We should have known

[meangreen11]

The main difference between UNT and teams like UNLV, UTSA and SMU is the quality and amount of portal players coming from high level FBS programs.

Most here will agree, Seth was very late to the game in terms of setting the stage for being a portal destination.  Sonny figured this out sooner than most.

But so did Traylor and Arroyo.  Signing lower level portal transfers is not going to cut it against transfers from Alabama, Arkansas, Ole MIss, Oklahoma and Texas. 

The lack of bringing in a quality QB other than Mason Fine is also a huge red flag.  Again, if this was year 2-3 maybe you swallow your pride and hope for better. 

[UNTLifer]

31 minutes ago, meangreen11 said:

The lack of bringing in a quality QB other than Mason Fine is also a huge red flag.  

I think we have brought in quality players, but they don't possess Fine's leadership/not going to lose personality.  They need to have some confidence instilled in them and SL has been able to find the right formula to do this.

[emmitt01]

On 9/20/2022 at 4:51 PM, UNTLifer said:

I think we have brought in quality players, but they don't possess Fine's leadership/not going to lose personality.  They need to have some confidence instilled in them and SL has been able to find the right formula to do this.

How much confidence would you have if you were given 2nd team reps all off-season and then saw no opportunity to play even when the starter is clearly incapable of game to game (or year to year) progression.   
 

And that’s not just a SL issue, Mac did the same. 

[El Paso Eagle]

As has been said over and over. Other than Fine we have not developed one QB. Not a single transfer that has come in after playing elsewhere has improved

Edited September 22, 2022 by El Paso Eagle

[NT80]

On 9/20/2022 at 4:51 PM, UNTLifer said:

I think we have brought in quality players, but they don't possess Fine's leadership/not going to lose personality.  They need to have some confidence instilled in them and SL has been able to find the right formula to do this.

UNLV had TWO (2) wins last season.  We made them look like Tom Brady and Tampa Bay this past Saturday.   But we don't get all the credit.   UNLV brought in like 27 transfers this past season and their coach re-invented their team.  Some coaching staffs can mold their play to their players.  Seth just keeps trying to make Aune into the next Mason Fine.   

[Cr1028]

13 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

How much confidence would you have if you were given 2nd team reps all off-season and then saw no opportunity to play even when the starter is clearly incapable of game to game (or year to year) progression.   
 

And that’s not just a SL issue, Mac did the same. 

Ask Aune, he lived that life in both the 2020 and 2021 seasons except that he showed improvement over the benched starter in 2021 that got those first team reps. In 2020 he took the job and then got benched again.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Cr1028

[Mike Jackson]

30 minutes ago, NT80 said:

UNLV had TWO (2) wins last season.  We made them look like Tom Brady and Tampa Bay this past Saturday.   But we don't get all the credit.   UNLV brought in like 27 transfers this past season and their coach re-invented their team.  Some coaching staffs can mold their play to their players.  Seth just keeps trying to make Aune into the next Mason Fine.   

And as much as loved Mason Fine he didn’t get drafted.  So he can’t be the standard here, he is a starting point; a top 20 FBS QB during his tenure at his high water mark.  So if SL looking for his next Fine he is aiming lower than he should.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Mike Jackson

[untjim1995]

To me, big cities, playing time, and NIL really help SMU and UNLV more than it does us.

We need coaches who can develop players into something constantly. We aren’t ever gonna have the NIL oops that some of these AAC or MWC schools can offer, for multiple reasons. What we need is someone who can see the running back in East Texas and can turn him into a DE or a 1-2* lineman from DFW that can be developed into a better version in college. That’s hard, no doubt, but Gary Patterson did it at the G5 level so well that he got a small private school to be invited to the Power Conference setup. IOW, we need that kind of coach badly. 
 

What we cannot do again is make a hire that is overwhelmed by the complications that Denton/UNT present.  Because that is what seems to be the MO and all it does is lead to the same issues we have seen over the last 30+ years.

[MeanGreenTexan]

10 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

And as much as loved Mason Fine he didn’t get drafted.  So he can’t be the standard here, he is a starting point; a top 20 FBS QB during his tenure at his high water mark.  So if SL looking for his next Fine he is aiming lower than he should.

Please, please, pretty please, give me 25 straight Mason Fines at QB for the next 100 years, and watch what happens at UNT.    The Josh Allen-like, once-in-a-lifetime QB rolling through UNT cannot be counted upon.  But there are certainly diamonds out there like Mason Fine to be found.

Don't throw rocks at the throne:

[CaribbeanGreen]

It's more systemic than that. 

