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Is this our best team since Harrell left?


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17 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Really tired of this desire to crap in our own bed jumping ahead of any other type of dialogue around here.

Some of y'all are hell bent on not only realizing how bad you think this team might be, but actively getting in the way of people just wanting to enjoy their sports team.

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2 minutes ago, UNT Texas Hooligan said:

WKU was no walk over and was tied with us in the standings before we beat them like a red-headed step child. FAU has the same record as WKU and we also beat the absolute brakes off of them. I am like you and not usually quick to jump on the pink cloud but this team has handily beat some really good times at the right time in conference play. We now have 3 middle of the pack teams left on the schedule to beat so this is by no means a weak schedule.   

I had put somewhere this was a win over a good team. The others wins are not overs good teams. FAU is not a good team. I watched their game with UTEP (who played a very bad game) and a very bad Offensive pass interference helped them seal that victory.  UTEP, Texas Southern, and LT are bad teams. UTSA is the only team that beat us that has a winning record. So yes, credit to our team for their success, but it's not a lot different that DD's Sun Belt teams (minus the championships) 

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2 hours ago, greenminer said:

Really tired of this desire to crap in our own bed jumping ahead of any other type of dialogue around here.

Some of y'all are hell bent on not only realizing how bad you think this team might be, but actively getting in the way of people just wanting to enjoy their sports team.

For what it's worth, we are still here watching along with you. Every week. And will still be next year.

This is what a forum is for, to express our shared interest in the program, good or bad. My own proclivities aside, we aren't here to do each-others nails and drink mimosas (I mean, I would if we had some. mimosas. not nails). We are here to fart, burp, complain, cheer, and enjoy the shared highs and low.

We are more of just a bunch of dumb gorillas moaning on the interwebs about a bunch of almost-adults who don't meet our standards. But moan we will. And drink. And moan more.

Now I need to go set an appointment with my manicurist.

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2 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

I had put somewhere this was a win over a good team. The others wins are not overs good teams. FAU is not a good team. I watched their game with UTEP (who played a very bad game) and a very bad Offensive pass interference helped them seal that victory.  UTEP, Texas Southern, and LT are bad teams. UTSA is the only team that beat us that has a winning record. So yes, credit to our team for their success, but it's not a lot different that DD's Sun Belt teams (minus the championships) 

it's 2022.  There has to be some advanced metrics out there that help us see these season-to-season, schedule-to-schedule comparisons with some better, more objective perspectives.

@BillySee58 is right, I think the anti-SL and anti-Aune sentiment that lingers from the past 3 years is really skewing our ability to see what this 2022 team is.  I don't think this team is a world beater, but I think there is something worthy of more praise than some of y'all care to admit.

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I think this team is better than the 2017 team mostly because of fit and depth. Also a little bit of coordinator savvy.

- Offense -- tie. 2017 was record-setting, but didn't have a lot of depth, and didn't have a lot of answers to when teams decided to just hit Fine a ton. 

- Fine vs Aune -- Fine by a lot. But Aune fits *this* system a bit better. I don't know that Fine could do the RPO stuff and see over the line as well. But we would likely run a slightly different offense to take advantage of Fine's superior accuracy. 

- Run game -- 2022 -- OL in 2022 is better, more experienced, and more productive. Also we have more depth now. Depth or RB chart is better now than it was then, but Jeff Wilson Jr was and is a baller and elevates whatever team he is on. Put him on this squad and he's running for 2K easy. Also our TEs are much better. Have three-deep and top two are big time for NT now. 

- WRs/TEs as pass-catchers -- 2022 -- Much more depth now, and more versatility with our TE group. I like Mike Lawrence but he wasn't run blocking like Jake Roberts. 

- Defense -- Overall I like Bennett as a coordinator a little bit more. I think he puts this year's over the top. They've also came up big against some good league opponents but of course we got roasted by SMU/UNLV. 2017 we faced FAU twice (that really changed Seth's view of offense, too). 

- DL -- I take 2022 by a slight margin. Mazin Richards has been great, but we don't necessarily have a sure NFLer.

- LBs -- I like KD Davis/Wood, but EJ EJiya/Brandon Garner were very good for us.  2017 by a slight margin

- DBs -- 2017 -- I really like Texada, but he also is targeted a lot because they think they can get something. Gaddie is good too, but Kemon Hall/Nate Brooks/Eric Jenkins were very good and two have seen some time in the NFL. Also, similar with Logan WIlson/STF/Quinn Whitlock. I liked Khairi Muhammad, Kishawn McClain, Ashton Preston.

