Perspective

[untjim1995]

1 minute ago, GMG_Dallas said:

You're misunderstanding my entire statement. You don't evaluate a quarterback based on where he stands in UNT's history. You've got to put him on the college football field as it stands. I'm not talking about UNT sports and the lack of support, I'm saying ranking Aune in our history of quarterbacks at UNT is irrelevant to the current field today and what we need to be successful today.

My bad… thanks for clarifying 

[keith]

2 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

You're misunderstanding my entire statement. You don't evaluate a quarterback based on where he stands in UNT's history. You've got to put him on the college football field as it stands. I'm not talking about UNT sports and the lack of support, I'm saying ranking Aune in our history of quarterbacks at UNT is irrelevant to the current field today and what we need to be successful today.

Instead of comparing whoever the UNT QB is to the entire population of college QBs, wouldn't it be more relevant to compare the UNT QB to the opposing QBs we play?  I think that is probably a better indicator of the success (or lack of) we will have over the course of a season.

[GMG_Dallas]

34 minutes ago, keith said:

Instead of comparing whoever the UNT QB is to the entire population of college QBs, wouldn't it be more relevant to compare the UNT QB to the opposing QBs we play?  I think that is probably a better indicator of the success (or lack of) we will have over the course of a season.

In CUSA, he's 9th out of 10 in completion percentage, worst than UTEP's QB despite his game against us and playing OU last saturday, and 5th out of 10 in yards per attempt. Total yards, touchdowns, attempts, etc are hard to judge since 5 of our conference mates have only played 1 game. That said, despite having more playing time than half the conference quarterbacks, the only category he's top 3 in is interceptions.

[keith]

20 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

In CUSA, he's 9th out of 10 in completion percentage, worst than UTEP's QB despite his game against us and playing OU last saturday, and 5th out of 10 in yards per attempt. Total yards, touchdowns, attempts, etc are hard to judge since 5 of our conference mates have only played 1 game. That said, despite having more playing time than half the conference quarterbacks, the only category he's top 3 in is interceptions.

I was less than clear in my statement.  I meant compare QB vs QB play in each game.  I could not care less what the UTEP QB does the rest of the season.  As you suggest, that's completely irrelevant.  

I get what you are saying.  There is a relationship between completion % and YPA and overall QB play and that generally translates into better team play.  However, when all is said and done, it's about scoring more points than the other team.  If our QB has a wonderful completion percentage and YPA average and we still lose, then those stats are meaningless.  There's no asterisk next to the L with a footnote that says, but our QB had better numbers than theirs.

Edited September 7, 2022 by keith

[GMG_Dallas]

20 minutes ago, keith said:

I was less than clear in my statement.  I meant compare QB vs QB play in each game.  I could not care less what the UTEP QB does the rest of the season.  As you suggest, that's completely irrelevant.  

I get what you are saying.  There is a relationship between completion % and YPA and overall QB play and that generally translates into better team play.  However, when all is said and done, it's about scoring more points than the other team.  If our QB has a wonderful completion percentage and YPA average and we still lose, then those stats are meaningless.  There's no asterisk next to the L with a footnote that says, but our QB had better numbers than theirs.

Very true. Generally good QB play can at least keep you in the game so while it doesn't directly translate to wins, it should at least give you a chance even if your defense is poor. Think Mason Fine's years. It's kind of like good guard play in college basketball. If may not directly lead to wins but generally it can at least keep a game close and then who knows what happens down the stretch.

Back on topic, I don't care much about not throwing it down field but if that's the case, you better at least be accurate in your short throws. I can understand a bad completion percentage if you throw a lot of deep balls but that's not the case here and that's why it's frustrating.

[wardly]

2 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Very true. Generally good QB play can at least keep you in the game so while it doesn't directly translate to wins, it should at least give you a chance even if your defense is poor. Think Mason Fine's years. It's kind of like good guard play in college basketball. If may not directly lead to wins but generally it can at least keep a game close and then who knows what happens down the stretch.

Back on topic, I don't care much about not throwing it down field but if that's the case, you better at least be accurate in your short throws. I can understand a bad completion percentage if you throw a lot of deep balls but that's not the case here and that's why it's frustrating.

 Just asking. Is our receiving core the same caliber as Fine had?

[GMG_Dallas]

16 minutes ago, wardly said:

 Just asking. Is our receiving core the same caliber as Fine had?

I think top to bottom, yes, if given the opportunity. I don't think we have a Darden or Guyton when looking at their specific skill sets but if you're just asking if our receiver core is as talented as back then, yes. Just need somebody to get them the damn ball down field so they can make a play on it. Give these guys a chance to win one-on-one battles.

[MGNation92]

18 hours ago, wardly said:

 Just asking. Is our receiving core the same caliber as Fine had?

17 hours ago, GMG_Dallas said:

I think top to bottom, yes, if given the opportunity. I don't think we have a Darden or Guyton when looking at their specific skill sets but if you're just asking if our receiver core is as talented as back then, yes. Just need somebody to get them the damn ball down field so they can make a play on it. Give these guys a chance to win one-on-one battles.

It's a catch-22

Mason Fine is the greatest QB in UNT history

Darden, Bussey, and Guyton were all really really good, could even throw in Lawrence as a rock solid, dependable option.

They made each other better. They ran the routes and Mason put it on the money more often than not

Our current receiving corps could very well be better than those guys (although I doubt it), but the QB play is so putrid, it makes them look bad as well.

[GMG_Dallas]

22 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

It's a catch-22

Mason Fine is the greatest QB in UNT history

Darden, Bussey, and Guyton were all really really good, could even throw in Lawrence as a rock solid, dependable option.

