Student Loan Forgiveness

[El Paso Eagle]

As a parent with two still paying off their loans, and one in college - I THINK THIS SUCKS!

So if you had paid off, or did what it took to make sure you met you commitment - too bad!

So tax payers will have to pay for others "commitments". Going to college is not required. This is a self-choice. What about those who spread their education out over multiple years or worked multiple jobs and did without to avoid the debt.

Here's a thought - Just like is needed in health care - Why not go after the causes of the out-of-control cost in Education and try and actually solve a freaking problem

Last thing - did you notice how the "projected" $300 BILLION will wipe out the "savings" projected from the latest so-called Inflation Reduction Act

 

[LongJim]

Unethical and illegal.

The situation won't improve until the pain is no longer tolerable though.

[Coffee and TV]

retweets are not endorsements as they say

 

[TheColonyEagle]

 Universities’ tuition going up next year by around the same amount of this loan forgiveness will be a total coincidence. 
 

[greenminer]

I have really angry thoughts about debt, and how much better our society would be if it wasn't so normalized.

In the case of college tuition, I think it's beyond normalized and criminal how the government allows student loans to continue on this path.

You practically have to give blood as en employed young adult to get a house, but any 18 year old about to enter 4 years of stupid decisions can sign away his life for $100K loans.

We have people doing this with zero insight into what they're getting into, and what is initially a contract/responsibiltiy, becomes a massive life-long burden.

It impacts our health care, it impacts our ability to save/invest, our economy, and I sometimes speculate if some of these people (tends to be lefts) would be less inclined to rely on the government if they had a little more of their own money for emergency funds.
 

 

[UNTLifer]

The president doesn't have the power to just wipe away debt, but wait and see if anyone has the balls to call him on this.  Nothing but another "vote grab".  Unconstitutional and against the law, but those still bitching about our previous president will be completely silent on this.  

[greenminer]

this is the first I've ever read about loan forgiveness being unconstitutional/illegal.  Can someone explain that for me?

[Mean Green 93-98]

19 minutes ago, greenminer said:

this is the first I've ever read about loan forgiveness being unconstitutional/illegal.  Can someone explain that for me?

I don't think anyone is saying that loan forgiveness itself is unconstitutional or illegal.  But does the President have the power to do that solely via executive order?

[Censored by Laurie]

I'm gonna preface this reply with the perhaps surprising statement that I understand, at least in principal, the opposition to student debt forgiveness. I am a person who has carried very little debt throughout his life...I minimized my loans and worked considerably to pay for my time at UNT. I can hear those "personal responsibility" chants and they at least register with me and speak to how I've managed my finances and financial decisions. 

that said...I also fully recognize that I am fortunate and truly the last vestiges of a generation. I made my way through UNT right before the state deregulated tuition rates...I left UNT and entered a job market that still paid entry level workers enough to live in the then housing/rental market and not have to compromise between paying for food or student loan debt...and because of that I managed to pay my loans off in 2-3 years after graduating. 

those were not the conditions that the subsequent ten-plus years worth of graduates encountered despite being sold on the exact same pitch I was about college. tuition costs soared...cost of living rose considerably...hell, requirements for basic entry level positions changed (your grade school teacher does not need an effing Masters) and all the while wages stayed stagnant. these aren't political statements. its quantifiable math. and as such that generation that entered college after me faced a mountain upon leaving college, even those who managed their finances as pragmatically as I did.

the math changed. 

 

[CMJ]

In theory I am not really for cancelling all the debt either.  I got through school without taking on any student loans by working all the way through school, sometimes PT others FT depending on the semester.  My folks helped my brother and I out with some cash every month for food and the like, but they told both of us tuition was on us because THEY had to pay their own way and said we'd appreciate it more if we had our own skin in the game. 

 

However, the interest payments on student loans are really what the killer is now, not the loans themselves.  Many of those loans had a 10% or greater interest rate -- that makes it a pretty back breaking exercise to pay them off.  You end up paying way, way more than you took out.

