Super Pit Question

[golfingomez]

3 hours ago, ADLER said:

Dammit! Now you've gotten me playing with my Mean Green Legos.

The university needs to build a grand auditorium, something that can really be used to bolster our performing arts and also host concerts and celebrity speakers as well as seat graduating classes as large as 1200 on it's stage.. We are the "arts & music" school of America, we need it. Build it where the intramural fields (and Cement City) are now.

 

You want a stage large enough to have 1,200 grads (plus all the pomp and circumstance)???? how many of those stages are there?

The Murch is a pretty badass building for performances

[UNT 90 Grad]

44 minutes ago, NM Green said:

The SuperPit needs to be relegated to graduations and other events. It’s been a great venue dripping with history. But the new venue needs to have modern amenities including a beer garden, jack daniels club, current eats and natural light.

See Q2 stadium in Austin. It needs to rival anything the Big 12 will build in the future, Texas is hoops land now. Create a venue in the rich Metroplex that people will come to for fun win lose suck or be great. 

GMG 

Honest, when I first read your post, I misunderstood what you meant when you said the new arena needed current eats and natural light. 

[wardly]

4 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Does or does not?  If they do, since when?

The Super Pit is not a dedicated  athletic facility but a multipurpose arena owned and managed by the university. Our athletic department must schedule games, practices, and any other event just like any other department. This was the only way we could get  it constructed as the state of Texas does not allow university funds to be used to build athletic facilities.

[ADLER]

18 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

You want a stage large enough to have 1,200 grads (plus all the pomp and circumstance)???? how many of those stages are there?

The Murch is a pretty badass building for performances

With graduations being a major design factor, a stage with 60 seats wide and 20 seats deep should be no real challenge.

Add in all the current huge video boards to display to 10,000 seats and it would be a perfect component to add to this "Heart of Denton County".

It would be hard to deny that the I-35 split at Apogee, with it's access to Universities, hospitals, and our regional airport is the heart of this county. We need a centralized venue that can host graduations for the myriad of schools attended by the taxpayers of this county, a facility that can host events that would be an economic boon to the city and county.

If you question this, please look at Jefferson County, Alabama, half the population of Denton County and a quarter of the tax revenue. They built a new stadium for UAB and an enormous convention center/performance hall to create a revenue generating heart to the city: Denton and UNT should copy that model.

https://protectivestadium.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham–Jefferson_Convention_Complex

We could easily have that, but on a much grander scale. We have one of the world's largest airports 22 miles from campus and one of the most affluent counties in the country. It is certainly not a reach to say this is all feasible within the next twenty years.

 

[UNTLifer]

20 minutes ago, wardly said:

The Super Pit is not a dedicated  athletic facility but a multipurpose arena owned and managed by the university. Our athletic department must schedule games, practices, and any other event just like any other department. This was the only way we could get  it constructed as the state of Texas does not allow university funds to be used to build athletic facilities.

That is what I thought, but @drex’s comment threw me off. 

[Clinetort]

1 hour ago, NM Green said:

The SuperPit needs to be relegated to graduations and other events. It’s been a great venue dripping with history. But the new venue needs to have modern amenities including a beer garden, jack daniels club, current eats and natural light.

See Q2 stadium in Austin. It needs to rival anything the Big 12 will build in the future, Texas is hoops land now. Create a venue in the rich Metroplex that people will come to for fun win lose suck or be great. 

GMG 

This is just freaking ridiculous;). A freaking beer garden?  Ha!

[DentonLurker]

13 hours ago, greenjoe said:

Good morning Lurker.  Please, go on and on about the things modern arenas have that the Coliseum lacks.  I'll hang up and listen.

Great win and 8,500 fans saw it.

GO MEAN REEN

Okay. I’ll bite. The Super Pit needs:  suites, real floor seats (not an afterthought that gets snuck in there on risers; including space to do baseline seats without a huge gap behind them before you have additional fans; and the tables in front of the floor seats are ridiculous- this one is just a pet peeve of mine), a seating arrangement that’s built for basketball with fans as close to the court as you can get them, a real donor room (with a sports bar/lounge feel with tv’s, a bar, wait staff, etc.), a state of the art press area (those green things over there are hideous; and if you’ve never seen where they do postgame interviews, it’s a dog of an area), locker rooms that have all the latest and greatest bells and whistles, players lounge, training room, weight room, snack/small meal area for players, practice facility connected to the arena that isn’t an old piece of crap building, way more concession stands that don’t imped foot traffic through the concourse, etc.