They made each other better. They ran the routes and Mason put it on the money more often than not

Our current receiving corps could very well be better than those guys (although I doubt it), but the QB play is so putrid, it makes them look bad as well.

The thing is, and I really enjoyed Bussey and Lawrence, but in the grand scheme of things, only Darden and Guyton were truly special talents out of that lot. Bussey didn't do much in 7 games at Hawaii. While injuries probably hampered him a bit, we'll never really know what he would have looked like without Fine. Lawrence, while he made big plays for us, was a walk-on who benefited from the coverage the other guys attracted. Looking at Turner Smiley's production from Fine's sophomore year to before that shows who much these guys benefited from Mason and Harrell.

Like you said, it's hard to know what this group is capable of with the quarterback play we have. That said, I've read a ton of posts about how SMU is littered with P5 transfers completely ignoring the receivers we have who were former P5 signees.

Bryson Jackson - TCU 4 stars

Tommy Bush - Georgia 4 stars

Latrell Neville - Nebraska 3 stars

Ja'Mori Maclin - Missouri 3 stars

That obviously doesn't include guys we signed out of HS who had P5 offers.

Then we look at tight ends who, in my opinion, are part of the receiving core. I don't think Fine ever had a tight end like Roberts but maybe that's due to the low utilization of our tight ends when he was here.

Going back to the wide receivers and the short list of P5 transfers I listed above, there's talent here. SMU has made the most of their P5 transfers. We need to do the same.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

28 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

The thing is, and I really enjoyed Bussey and Lawrence, but in the grand scheme of things, only Darden and Guyton were truly special talents out of that lot. Bussey didn't do much in 7 games at Hawaii. While injuries probably hampered him a bit, we'll never really know what he would have looked like without Fine. Lawrence, while he made big plays for us, was a walk-on who benefited from the coverage the other guys attracted. Looking at Turner Smiley's production from Fine's sophomore year to before that shows who much these guys benefited from Mason and Harrell.

Like you said, it's hard to know what this group is capable of with the quarterback play we have. That said, I've read a ton of posts about how SMU is littered with P5 transfers completely ignoring the receivers we have who were former P5 signees.

Bryson Jackson - TCU 4 stars

Tommy Bush - Georgia 4 stars

Latrell Neville - Nebraska 3 stars

Ja'Mori Maclin - Missouri 3 stars

That obviously doesn't include guys we signed out of HS who had P5 offers.

Then we look at tight ends who, in my opinion, are part of the receiving core. I don't think Fine ever had a tight end like Roberts but maybe that's due to the low utilization of our tight ends when he was here.

Going back to the wide receivers and the short list of P5 transfers I listed above, there's talent here. SMU has made the most of their P5 transfers. We need to do the same.

 

Amazing to have that kind of talent, a very good O-line, and still have a QB hovering at around his 50% completion mark with 3 TDs and 2 INTs (both of which are around career averages for Aune). And don't give me the strength of competition argument. Frank Harris just played a ranked UH team and still managed a 65% completion percentage with 3 TDs, 1 INT and another TD run. I am so relieved this will be Aune's last season. I can't take another year of Aune leading this team. 

[Cr1028]

43 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

The thing is, and I really enjoyed Bussey and Lawrence, but in the grand scheme of things, only Darden and Guyton were truly special talents out of that lot. Bussey didn't do much in 7 games at Hawaii. While injuries probably hampered him a bit, we'll never really know what he would have looked like without Fine.

I gotta disagree with you on Bussey. He was special. Injuries are what brought down his career but the Steelers don’t bring someone with Bussey’s Hawaii stats unless they are a freak athletically or sizewise. They likely brought him in on plays like his TD catch in the first bowl game and his catch and score that capped off “The Drive”. I know it doesn’t help the case you are trying to make but Bussey was special until that knee injury vs Cal.

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Cr1028

[GMG_Dallas]

16 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

I gotta disagree with you on Bussey. He was special. Injuries are what brought down his career but the Steelers don’t bring someone with Bussey’s Hawaii stats unless they are a freak athletically or sizewise. They likely brought him in on plays like his TD catch in the first bowl game and his catch and score that capped off “The Drive”. I know it doesn’t help the case you are trying to make but Bussey was special until that knee injury vs Cal.

 

He made big plays for sure and he was very good but I'm talking program-changing special. Out of our P5 transfers, we have two guys who were 4 star high school recruits and two who were 3 stars. Is there any reason to believe they couldn't be as productive as Bussey or better if they had a Fine-like quarterback?

The question was if our current core is of the same overall caliber. This core is littered with highly ranked recruits. Only thing missing is the quarterback.

[Cr1028]

8 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

He made big plays for sure and he was very good but I'm talking program-changing special.

He was as good or better than Guyton except in top-end speed.

[GMG_Dallas]

13 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

He was as good or better than Guyton except in top-end speed.

Maybe more versatile, which I do think Guyton was one-dimensional, but Guyton was and still is an elite deep threat.

This can just be another thing we disagree with lol.

[Cr1028]

4 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

Maybe more versatile, which I do think Guyton was one-dimensional, but Guyton was and still is an elite deep threat.

This can just be another thing we disagree with lol.

Haha fair enough.

[MGNation92]

1 hour ago, GMG_Dallas said:

He made big plays for sure and he was very good but I'm talking program-changing special. Out of our P5 transfers, we have two guys who were 4 star high school recruits and two who were 3 stars. Is there any reason to believe they couldn't be as productive as Bussey or better if they had a Fine-like quarterback?

The question was if our current core is of the same overall caliber. This core is littered with highly ranked recruits. Only thing missing is the quarterback.

I think another thing we're overlooking is the impact of Joel Filani as well.

That entire offensive staff was insanely good at their jobs and are now all at P5's because of it