 

I actually think a better compromise to help the situation would have been to cut the interest payments to no more than say....2% going forward.  No 10-12% figure that makes it nearly impossible to ever pay off.  

Edited August 25, 2022 by CMJ

[El Paso Eagle]

9 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I'm gonna preface this reply with the perhaps surprising statement that I understand, at least in principal, the opposition to student debt forgiveness. I am a person who has carried very little debt throughout his life...I minimized my loans and worked considerably to pay for my time at UNT. I can hear those "personal responsibility" chants and they at least register with me and speak to how I've managed my finances and financial decisions. 

that said...I also fully recognize that I am fortunate and truly the last vestiges of a generation. I made my way through UNT right before the state deregulated tuition rates...I left UNT and entered a job market that still paid entry level workers enough to live in the then housing/rental market and not have to compromise between paying for food or student loan debt...and because of that I managed to pay my loans off in 2-3 years after graduating. 

those were not the conditions that the subsequent ten-plus years worth of graduates encountered despite being sold on the exact same pitch I was about college. tuition costs soared...cost of living rose considerably...hell, requirements for basic entry level positions changed (your grade school teacher does not need an effing Masters) and all the while wages stayed stagnant. these aren't political statements. its quantifiable math. and as such that generation that entered college after me faced a mountain upon leaving college, even those who managed their finances as pragmatically as I did.

the math changed. 

 

Very nicely said 

[UNTLifer]

11 hours ago, Mean Green 93-98 said:

I don't think anyone is saying that loan forgiveness itself is unconstitutional or illegal.  But does the President have the power to do that solely via executive order?

Exactly.  The president doesn't have this authority with just a swipe of his pen.

[meangreenacct]

10 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I'm gonna preface this reply with the perhaps surprising statement that I understand, at least in principal, the opposition to student debt forgiveness. I am a person who has carried very little debt throughout his life...I minimized my loans and worked considerably to pay for my time at UNT. I can hear those "personal responsibility" chants and they at least register with me and speak to how I've managed my finances and financial decisions. 

that said...I also fully recognize that I am fortunate and truly the last vestiges of a generation. I made my way through UNT right before the state deregulated tuition rates...I left UNT and entered a job market that still paid entry level workers enough to live in the then housing/rental market and not have to compromise between paying for food or student loan debt...and because of that I managed to pay my loans off in 2-3 years after graduating. 

those were not the conditions that the subsequent ten-plus years worth of graduates encountered despite being sold on the exact same pitch I was about college. tuition costs soared...cost of living rose considerably...hell, requirements for basic entry level positions changed (your grade school teacher does not need an effing Masters) and all the while wages stayed stagnant. these aren't political statements. its quantifiable math. and as such that generation that entered college after me faced a mountain upon leaving college, even those who managed their finances as pragmatically as I did.

the math changed. 

 

I agree with this. When I remember back to how much I paid for my first year in 2001 to my last year when I graduated the escalation of cost is just out of control. I was happy to exit with a masters with only taking out like $5k a year (with interest rates of like 2-4%) and covering the rest myself through working - that's just not possible anymore. It's also much easier for people who go into business, engineering or other fields where the starting salary is higher to manage repayment of loans as opposed to some other professions like social work, education, etc - but our society needs people in a wide range of professions. I'm hoping this helps those who took out loans to go into professions where the intrinsic rewards and benefits to society outweigh the economic rewards. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

9 hours ago, CMJ said:

...the interest payments on student loans are really what the killer is now, not the loans themselves.  Many of those loans had a 10% or greater interest rate -- that makes it a pretty back breaking exercise to pay them off.  You end up paying way, way more than you took out.

 

I actually think a better compromise to help the situation would have been to cut the interest payments to no more than say....2% going forward.  No 10-12% figure that makes it nearly impossible to ever pay off.  

THIS, THIS, THIS!!!

