Why can't we be the next Houston?

[UNTLifer]

2 hours ago, p_phelps said:

50 years ago doesn't do anything to help them. Kids now don't even know what the SWC is. They've hired excellent coaches and fired ones that needed it. They put a value on sports, something we only recently have done. Paid off immensely with basketball.  Wren needs to do the same with football and we can have a conversation.

It pushed them ahead of us at the time and we have been behind ever since, way behind when a decade later we dropped to 1AA, so yes it did help them get ahead of us and they have stayed ahead since then.

[El Paso Eagle]

13 hours ago, meanJewGreen said:

I think past success (FB and BB helped) still think we're also still recovering from 30 years of neglect

Some of the newer fans might not understand just how true this statement is

Edited March 3, 2022 by El Paso Eagle

[Green Otaku]

To go along with me previous post I think we need to be completely honest in that our advantages on paper have carried us to our new conferences and not our on field success. Things like location, school size, facilities, Texas recruiting, etc., have gotten us in over other schools. I think we've ridden that train as far as we can, if we want to make the next leap I think we all know that we have to make national level buzz in FB and BB. 

[meangreen11]

30 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

To go along with me previous post I think we need to be completely honest in that our advantages on paper have carried us to our new conferences and not our on field success. Things like location, school size, facilities, Texas recruiting, etc., have gotten us in over other schools. I think we've ridden that train as far as we can, if we want to make the next leap I think we all know that we have to make national level buzz in FB and BB. 

Agree 100%.  I think the AAC is the perfect place to make the next step.  We have to do better at coaching hires, obviously in football but basketball hasn't been perfect either (Benford and Trill come to mind).

I see three key goals that we need to focus in on asap.

If I am the AD right now I do everything in my power to retain McCasland.  Break the bank, promise him your firstborn son whatever it takes. 

Next, you absolutely have to make the right hire in football.  This may require you moving out of your safety blanket and you may have to tell the sensitive crowd - who expects a boy scout who can win - to pound sand.  It will cost money and it will require a much closer focus on the ability to recruit and build at a G5.   It will also require a commitment to the assistant salary pool.  Just paying the head guy a lot has clearly not worked well for us.  

The third and equally as important piece is getting the athletic center expanded or redone or whatever you want to call it.  If we can do those three things we will be well positioned for a bright future in the AAC.

[GMG_Dallas]

1 hour ago, Green Otaku said:

To go along with me previous post I think we need to be completely honest in that our advantages on paper have carried us to our new conferences and not our on field success. Things like location, school size, facilities, Texas recruiting, etc., have gotten us in over other schools. I think we've ridden that train as far as we can, if we want to make the next leap I think we all know that we have to make national level buzz in FB and BB. 

No different than other Texas schools... if you think Houston had been dominating C-USA when they accepted their Big East/AAC invite, you might need to look at their football/basketball records by year. Per the UH forum, they accepted their invite October/November 2011. From 2000 to 2010, Houston made the NCAA tourney once and lost in the first round. In that same span, Houston football had two 10-win seasons but also an 0-11 season. Don't believe they ever won their conference. I'd say the Houston market has carried them but they've certainly taken advantage in the past 5-6 years.

[Green Otaku]

9 minutes ago, GMG_Dallas said:

No different than other Texas schools... if you think Houston had been dominating C-USA when they accepted their Big East/AAC invite, you might need to look at their football/basketball records by year. Per the UH forum, they accepted their invite October/November 2011. From 2000 to 2010, Houston made the NCAA tourney once and lost in the first round. In that same span, Houston football had two 10-win seasons but also an 0-11 season. Don't believe they ever won their conference. I'd say the Houston market has carried them but they've certainly taken advantage in the past 5-6 years.

 

Agreed. Let's hope we learn from pervious teams and emulate their success. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

1 hour ago, Green Otaku said:

To go along with me previous post I think we need to be completely honest in that our advantages on paper have carried us to our new conferences and not our on field success. Things like location, school size, facilities, Texas recruiting, etc., have gotten us in over other schools. I think we've ridden that train as far as we can, if we want to make the next leap I think we all know that we have to make national level buzz in FB and BB. 

Everything after the 5th word was read in a pirate's accent.

