Wren’s Decision Process

[Hookset]

4-8 in 2019 was bad.

4-6 in 2020, is Wren counting that season against Seth?

We constantly ran out players on both sides of the ball that clearly weren’t ready to play due to testing positive for Covid19 or contact tracing. Other programs cancelled games when this happened. We started a backup fullback at linebacker for 2 games.

Is Wren and Seth counting last season like it was just a “spring training” and was just being used for training and development for young players?

If the team gets to 5 wins, does that show enough progress for Wren to keep Seth? Last season changes were made (DC and some assistant coaches) and are helping.
Brought in a potential improvement at QB that so far has been a bust. Injuries to receivers aren’t helping a below average QB look better.

I think Wren is going to give Seth another year. 

[Hookset]

I guess my only point for the post is to soften the blow for all the passionate posters that are demanding Seth be fired after every game.

It probably won’t happen…

Edited November 1, 2021 by Hookset

[southsideguy]

I think you have to look past last season, we haven't really beat anyone good since SL arrival.  We won 9 games but get blown out in the bowl games.    I think he has run his course here.  Five win season is nothing to get excited about and one of those wins was against is more of scrimmage to start the season.  Besides I doubt we get to five.  

[dml7007]

I think Wren is doing the correct thing.  He letting the season play out.  Nothing is gained by letting seth go now.  He not going to hire someone prior to the first week in December.  I think if we win 5-6 games (requires no more than one loss remaining) there is a chance he is back, and probably must show even more improvement the next season.   Lose some of these games we should win probably gone, and Wren may already be talking to coaches/Agents through back channels.

[TheColonyEagle]

I can see your point….and Littrell may run the table or end up with 5 wins, who knows. I might agree with you if it weren’t HOW he has gotten beaten. He had a tough first half schedule for sure but he wasn’t even competitive in those games. And it’s not a fluke, he plays good teams, not only does he lose. He gets blown out. EVERY TIME. It’s been a consistent theme for 5+ years. 
 

It’s past time for a new coach 

[97and03]

SoMiss and FIU are bad teams (so are we) so we have a good chance even if on the road. Not sure where the fifth win might come from. 

[MeanGreenTexan]

6 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

SoMiss and FIU are bad teams (so are we) so we have a good chance even if on the road. Not sure where the fifth win might come from. 

A deflated UTEP team realizing that despite racing out to a 6-1 start, all the teams they beat are bad, and they're going to be left out of the conference shuffling because no one believes in them.

If NT can beat Rice, we can beat SoMiss, UTEP & FIU.

We then go into the UTSA game on a 4 game win streak with people ignorantly saying Littrell is earning an opportunity to go at it again next season (maybe even with some false hope we'll win the game), only to get smacked down worse than the UAB game because UTSA doesn't play around when it comes to UNT.

If for some reason, the UTSA game is somewhat close, Baker CANNOT let it give him pause.   

Littrell must be gone the very next day.

 

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

14 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I can see your point….and Littrell may run the table or end up with 5 wins, who knows. I might agree with you if it weren’t HOW he has gotten beaten. He had a tough first half schedule for sure but he wasn’t even competitive in those games. And it’s not a fluke, he plays good teams, not only does he lose. He gets blown out. EVERY TIME. It’s been a consistent theme for 5+ years. 
 

It’s past time for a new coach 

 

I wish I could like this more than once. This is exactly what gets me. The lack of discipline, the blown assignments, the vanilla play calling. All indicative of poor coaching. His record against teams with a winning record is atrocious. We've regressed significantly in the 6 years he's been here.  He's clearly not the coach of the future so why keep giving him second chances?

[Hookset]

19 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I can see your point….and Littrell may run the table or end up with 5 wins, who knows. I might agree with you if it weren’t HOW he has gotten beaten. He had a tough first half schedule for sure but he wasn’t even competitive in those games. And it’s not a fluke, he plays good teams, not only does he lose. He gets blown out. EVERY TIME. It’s been a consistent theme for 5+ years. 
 

It’s past time for a new coach 

I do agree with your point about how we lose. So many blow outs. 
We have won some close games. But usually lose huge to teams.

[Wag Tag]

36 minutes ago, Hookset said:

4-8 in 2019 was bad.

4-6 in 2020, is Wren counting that season against Seth?

We constantly ran out players on both sides of the ball that clearly weren’t ready to play due to testing positive for Covid19 or contact tracing. Other programs cancelled games when this happened. We started a backup fullback at linebacker for 2 games.

Is Wren and Seth counting last season like it was just a “spring training” and was just being used for training and development for young players?

If the team gets to 5 wins, does that show enough progress for Wren to keep Seth? Last season changes were made (DC and some assistant coaches) and are helping.
Brought in a potential improvement at QB that so far has been a bust. Injuries to receivers aren’t helping a below average QB look better.