It's tough to pay down a high amount of principal if the interest rates are so high.    So, rather than cutting a $10k - $20k check to apply to principal, cut the interest rates so it's easier to pay off.   

Otherwise, you knock down the principal a little, but you're still stuck in the wheel of interest if you're paying minimum or just-over-minimum payments per month.  In those cases, virtually nothing changes for the borrower in the near term.   IMO, when this happens, and borrowers see that they're still on the hook for virtually the same monthly payment as they were before, it's going to backfire, and people will scream that "It Wasn't Enough!!!"

Just stupid.

[UNTLifer]

10 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

I'm gonna preface this reply with the perhaps surprising statement that I understand, at least in principal, the opposition to student debt forgiveness. I am a person who has carried very little debt throughout his life...I minimized my loans and worked considerably to pay for my time at UNT. I can hear those "personal responsibility" chants and they at least register with me and speak to how I've managed my finances and financial decisions. 

that said...I also fully recognize that I am fortunate and truly the last vestiges of a generation. I made my way through UNT right before the state deregulated tuition rates...I left UNT and entered a job market that still paid entry level workers enough to live in the then housing/rental market and not have to compromise between paying for food or student loan debt...and because of that I managed to pay my loans off in 2-3 years after graduating. 

those were not the conditions that the subsequent ten-plus years worth of graduates encountered despite being sold on the exact same pitch I was about college. tuition costs soared...cost of living rose considerably...hell, requirements for basic entry level positions changed (your grade school teacher does not need an effing Masters) and all the while wages stayed stagnant. these aren't political statements. its quantifiable math. and as such that generation that entered college after me faced a mountain upon leaving college, even those who managed their finances as pragmatically as I did.

the math changed. 

 

This is sadly spot on, but at some point, the individual taking out the loan has to determine if they will be able to repay the loan.  If not, consider other options.

This isn't loan forgiveness.  This is shifting the financial responsibility to others.

[UNTLifer]

1 minute ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

THIS, THIS, THIS!!!

It's tough to pay down a high amount of principal if the interest rates are so high.    So, rather than cutting a $10k - $20k check to apply to principal, cut the interest rates so it's easier to pay off.   

Otherwise, you knock down the principal a little, but you're still stuck in the wheel of interest if you're paying minimum or just-over-minimum payments per month.  In those cases, virtually nothing changes for the borrower in the near term.   IMO, when this happens, and borrowers see that they're still on the hook for virtually the same monthly payment as they were before, it's going to backfire, and people will scream that "It Wasn't Enough!!!"

Just stupid.

What is keeping someone from refinancing the loan?  Wasn't the student aware of this interest rate when they took out the loan?

[Cr1028]

2 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

What is keeping someone from refinancing the loan?  Wasn't the student aware of this interest rate when they took out the loan?

I can tell you from my own experience that as an 18 year old kid without alot of money coming from a single mom household I had no concept of the burden. I had never had debt to that point. I didn’t understand what it was like making debt payments and how much interest extends the length of time it takes to repay a debt. At that time my only thought was, I need to go to college to make money and when I finish I will be making plenty of money to pay this off then. What I didn’t consider at that time was the cost of providing myself housing, food, and transportation. Things that up until that point had always been provided for me.

I agree with you that a 40 year old that maxes out a credit card at 25% interest is digging his own grave but most of these 18 year old kids really have little to no concept of what awaits them on the other side of college.

[Coffee and TV]

52 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Exactly.  The president doesn't have this authority with just a swipe of his pen.

He does, no matter how many times you keep repeating this. 

[keith]

A question for those of you who took out a loan to pay for college.  

Who did you borrow the money from?

[Censored by Laurie]

 

11 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

This is sadly spot on, but at some point, the individual taking out the loan has to determine if they will be able to repay the loan.  If not, consider other options.

This isn't loan forgiveness.  This is shifting the financial responsibility to others.