And quite frankly, I’d get behind any price tag on a new arena if it meant Grant McCasland knew and felt our commitment to his program in a way that might keep him hear for the foreseeable future.

[golfingomez]

52 minutes ago, ADLER said:

With graduations being a major design factor, a stage with 60 seats wide and 20 seats deep should be no real challenge.

Add in all the current huge video boards to display to 10,000 seats and it would be a perfect component to add to this "Heart of Denton County".

It would be hard to deny that the I-35 split at Apogee, with it's access to Universities, hospitals, and our regional airport is the heart of this county. We need a centralized venue that can host graduations for the myriad of schools attended by the taxpayers of this county, a facility that can host events that would be an economic boon to the city and county.

If you question this, please look at Jefferson County, Alabama, half the population of Denton County and a quarter of the tax revenue. They built a new stadium for UAB and an enormous convention center/performance hall to create a revenue generating heart to the city: Denton and UNT should copy that model.

https://protectivestadium.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham–Jefferson_Convention_Complex

We could easily have that, but on a much grander scale. We have one of the world's largest airports 22 miles from campus and one of the most affluent counties in the country. It is certainly not a reach to say this is all feasible within the next twenty years.

 

i don't care about anything you just said above. i don't care if we build something or if we don't...

my question is, you think you can fit 1,200 adults onto a an auditorium stage comfortably? including presenters and the "stage" they have to walk across?

i don't want to get to technical here and start calculating sq. ft. per folding chair, and start thinking through reasonable room for the graduates/space to walk/space for the speakers(which way would the podium face? normally, you want the graduates to be your audience, especially if you have a commencement address?... etc

 

did a little research (Greggo voice)... looks like i don't know how big stages can get

https://mynews4.com/news/local/nevada-proud-worlds-largest-stage-shines-in-grand-theatre

[Glory to the Green]

The SP is fine. We had 8K+ last night. In comparison, College GameDay At Baylor had 10K+. Just keep winning! GMG!

 

[NT80]

Many of the best college basketball programs in the country play in older facilities than the SuperPit, and with fewer amenities.  And those fans value those venues.  Fenway Park in Boston is small and cramped.  It would lose 3000 seats behind home plate if updated to modern requirements of seat width.  Dare you to suggest they replace it or add an automated scoreboard and such!

[ADLER]

8 minutes ago, golfingomez said:

i don't care about anything you just said above. i don't care if we build something or if we don't...

my question is, you think you can fit 1,200 adults onto a an auditorium stage comfortably? including presenters and the "stage" they have to walk across?

i don't want to get to technical here and start calculating sq. ft. per folding chair, and start thinking through reasonable room for the graduates/space to walk/space for the speakers(which way would the podium face? normally, you want the graduates to be your audience, especially if you have a commencement address?... etc

 

did a little research (Greggo voice)... looks like i don't know how big stages can get

https://mynews4.com/news/local/nevada-proud-worlds-largest-stage-shines-in-grand-theatre

I seriously doubt architects or engineers will consult me for advice, but that Nevada stage is an acre, while a 1200 graduating class would require only 60 seats wide by 20 seats deep. With modern video boards, they too could watch stage proceedings.

That size stage would probably be ideal for Broadway style performances as well as utilized for major concerts. Heck, the whole Green Brigade could assemble on that stage.

Now I'm getting out my ruler to figure square footage.

[greenminer]

32 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

Okay. I’ll bite. The Super Pit needs:  suites, real floor seats (not an afterthought that gets snuck in there on risers; including space to do baseline seats without a huge gap behind them before you have additional fans; and the tables in front of the floor seats are ridiculous- this one is just a pet peeve of mine), a seating arrangement that’s built for basketball with fans as close to the court as you can get them, a real donor room (with a sports bar/lounge feel with tv’s, a bar, wait staff, etc.), a state of the art press area (those green things over there are hideous; and if you’ve never seen where they do postgame interviews, it’s a dog of an area), locker rooms that have all the latest and greatest bells and whistles, players lounge, training room, weight room, snack/small meal area for players, practice facility connected to the arena that isn’t an old piece of crap building, way more concession stands that don’t imped foot traffic through the concourse, etc.

