One of my theories regarding Littrell

meanrob · June 29

Last year during a game Aune went back to pass and bounced a third down pass in the middle of the field to a covered WR to end a drive. As the players jogged off the field one of the announcers remarked that there was an open WR going up the sideline and Aune had missed it. Just as he was saying this the camera caught a frustrated SL talking to Aune on the sidelines. He looked exasperated as he pointed out where Aune should've thrown the ball. From all that was going on it seemed SL had called the right play but AA had made the wrong throw. Not the only time this happened. Back to this later.

I don't buy the idea that things fell off when GH left. Sure, having him here was a positive but I think having SL, GH and Mason Fine here along with future NFL WRs and RB was the biggest positive. I never really felt that we were watching some genius coaching staff constantly outscheming the opponent. It felt like part of it was the scheme/playcalling but a lot of it was having good talent execute the scheme. Those 2017 and 2018 offenses were very good, but even so we only scored fourteen points against an okay 8-5 Iowa team. We'd bog down for long portions of a game then hit long tds. Fine would chuck it downfield to WRs who know where he wanted to go. It seemed like we scored a lot of points on big plays, not moving the ball up and down the field. Having said that, the Fine to Guyton short to mid pass where Guyton caught it while sliding was super effective. Wonder how much of that was scheme or just two players knowing each other's strengths.

Then GH and Fine were gone. No doubt big losses but it went downhill fast. And here's my thoughts on that-

I think SL is very good at schemes. I think he's probably pretty good at playcalling (inside the twenty can be debated) but I think he thought he could keep the ball rolling without a QB coach and without a incredibly smart quarterback because he had confidence in his schemes and it burned him. Having a quarterback coach allowed him to tend to other on-field coaching duties but still have his quarterback get the instruction and reinforcement of what he wanted. Maybe Fine only needed to be told things five times but another quarterback needs to hear it consistently. Take that away and trade a Fine for an Aune (sorry to pick on AA so much here) and you get the quarterback throwing to the wrong area. Or throwing an INT in the end zone instead of throwing it away.

Which is why Gunnell (or whoever starts) might not need Bloesch to be a quarterback whisper, they just need him to constantly be there coaching them on the schemes and right things to do. Littrell just might not be the best hands on coach, he just creates the offense and needs another coach to teach/coach his quarterback. That has been missing for a while now. I don't know if all this can happen with Gunnell showing up in the fall. Fall camp is going to be very interesting.

Here's the rub. It doesn't matter what SL is good at. It doesn't matter if he called the right play. It's on him to get the right players to do the right things being taught by the right coaching staff. He's not the offensive coordinator. He's the CEO of North Texas football and it all falls on him. And it hasn't been working lately. The more I think about a full staff and probably a good staff the more I'm getting hopeful for the season. But pointing where the ball should've gone and being frustrated on the sideline won't cut it this year.

meanrob · June 29

Guess my point is that at our peak we had talent and infrastructure on offense.

The last couple years we lacked infrastructure which may have affected our talent although I'm not sure Aune is the answer.

Hopefully with infrastructure this year and possible new talent, we get back on track.

Pellom · June 30

1 hour ago, meanrob said:

Guess my point is that at our peak we had talent and infrastructure on offense.

The last couple years we lacked infrastructure which may have affected our talent although I'm not sure Aune is the answer.

Hopefully with infrastructure this year and possible new talent, we get back on track.

I think the entirety of the lack of identity goes to not trusting your QB to make basic reads and basic throws.

I posted this in another thread but I have rarely seen a QB with worse footwork than Aune. He is continually moving backwards and throwing off his back foot. When they design specific throws for him, he runs backwards and to the sideline before getting his eyes up.

Some of the issue is offensive line - no doubt about it - but at some point as a QB in the kind of system Littrell wants to run, you have to stand in the pocket and zip a ball into tight windows. Aune showed very little ability to do that consistently.

I don’t know if Gunnell is the answer. But if he has the moxie to stand in there and make the designed throws, I think it will go a long way.

tmjerm · June 30

Great take

UNT86 · June 30

Let's also give Littrell credit where it is due. He finally hit on a DC and the defense was MUCH improved. He changed the offense to a downhill running scheme mid-season because of our talent and what we could do best. He took much of the pressure off our QB to win the game and we went on a win streak and gave a ranked team a beat down. He also held together a team that went through a losing streak that could have finished off many teams.

He hasn't been perfect, but who is. And when your best assistants get poached every year, it is hard on the program.

Remember, the coaching grass isn't always greener on the other side.

meanrob · June 30

2 hours ago, UNT86 said:

Let's also give Littrell credit where it is due. He finally hit on a DC and the defense was MUCH improved. He changed the offense to a downhill running scheme mid-season because of our talent and what we could do best. He took much of the pressure off our QB to win the game and we went on a win streak and gave a ranked team a beat down. He also held together a team that went through a losing streak that could have finished off many teams.

He hasn't been perfect, but who is. And when your best assistants get poached every year, it is hard on the program.

Remember, the coaching grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Was mostly focusing on the offense and qb situation. Hope things get better with a full staff.

The grass may not always be greener (see Dodge) but you can’t build a program with 4-4-6 win seasons. Especially moving to a tougher conference.

TheColonyEagle · June 30

Good stuff Rob. I agree.

Also, I'm not going to say we "overrate" Mason Fine. But I think we "underrate" his receiving corp and what they did for him. Look at the 4 receivers he had vs what we had last year. Didn't our top 3 go down with injury? At least our top 2.