I think maybe our 2018 team had better depth than the 17 squad but I choose 17 because that was the year NT was in the title game. I think if you went down and did this comparison with the 18 team the individual aspects might change a bit, but that 18 team lost in two big conference games (Tech at home, UAB away) whereas this team went 1-1 against the two title-game participants. 

Shorter answer is yes, 2022 team is the best performing team we've had in a while and that is both frustrating and exciting (given the limitations we've seen) and it is also a matter of perspective. 

If you look at games against rivals and rival-adjacent teams: 

17: L SMU W UTSA W UAB W Tech 
18: W SMU W UTSA L UAB L Tech
22: L SMU L UTSA W Tech 

hurm

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7 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

I think this team is better than the 2017 team mostly because of fit and depth. Also a little bit of coordinator savvy.

- Offense -- tie. 2017 was record-setting, but didn't have a lot of depth, and didn't have a lot of answers to when teams decided to just hit Fine a ton. 

- Fine vs Aune -- Fine by a lot. But Aune fits *this* system a bit better. I don't know that Fine could do the RPO stuff and see over the line as well. But we would likely run a slightly different offense to take advantage of Fine's superior accuracy. 

- Run game -- 2022 -- OL in 2022 is better, more experienced, and more productive. Also we have more depth now. Depth or RB chart is better now than it was then, but Jeff Wilson Jr was and is a baller and elevates whatever team he is on. Put him on this squad and he's running for 2K easy. Also our TEs are much better. Have three-deep and top two are big time for NT now. 

- WRs/TEs as pass-catchers -- 2022 -- Much more depth now, and more versatility with our TE group. I like Mike Lawrence but he wasn't run blocking like Jake Roberts. 

- Defense -- Overall I like Bennett as a coordinator a little bit more. I think he puts this year's over the top. They've also came up big against some good league opponents but of course we got roasted by SMU/UNLV. 2017 we faced FAU twice (that really changed Seth's view of offense, too). 

- DL -- I take 2022 by a slight margin. Mazin Richards has been great, but we don't necessarily have a sure NFLer.

- LBs -- I like KD Davis/Wood, but EJ EJiya/Brandon Garner were very good for us.  2017 by a slight margin

- DBs -- 2017 -- I really like Texada, but he also is targeted a lot because they think they can get something. Gaddie is good too, but Kemon Hall/Nate Brooks/Eric Jenkins were very good and two have seen some time in the NFL. Also, similar with Logan WIlson/STF/Quinn Whitlock. I liked Khairi Muhammad, Kishawn McClain, Ashton Preston.

I think maybe our 2018 team had better depth than the 17 squad but I choose 17 because that was the year NT was in the title game. I think if you went down and did this comparison with the 18 team the individual aspects might change a bit, but that 18 team lost in two big conference games (Tech at home, UAB away) whereas this team went 1-1 against the two title-game participants. 

Shorter answer is yes, 2022 team is the best performing team we've had in a while and that is both frustrating and exciting (given the limitations we've seen) and it is also a matter of perspective. 

If you look at games against rivals and rival-adjacent teams: 

17: L SMU W UTSA W UAB W Tech 
18: W SMU W UTSA L UAB L Tech
22: L SMU L UTSA W Tech 

hurm

Man, I could not disagree with a lot of these sentiments more.  Especially the first 2 and DL (you're counting Richards here, when he's actually more of a OLB). 

I feel like maybe we need a refresher on who those dudes were:

QBs - Fine.  I don't need to say anything else.
RBs - Wilson was an every-down workhorse.  There's no way I'd elevate 2022's RBs over him, at all.   And don't sleep on 2017's RB depth.  Loren Easly, Nic Smith, Evan Johnson were all ballers like Adeyi, Ragsdale, & Johnson.
WRs - Shorter is nice, but man...   Guyton, Bussey, Lawrence, Darden, Smiley?  Sheesh!   And Kelvin Smith is better than any TEs we currently have (blocking and catching).    This really isn't even close.   At all.
OL - We have a nice OL this year (especially the interior), but again: Murray, Woodworth, Barr/SMose, MMose, Mayfield... that is a stout OL.  The tackles are better in 2017, giving them a slight edge.
DL - Hamilton, Rod Young, Tauaalo, Flusche.   Rod Young was that dude.   Kadren is not to be confused with Hambone.
LB - Ejiya, Garner, Wheeler.    I love KD, but man EJ was amazing, so that's virtually a push (slight edge to KD as a Senior).    Mazin is playing slightly better than Wheeler in the same OLB/Jack-type role.  But the kicker here is that Nixon or Wood don't come remotely close to Garner.
DBs - Kemon, Nate, Kishawn, Khairi, with Eric Jenkins stepping in when Nate couldn't keep his cool...  That's an entirely all-conference backend.