[Green Otaku]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Everything after the 5th word was read in a pirate's accent.

I was so confused until I wen't back and re-read my post. 😂

[keith]

Durning the late summer/early fall last year there was an analysis of college football/conference affiliation across a broad spectrum of attributes by Tony Altimore (altimorecollins.com).  It got a lot of traction and I think there was a podcast or YouTube video that went along with his presentation.  I didn't buy into every thing he was saying, but as I recall he was very high on the job the president of UH was doing.  There was some significant deficit spending as they were dumping truckloads of money into athletics (all with board approval), but the message was athletics can bring good will to a university faster than just about anything else.  We all know the saying that athletics is a window on a university.  UH went all in on that.  Its elevation into the P5 world is the reward for that investment and will allow them to pay back all that deficit spending from the last few years and then some. 

[Mean Green Matt]

Why can’t Houston be the next North Texas?

[aztecskin]

I apologize for being too poor to make NT into Houston. I'm trying, folks. I really am. 

[GMG_Dallas]

8 minutes ago, aztecskin said:

I apologize for being too poor to make NT into Houston. I'm trying, folks. I really am. 

I feel you on this. Ever since I found out Fertita has mob ties I've been working on a career change. Been mailing resumes to every local mob I can find. Working on my pizza dough tosses while I wait on callbacks. Fingers crossed🤞

[untjim1995]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:55 PM, p_phelps said:

50 years ago doesn't do anything to help them. Kids now don't even know what the SWC is. They've hired excellent coaches and fired ones that needed it. They put a value on sports, something we only recently have done. Paid off immensely with basketball.  Wren needs to do the same with football and we can have a conversation.

Do you not think that UH grads of the 60s, when Elvin Hayes led them to a win over UCLA on national tv at the Astrodome didn’t feel a huge connection to their alma mater? How about the 70s, when they won the SWC in football a few times? How about the 80s when Phi Slamma Jamma ruled the day in hoops? Or in todays CFB world where they’ve had top ten football teams recently, along with a Final Four appearance last year.? 
 

Now add in the energy capital of the US and their grads being well known for business, engineering, and science, all of which pay nice incomes…it’s a tad better than teachers and arts majors, particularly for a school that has been apathetic at best and loathed the athletic department for decades.

[p_phelps]

10 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Do you not think that UH grads of the 60s, when Elvin Hayes led them to a win over UCLA on national tv at the Astrodome didn’t feel a huge connection to their alma mater? How about the 70s, when they won the SWC in football a few times? How about the 80s when Phi Slamma Jamma ruled the day in hoops? Or in todays CFB world where they’ve had top ten football teams recently, along with a Final Four appearance last year.? 
 

Now add in the energy capital of the US and their grads being well known for business, engineering, and science, all of which pay nice incomes…it’s a tad better than teachers and arts majors, particularly for a school that has been apathetic at best and loathed the athletic department for decades.

I think the kids today couldn't care less about what happened 40 and 50 years ago 

[greenminer]

4 hours ago, p_phelps said:

I think the kids today couldn't care less about what happened 40 and 50 years ago 

The culture is still there, even if you aren't aware of the label.  Hard to walk into a sports apparel store/section and not notice the same old SWC brands getting first priority.

I never watched SWC sports, I started following college sports about the very same year it dissolved.  I never heard of it until I decided to start reading around about why I was seeing the same handful of teams at the front of these stores.

[UNTLifer]

13 hours ago, p_phelps said:

I think the kids today couldn't care less about what happened 40 and 50 years ago 

I would agree but that wasn’t the point. Being in the SWC at a time we weren’t positioned them ahead of us and it has really never changed especially considering our last leaders decided to drop us down to 1AA with the likes of SFA, SHSU, La-Mo, etc…. We became identified by the “company we kept” as did UH. 

[p_phelps]

2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I would agree but that wasn’t the point. Being in the SWC at a time we weren’t positioned them ahead of us and it has really never changed especially considering our last leaders decided to drop us down to 1AA with the likes of SFA, SHSU, La-Mo, etc…. We became identified by the “company we kept” as did UH. 