We all love Mason Fine. He'll be a UNT legend forever. He was the QB. His persona and charm underdog persona was as likable as it gets. He also played with THREE NFL caliber WRs. An NFL caliber RB. An NFL caliber LT. Mason Fine was surrounded by likely the best overall collection of offensive talent in UNT history, or damn close. This is no way a slight to Mason Fine; he was the engine that made it go - but the point is that "upgrading from Aune" or developing a QB in house is great and all, but it's gonna take much more than that. We need to get some DUDES in here. We love a lot of the guys we have, and maybe some of them can end up being that.... but we need even MORE than a nice QB to take this thing where we wanna go. 

[UNTLifer]

15 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

How much confidence would you have if you were given 2nd team reps all off-season and then saw no opportunity to play even when the starter is clearly incapable of game to game (or year to year) progression.   
 

And that’s not just a SL issue, Mac did the same. 

That's exactly what I am saying.  Fine and his success open QB recruits eyes that they could be successful at North Texas.  My point is that Fine would have been good anywhere because he has that innate personality trait to lead and a never lose mentality.  That rubs off on the players around him, and this wasn't something created by SL.  The QB recruits that followed and have played, Aune, Gunnell and Ruder, don't show that same "swagger" that Fine had, so they need to be coached up.  SL and staff haven't shown the ability to get the most out of these young men.

I remember under the first staff with Graham and Baker, they used to have these QB skills competition.  Never see or hear of that anymore.  There is just a lack of development at the position either through our coaches lack of ability to develop a QB or just plain laziness on their part.

[UNTLifer]

12 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

And as much as loved Mason Fine he didn’t get drafted.  So he can’t be the standard here, he is a starting point; a top 20 FBS QB during his tenure at his high water mark.  So if SL looking for his next Fine he is aiming lower than he should.

I bet if Fine was 6'2" he would have been drafted.  It wasn't a production problem, but the NFL rarely drafts QB's that don't fit their mold.  Doug Flutie won the Heisman and wasn't drafted until the 11th round.  They wouldn't sniff him today.

I also don't think he should be the standard, but if he if, it will put us light years ahead of where we are right now.

My point is that Fine made it easy on SL.  Fine was going to work hard, study, and do all the things to make himself great because that is who he is.  Not everyone possesses those traits and those kids need to be coached up.  SL has failed at that part of the game.

[meangreenfaninno]

On 9/21/2022 at 6:15 PM, emmitt01 said:

How much confidence would you have if you were given 2nd team reps all off-season and then saw no opportunity to play even when the starter is clearly incapable of game to game (or year to year) progression.   
 

And that’s not just a SL issue, Mac did the same. 

I disagree Mac did a great job developing DT who is now a Hall of Famer.  He tried to give others chances but Chico was so stubborn and his offensive plays were so complicate me there were very few players that could grasp it.  Please stop comparing Littrell to Mac as there is no comparison.  Mac won  us a bowl game as well.

Edited September 23, 2022 by meangreenfaninno

[Glory to the Green]

15 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Please, please, pretty please, give me 25 straight Mason Fines at QB for the next 100 years, and watch what happens at UNT.    The Josh Allen-like, once-in-a-lifetime QB rolling through UNT cannot be counted upon.  But there are certainly diamonds out there like Mason Fine to be found.

Don't throw rocks at the throne:

Yeah, I think we’ve forgotten just how good he was, how good those receivers were, AND how well they worked together. There was a lot of talent on those teams. 
I believe there’s also a ton of talent on today’s team, too.  Would love to see this team click. It’d be fun to watch. 

[Cr1028]

1 hour ago, meangreenfaninno said:

I disagree Mac did a great job developing DT who is now a Hall of Famer.  He tried to give others chances but Chico was so stubborn and his offensive plays were so complicate me there were very few players that could grasp it.  Please stop comparing Littrell to Mac as there is no comparison.  Mac won  us a bowl game as well.

You have got to be kidding. Mac never developed a quarterback ever. DT was a recruit and product of Todd Dodge’s quarterback coaching. All Mac and Chico did was not make him worse. Mac was the equivalent of Matt Passwaters, an Oline coach that coached Dline.

[MeanGreenTexan]

9 hours ago, Glory to the Green said:

Yeah, I think we’ve forgotten just how good he was, how good those receivers were, AND how well they worked together. There was a lot of talent on those teams. 
I believe there’s also a ton of talent on today’s team, too.  Would love to see this team click. It’d be fun to watch. 

This cannot be overstated enough.   The '19, '20, & '21 classes were all chock-full of really good players (granted, some of them have transferred out).
So when we continually hear about "execution" issues, it drives me up a wall.