IMO, when you stack them all, the 2017 team was better at pretty much every single position across the board outside of Mazin over Wheeler, Blair over Freshman Manase and Senior Manase over Barr/Sosia.  And if you like KD over Ejiya, that's cool.  That's 4 out of 22.

In other words, I'm pretty sure the 2017 team would rip 2022 a new anus.   Like a UNLV-score type of game.   Who is going to cover those WRs?   Outside of KD, who's tackling Jeff?   And how many picks does Aune throw on that secondary?

 

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6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Man, I could not disagree with a lot of these sentiments more.  Especially the first 2 and DL (you're counting Richards here, when he's actually more of a OLB). 

IMO, when you stack them all, the 2017 team was better at pretty much every single position across the board outside of Mazin over Wheeler, Blair over Freshman Manase and Senior Manase over Barr/Sosia.  And if you like KD over Ejiya, that's cool.  That's 4 out of 22.

In other words, I'm pretty sure the 2017 team would rip 2022 a new anus.   Like a UNLV-score type of game.   Who is going to cover those WRs?   Outside of KD, who's tackling Jeff?   And how many picks does Aune throw on that secondary?

 

I don't think we said much different. (I liked Smith, but had 27 grabs for 264 0 scores, while Gumms has 20 grabs for 247 and 4TDs in half the play) I grouped them differently -- like I said "run game" and included OL+RB room. I also wasn't asking which team would beat the other. Just which is "better" like, against the competition. 

This is why I grouped pass catchers together. Like, this offense runs 12 personnel a ton. That offense did 11 personnel more. And the Jack- Mazin/Wheeler thing is basically a pass-rushing LB aka a DE so I like putting them with the DL. 

Also, its cheating to say "Darden' when he wasn't NFL-bound Darden yet, but a returner with spot pass-catching duty at the time. haha. 

17: 34.4 ppg/ 34.5 allowed
22: 38/22* 

* not done. 

2017 squad was squeaking out a lot of wins (UAB, Army, UTSA) while this team in conference has dominated their competition so far. 

28
17
20
-4
27


3
15
3
-38
7
1
35
16
-24

All that to say that 'yes' one of our better teams since GH was here. I think 2018 was the best NT on paper, but didn't accomplish much. 2017 was better in result, but was thinner, and still growing as a team. 

2022 doesn't have as many obvious NFL-candidates and is young! 

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28 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

I don't think we said much different. (I liked Smith, but had 27 grabs for 264 0 scores, while Gumms has 20 grabs for 247 and 4TDs in half the play) I grouped them differently -- like I said "run game" and included OL+RB room. I also wasn't asking which team would beat the other. Just which is "better" like, against the competition. 

This is why I grouped pass catchers together. Like, this offense runs 12 personnel a ton. That offense did 11 personnel more. And the Jack- Mazin/Wheeler thing is basically a pass-rushing LB aka a DE so I like putting them with the DL. 

Also, its cheating to say "Darden' when he wasn't NFL-bound Darden yet, but a returner with spot pass-catching duty at the time. haha. 

17: 34.4 ppg/ 34.5 allowed
22: 38/22* 

* not done. 

2017 squad was squeaking out a lot of wins (UAB, Army, UTSA) while this team in conference has dominated their competition so far. 

28
17
20
-4
27


3
15
3
-38
7
1
35
16
-24

All that to say that 'yes' one of our better teams since GH was here. I think 2018 was the best NT on paper, but didn't accomplish much. 2017 was better in result, but was thinner, and still growing as a team. 

2022 doesn't have as many obvious NFL-candidates and is young! 

Lots of variables between these teams' competitions as well.   

I'm pretty confident in the C-USA of 2017 being better than the C-USA of 2022.   I mean, there's a huge difference between Bill Clark's UAB and Skip Holtz's LATech teams than what we're seeing this year from those 2, and let's just leave the 2 games VS Kiffin's FAU out of it.   

Plus 2017 had a paycheck game against Iowa, whereas this year, NT got to go to Vegas as part of a home/home.   I'd say 2017 played Iowa much better than 2022 played UNLV.
And Darden had a line of 32/281/3 as a freshman!  He was killing it even back then, with his all-purpose yards as you mentioned, pushing him up to almost 800 total yds on the season!

Good banter though.

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