I actually somewhat agree with you (if nothing else, that should keep this thread open for another few hours)...the problem here though is that what the last 15-20 years worth of college students have been sold on is not remotely what has been delivered post-college. 

the college experience I think we've all been sold on is that for many/most you need a college degree to enter most professional fields and that through some combination of work, scholarships, family assistance and loans you can finance that, leave with debt that is meant to be paid down in 2-5 years through salary at entry-ish level positions. far from an ideal system, but yet one that was manageable for most. I'm 40, graduated in '05 and did a grad year in '06...I just skated in under the closing door of that above social contract being valid. 

students entering college from say 2005 onward have also been sold that same line on college by peers/parents/society...but the back-end of the contract has not at all been held up. 

again, I agree with the idea of personal financial responsibility. at the same time, I want institutional financial responsibility as well.

I liken this to person purchasing their first home, but never ever being informed that they need conduct an inspection, the bank never offering an appraisal nor conducting a debt-assessment (which I suppose if done for college loans is based on the idea of future salary?)...so things keep breaking, the value of the property is well below purchase price and one can barely pay the mortgage. 

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

Exactly.  The president doesn't have this authority with just a swipe of his pen.

Where does this come from? I'm under the impression - not just from Trump - that his power is pretty freaking incredible.

Why is it out of his authority to forgive loans, but they can pardon anyone that has been convicted by the judicial system?

 

38 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

What is keeping someone from refinancing the loan?  Wasn't the student aware of this interest rate when they took out the loan?

Speaking from experience: knowing the numbers and knowing the real-life implications don't necessarily go hand in hand.  Sometimes you can ace all the math and still make the dumbest financial decisions imaginable.

I'm risking going off point here, but I feel pretty strongly our education system has become too focused on numbers, and not enough on experiential education.  Too many tests, not enough mentors.

[El Paso Eagle]

Seems to be no shortage of opinions regarding this. I can understand the relief expressed by many. Getting more than a little pissed at the ones saying it's not enough. I know a person who chose to go to an expensive out-of-state school. He does well and drives a very nice car and has a motorcycle, ATV, and a boat. He is one of the ones bitching that it's not fair that's all their "offering".

P.S. - Would be nice if our politicians would do something for the elderly on fixed income. 

 

[UNTLifer]

22 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

He does, no matter how many times you keep repeating this. 

@Coffee and TV well looky here my liberal friend.

https://thecollegeinvestor.com/35892/is-student-loan-forgiveness-by-executive-order-legal/

"The President does not have the legal authority to forgive student loans on his own. Only Congress has the power of the purse. Executive action can be used only when it has been specifically authorized by Congress.

The executive branch cannot spend money that has not been appropriated by Congress, per 31 USC 1301 et seq (Antideficiency Act (P.L. 97-258)) and Article I, Section 7, Clause 7 of the U.S. Constitution.

The claims that the President has the authority to forgive student loans are based on a misreading of the Higher Education Act of 1965 at 20 USC 1082(a)(6). "

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by UNTLifer

[El Paso Eagle]

2 minutes ago, greenminer said:

Where does this come from? I'm under the impression - not just from Trump - that his power is pretty freaking incredible.

Why is it out of his authority to forgive loans, but they can pardon anyone that has been convicted by the judicial system?

 

Speaking from experience: knowing the numbers and knowing the real-life implications don't necessarily go hand in hand.  Sometimes you can ace all the math and still make the dumbest financial decisions imaginable.

I'm risking going off point here, but I feel pretty strongly our education system has become too focused on numbers, and not enough on experiential education.  Too many tests, not enough mentors.

From a family experience I can agree this is true. Many schools are pushing programs that will get you a degree, but that's about it. You might be surprised by how many students are finishing with Multidisciplinary/General studies degrees. 

[keith]

19 minutes ago, Coffee and TV said:

He does, no matter how many times you keep repeating this. 

Nancy Pelosi would like to have a word with you.