I just don't buy it, why hasn't smu done the same until they made a good coaching hire. Agree to disagree 

[UNTLifer]

23 minutes ago, p_phelps said:

I just don't buy it, why hasn't smu done the same until they made a good coaching hire. Agree to disagree 

Death penalty and a culture of corruption at a time UH was introducing the world to Phi Slamma Jamma in basketball and the Run N Shoot in football. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by UNTLifer

[wardly]

Well, UNT is in Denton, and the Cougars are in Houston. Big difference in media coverage, access to alumni with deep pockets, and huge population. While they were in the SWC, AAC, and now Big 12, we were in Southland, Big West, Sun Belt, and ACC. I don't think we are comparing  apples to apples with Houston in the conversation, and probably in another decade or so UTSA . While the Roadrunners have no success in basketball and very little in football they have a large city to draw fans and money from, and this years football team got very good media coverage . We seem to be doing a better job with fans in Dallas, but I don't understand why we have made little if any inroads into the Ft. Worth market. Our medical school partnership with TCU dissolved in January with the Horned Frogs going it alone. Perhaps a satellite campus is something to consider to increase visibility as well as fill a academic need.

[p_phelps]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:04 PM, UNTLifer said:

Death penalty and a culture of corruption at a time UH was introducing the world to Phi Slamma Jamma in basketball and the Run N Shoot in football. 

I'll be honestly I'm 30, and I watched a ton about sports growing up. I didn't even know what the smu death penalty was until the espn 30 for 30... I don't think that stuff matters today

[UNTLifer]

21 hours ago, p_phelps said:

I'll be honestly I'm 30, and I watched a ton about sports growing up. I didn't even know what the smu death penalty was until the espn 30 for 30... I don't think that stuff matters today

So, in the early 90's we were in the Southland Conference with McNeese, Northwestern St., SFA, etc. in D1AA.  We moved "up" to the Big West with the likes of Boise St. (before anyone cared), Idaho, Utah St., Nevada Reno, NMSU, etc.

At the same time, Houston was in the SWC with UT, A&M, TX Tech, Baylor, TCU, etc.  When it broke up, they joined CUSA which had teams like Cincinnati (basketball power at the time), DePaul, Memphis, TCU, SMU, etc.

This is what I mean when I say UH had a head start.  They were defined by the company they kept and their goal has been to get back to that level, a level we have never achieved conference wise.

[wardly]

9 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

So, in the early 90's we were in the Southland Conference with McNeese, Northwestern St., SFA, etc. in D1AA.  We moved "up" to the Big West with the likes of Boise St. (before anyone cared), Idaho, Utah St., Nevada Reno, NMSU, etc.

At the same time, Houston was in the SWC with UT, A&M, TX Tech, Baylor, TCU, etc.  When it broke up, they joined CUSA which had teams like Cincinnati (basketball power at the time), DePaul, Memphis, TCU, SMU, etc.

This is what I mean when I say UH had a head start.  They were defined by the company they kept and their goal has been to get back to that level, a level we have never achieved conference wise.

Our football glory years were in the 60's and  70's when the SEC and SWC were segregated and if a black athlete wanted to play in Texas NTSU was their primary option.

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, wardly said:

Our football glory years were in the 60's and  70's when the SEC and SWC were segregated and if a black athlete wanted to play in Texas NTSU was their primary option.

Yes they were.

[meangreenfaninno]

I found this and thought it explained the difference pretty well:

After losing head coach Tom Herman to Texas and notching 22 wins in two seasons, Houston president Renu Khator famously declared at a 2016 school holiday party that "the winning is defined at University of Houston as 10-2. We'll fire coaches at 8-4." Indeed, Herman's successor, Major Applewhite, got fired after going 7-5 and 8-5 in 2017 and '18.

[p_phelps]

8 hours ago, meangreenfaninno said:

I found this and thought it explained the difference pretty well:

After losing head coach Tom Herman to Texas and notching 22 wins in two seasons, Houston president Renu Khator famously declared at a 2016 school holiday party that "the winning is defined at University of Houston as 10-2. We'll fire coaches at 8-4." Indeed, Herman's successor, Major Applewhite, got fired after going 7-5 and 8-5 in 2017 and '18.

THIS, we have a guy that had no business coming back for another year. This is the difference. Not 60 years ago. They've made sports a priority and don't accept losing.