And quite frankly, I’d get behind any price tag on a new arena if it meant Grant McCasland knew and felt our commitment to his program in a way that might keep him hear for the foreseeable future.

These are all things we think of when we are talking state of the art. If we go that route, sure.

As CMJ has already pointed out, we (CBB) have legendary facilities that people are hesitant to “upgrade”, and those programs have been fine.

Wren will ultimately make the final call based on what he thinks we need to move forward with.

 I wonder what he thinks? And Does anyone have any real insight into what Grant wants? He might be fine with our arena. Might be other areas he wants money thrown at first.

Edited February 28, 2022 by greenminer

[Clinetort]

8 hours ago, DentonLurker said:

Okay. I’ll bite. The Super Pit needs:  suites, real floor seats (not an afterthought that gets snuck in there on risers; including space to do baseline seats without a huge gap behind them before you have additional fans; and the tables in front of the floor seats are ridiculous- this one is just a pet peeve of mine), a seating arrangement that’s built for basketball with fans as close to the court as you can get them, a real donor room (with a sports bar/lounge feel with tv’s, a bar, wait staff, etc.), a state of the art press area (those green things over there are hideous; and if you’ve never seen where they do postgame interviews, it’s a dog of an area), locker rooms that have all the latest and greatest bells and whistles, players lounge, training room, weight room, snack/small meal area for players, practice facility connected to the arena that isn’t an old piece of crap building, way more concession stands that don’t imped foot traffic through the concourse, etc.

And quite frankly, I’d get behind any price tag on a new arena if it meant Grant McCasland knew and felt our commitment to his program in a way that might keep him hear for the foreseeable future.

Everything you've mentioned here can be accomplished at the Super Pit with the exception of suites. How many suites does Cameron Indoor Arena have?

[DentonLurker]

4 minutes ago, Clinetort said:

Everything you've mentioned here can be accomplished at the Super Pit with the exception of suites.

We will have to agree to disagree here. We might be able to, but at the end of the day, I’m not convinced the price tag would be any cheaper.

 

8 hours ago, greenminer said:

Wren will ultimately make the final call based on what he thinks we need to move forward with.

Considering he put a new arena in the master plan, I’m going to assume we already know how he feels and that he’s spoken to his coaches to find out what they would like to see.

 

Also, I keep seeing old venues of some of the most historic sports teams in the history of sports referenced. Unfortunately, we don’t have their same history to trump the lack of amenities that fans expect. There’s a huge difference between those programs and ours.

[GMG_Dallas]

Oh my is this small time thinking. We can only ever get 4500 to show up so why have a 10k capacity. The same reason you try to keep good coaches and move into better conferences: to build a better athletic department. The last thing the school should want is to build a 7k arena only for it to be too small in a few years if the program finds sustained success.

Build a new one or don't. It's not my money. But don't box yourself into a space that may be too small in a few years. If 10k is too big, fine, but 7k is too small. Somewhere in the middle would be good. TCU and SMU's homes seat 6800 and 7000. Those are much smaller schools in terms of enrollment. Houston's arena seats just under 7,100 and is regularly sold out. Great, they sell out, but how do they grow attendance in the Big 12 now? Regarding arena age, their arenas were built in 1956 (SMU), 1961 (TCU), and 1969 (Houston) and were recently renovated for $40 million, $80 million, and $60 million respectively. If we can renovate and keep our home the same that's within walking distance of most dorms, I think that's the better option.

[Danish43]

On 2/27/2022 at 7:30 AM, DentonLurker said:

It’s about a lot more than suites. The Super Pit is just outdated. It’s lacking a ton of amenities that new arenas have. I could go on and on about the things modern arenas have that the Super Pit doesn’t have. Don’t let one game throw off your perspective on what size arena we should be playing in either. We averaged under 4k on the year. Do the math. That’s averaging less than a half-full arena with the best team I’ve seen suit up at the Super Pit.

Listen Bud, the Super Pit is still a good looking building and the heck with more modern arenas.  We have over 40,000 students and until we start putting more butts in the seats, it would be a waste of money to build another arena. What we need is better marketing to get a more consistent crowd.

[greenminer]

1 hour ago, DentonLurker said:

Also, I keep seeing old venues of some of the most historic sports teams in the history of sports referenced. Unfortunately, we don’t have their same history to trump the lack of amenities that fans expect. There’s a huge difference between those programs and ours.

