining so the history of the 7th year everyone talks about is yet to be written.

Good visual breakdown. This reminds me that progress never happens in a straight line. There are always peaks and valleys along the way - can’t have one without the other. The key is making the correct adjustments to ensure the valleys don’t turn into free-falls… which is exactly what Seth & Co. did last season when we were left for dead. 
Mean Green fam, this is what an upswing looks and feels like. All of our goals are still right there for the taking. We just need to peak at the right time. 

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