Guyton, Bussey, Lawrence, Darden

Mason Fine was great....but we didn't have 1 receiver with meaningful playing time last year that could crack that top 4. I would say Roderic Burns, but he would be at best #4 on that list whereas last year he was our #1.

Fine had 3 NFL receivers to throw to. Think about that....3 of his receivers went to the NFL. In the history of our program, we've never had that.

And I'll add....as critical as I've been of Littrell, he still gets a huge amount of credit for changing this offense last season and playing off its strength, running the ball. His ability to adapt was the #1 reason we went on that run late. He gets major kudos for that.

But he's not going to make his living running the ball...he's going to have to get back to a passing game. I think that's what he wants to do.

Hopefully we get healthy WRs and better QB play.

meanrob · June 30

7 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

Good stuff Rob. I agree.

Also, I'm not going to say we "overrate" Mason Fine. But I think we "underrate" his receiving corp and what they did for him. Look at the 4 receivers he had vs what we had last year. Didn't our top 3 go down with injury? At least our top 2.

Guyton, Bussey, Lawrence, Darden

Mason Fine was great....but we didn't have 1 receiver with meaningful playing time last year that could crack that top 4. I would say Roderic Burns, but he would be at best #4 on that list whereas last year he was our #1.

Fine had 3 NFL receivers to throw to. Think about that....3 of his receivers went to the NFL. In the history of our program, we've never had that.

And I'll add....as critical as I've been of Littrell, he still gets a huge amount of credit for changing this offense last season and playing off its strength, running the ball. His ability to adapt was the #1 reason we went on that run late. He gets major kudos for that.

But he's not going to make his living running the ball...he's going to have to get back to a passing game. I think that's what he wants to do.

Hopefully we get healthy WRs and better QB play.

I would never say he was overrated either but I will say I think he didn’t reach his full potential as crazy as that sounds. If he would’ve thrown the ball away sometimes or just taken what the defense was giving I think he would’ve been off the charts good. Maybe even Kellen Moore good.

More like a Peyton Manning approach, he would’ve taken less hits. Then again maybe he was coached into that.

You could also say that style won us a few games (UTSA) and led to some big plays. Certainly led to some great moments.

GrayEagle · July 1

Good read, Rob. I also liked what UNT86 added about switching to the running game. I believe that was responsible for the five-game winning streak.

wardly · July 1

1 hour ago, GrayEagle said:

Good read, Rob. I also liked what UNT86 added about switching to the running game. I believe that was responsible for the five-game winning streak.

Plus, with the exception of UTSA, the teams we beat were the dredges of CUSA.

97and03 · July 2

On 6/30/2022 at 6:17 AM, Pellom said:

I don’t know if Gunnell is the answer. But if he has the moxie to stand in there and make the designed throws, I think it will go a long way.

And this is what actually made Fine a great QB. He made throws others QBs don’t make (see UTSA throw to Rico) bc he was willing to hang in the pocket long enough for the play to develop. Others bail out sooner and the throw doesn’t happen. How many times did Fine complete a pass and end up flat on his back?

Jonnyeagle · July 2

9 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

And this is what actually made Fine a great QB. He made throws others QBs don’t make (see UTSA throw to Rico) bc he was willing to hang in the pocket long enough for the play to develop. Others bail out sooner and the throw doesn’t happen. How many times did Fine complete a pass and end up flat on his back?

Well if the receiving corp is healthy meaning specifically Jyaire and Tommy are back we should be loaded with them and Bryson, Latrell, Maclin, and Roderick.

97and03 · July 3

23 hours ago, 97and03 said:

And this is what actually made Fine a great QB. He made throws others QBs don’t make (see UTSA throw to Rico) bc he was willing to hang in the pocket long enough for the play to develop. Others bail out sooner and the throw doesn’t happen. How many times did Fine complete a pass and end up flat on his back?

As if someone read my mind/post.

El Paso Eagle · July 3

On 6/29/2022 at 6:17 PM, Pellom said:

I think the entirety of the lack of identity goes to not trusting your QB to make basic reads and basic throws.

I posted this in another thread but I have rarely seen a QB with worse footwork than Aune. He is continually moving backwards and throwing off his back foot. When they design specific throws for him, he runs backwards and to the sideline before getting his eyes up.

Some of the issue is offensive line - no doubt about it - but at some point as a QB in the kind of system Littrell wants to run, you have to stand in the pocket and zip a ball into tight windows. Aune showed very little ability to do that consistently.

I don’t know if Gunnell is the answer. But if he has the moxie to stand in there and make the designed throws, I think it will go a long way.

I still believe the lack of a quality QB coach makes a tremendous difference. QB coaches do make a difference. Even at the professional level you can see stories where players discuss the impact of the QB coach on their performance.

UNTLifer · July 3

18 hours ago, 97and03 said:

As if someone read my mind/post.

Still love watching the cheerleader with her arms outstretched. Makes me laugh. Great memory.

southsideguy · July 6

I sometimes wonder if SL had gone KSU would he still be there?

TIgreen01 · July 7

On 7/5/2022 at 10:55 PM, southsideguy said:

I sometimes wonder if SL had gone KSU would he still be there?

Depends on how much of that UNT staff went with him. He’d have needed to retool his defensive staff though.

A coaching staff is exactly that…a staff, not just one guy. Even Saban is replacing coaches regularly at Bama. It’s more about how well he can identify talented assistants, promote and retain or replace. Seth has shown a willingness to change things up when things aren’t working and he’s worked through a lot of coaching staff turnover after being so successful those first 3 years. Bringing in Bennett was a phenomenal hire, but he’s been less successful putting together an offensive staff that rivals that first one he had.

Edited July 7 by TIgreen01