Weird logic here, as if we are getting an upgrade because we lack tradition?  Do people walk around programs that lack tradition and think, “you know what this lack of tradition needs? Amenities.”

History and tradition didn’t offset anything in their case, and don’t have to. They just didn’t feel the need to touch their home. Maybe it’s a generational thing, but people used to think “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

it’ll probably get done though. The facilities race is real, and we are a part of it.

[UNTcrazy727]

We get over 8K at a game for the second time since 1980 and people really think a new 7-8K arena would be too small? lol okay...

And keep in mind, to get 8K the athletic department had to literally give away tickets.

Based on the few times I've heard Wren talk about a new arena, its a matter of when it will be built, not if. This is a good thing. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by UNTcrazy727
attendance correction

[Clinetort]

2 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

We get over 8K at a game for the first time since 1980 and people really think a new 7-8K arena would be too small? lol okay...

And keep in mind, to get 8K the athletic department had to literally give away tickets.

Based on the few times I've heard Wren talk about a new arena, its a matter of when it will be built, not if. This is a good thing. 

I think that if Wren prioritizes a new arena over adding baseball then there needs to be massive pushback.  In my opinion that would be misallocation of funds.  North Texas needs baseball to grow up as an athletic department.  Delaying baseball so that Wren can build his resume with a new arena is ridiculous.  Remember, Wren and his minions will leave and move on to other programs.  It's up to us to advocate for what we want.  We need baseball, it's time for pushback.

 

[CMJ]

We got over 8k at a game three years ago. 

 

Lets say, by some chance, we make the Sweet 16 this year.  Or the heavens up and we go on a George Mason/Butler/VCU type run to the Final Four.  I'd be surprised if we didn't get a few crowds over 8K next season.  And if we didn't, then shame on us for not appreciating it.  

[MCMLXXX]

10 hours ago, Glory to the Green said:

The SP is fine. We had 8K+ last night. In comparison, College GameDay At Baylor had 10K+. Just keep winning! GMG!

 

Baylor is building a new $185 million Basketball Arena that will seat 7000.

 https://www2.baylor.edu/baylorproud/2022/01/foster-pavilion-to-give-baylor-basketball-programs-a-new-riverfront-home/

[UNTcrazy727]

16 minutes ago, CMJ said:

We got over 8k at a game three years ago. 

 

Lets say, by some chance, we make the Sweet 16 this year.  Or the heavens up and we go on a George Mason/Butler/VCU type run to the Final Four.  I'd be surprised if we didn't get a few crowds over 8K next season.  And if we didn't, then shame on us for not appreciating it.  

What game was that? Only big crowd I can think of was the CBI Championship and attendance was only 6.2K. 

[ColoradoEagle]

8 minutes ago, MCMLXXX said:

Baylor is building a new $185 million Basketball Arena that will seat 7000.

 https://www2.baylor.edu/baylorproud/2022/01/foster-pavilion-to-give-baylor-basketball-programs-a-new-riverfront-home/

 

[CMJ]

5 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

What game was that? Only big crowd I can think of was the CBI Championship and attendance was only 6.2K. 

WKU in 2019.

 

https://dentonrc.com/sports/mens-basketball-western-kentucky-clamps-down-on-unt-defensively-wins-key-c-usa-game/article_6dce64f3-6e6b-5ab8-aed1-7e21234e88f8.html

[GMG_Dallas]

7 minutes ago, UNTcrazy727 said:

We get over 8K at a game for the first time since 1980 and people really think a new 7-8K arena would be too small? lol okay...

And keep in mind, to get 8K the athletic department had to literally give away tickets.

Based on the few times I've heard Wren talk about a new arena, its a matter of when it will be built, not if. This is a good thing. 

It's not about where we've been, it's about where we hope to go. They had to give out tickets but that doesn't mean the crowd wouldn't have been good regardless and there's no telling if future crowds won't be better than what they have been as a result of sustained success.

I'm maybe too optimistic. Problem is, this isn't an open air football stadium where you can build up to add seats or add a new wing. If you build too small, you're stuck with an undersized building for decades to come.

I personally think they should do renovations without getting too crazy. If you can add suites without losing too many seats, go ahead. Add better court-side seating. Maybe a true UNT store for gear and better concession stands. Renovate the locker rooms and do what needs to be done for the players/media experience. No need for beer gardens and the such.