I think Wren is going to give Seth another year. 

Maybe more important than his win loss record is hiring somebody that will energize  Alumni Donations. The AAC will do that and hiring a coach with street creds will really add $$$ to the donation pool. Unless he wins out and we go bowling I don't see any chance of him staying. We have to keep  positive momentum.

[TheReal_jayD]

58 minutes ago, Hookset said:

4-8 in 2019 was bad.

4-6 in 2020, is Wren counting that season against Seth?

We constantly ran out players on both sides of the ball that clearly weren’t ready to play due to testing positive for Covid19 or contact tracing. Other programs cancelled games when this happened. We started a backup fullback at linebacker for 2 games.

Is Wren and Seth counting last season like it was just a “spring training” and was just being used for training and development for young players?

If the team gets to 5 wins, does that show enough progress for Wren to keep Seth? Last season changes were made (DC and some assistant coaches) and are helping.
Brought in a potential improvement at QB that so far has been a bust. Injuries to receivers aren’t helping a below average QB look better.

I think Wren is going to give Seth another year. 

My problem is we are in Year 6 of Seth tenure.... If depth is a problem at this point.. you have other problems..

[UNTLifer]

Looking back, the real sign of how Littrell runs the team was the blowout at FAU where the team took it as a Florida vacation and the coaches wives were posting stuff all over social media.  Poorly handled and the program is a reflection of that lack of focus.  Time to move on, win out or not.

[MrAlien]

I thought this was a 3 win team coming into the season, so I do not necessarily see him getting sacked even if he only wins 3... To my knowledge there are not a lot of proven coaches lining up for the UNT job, so what are the realistic options to replace SL?  Every time a coaches name gets brought up on the forums, it seems to get shot down immediately... they say the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence, but is there even grass on the other side of this?   

[Mean Green Matt]

I’m not saying this would happen, but if Seth somehow did run the table, including a win over UTSA and then the bowl game, he would obviously be kept on for next year. Are we excited or do we feel like the blip of success is delaying the inevitable? 

[p_phelps]

1 minute ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I’m not saying this would happen, but if Seth somehow did run the table, including a win over UTSA and then the bowl game, he would obviously be kept on for next year. Are we excited or do we feel like the blip of success is delaying the inevitable? 

Really no reason to think it's even possible.  We still look inept on offense. 

[BillySee58]

36 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

A deflated UTEP team realizing that despite racing out to a 6-1 start, all the teams they beat are bad, and they're going to be left out of the conference shuffling because no one believes in them.

If NT can beat Rice, we can beat SoMiss, UTEP & FIU.

We then go into the UTSA game on a 4 game win streak with people ignorantly saying Littrell is earning an opportunity to go at it again next season (maybe even with some false hope we'll win the game), only to get smacked down worse than the UAB game because UTSA doesn't play around when it comes to UNT.

If for some reason, the UTSA game is somewhat close, Baker CANNOT let it give him pause.   

Littrell must be gone the very next day.

 

Yeah I think this is all very likely the situation we may face. If we played UTEP at home this week they’d maybe be favored by 3-5 points. Which is pretty much a toss up in college football. Also, have to wonder if there’s a psychological edge from beating them in Apogee each of the past two seasons.

[TheColonyEagle]

2 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I’m not saying this would happen, but if Seth somehow did run the table, including a win over UTSA and then the bowl game, he would obviously be kept on for next year. Are we excited or do we feel like the blip of success is delaying the inevitable? 

It would not do one thing to energize the fan base. If anything, it would maybe prove to Wren Baker that "hey we do have a good foundation of talent here that is coming together....this will do great things to recruit our next HC for 2022.

[Mean Green Matt]

1 minute ago, TheColonyEagle said:

It would not do one thing to energize the fan base. If anything, it would maybe prove to Wren Baker that "hey we do have a good foundation of talent here that is coming together....this will do great things to recruit our next HC for 2022.

(Acknowledging how unlikely this is) There is no way Seth gets fired after 7-6 and a win over a ranked team. 

[ColoradoEagle]

11 minutes ago, MrAlien said:

To my knowledge there are not a lot of proven coaches lining up for the UNT job

This was true at one point in time. When it was an underfunded athletic department, competing in the Sun Belt, playing games at Fouts Field. 

Today, they'd be earning one of the highest salaries in G5, playing in a brand new stadium and IPF, in a fully funded athletic department, and in the top G5 conference. Also, living next to two of the biggest cities in the country, and in Texas, certainly doesn't hurt.

There will be plenty of people lining up for this job.

[TheColonyEagle]

Just now, Mean Green Matt said:

(Acknowledging how unlikely this is) There is no way Seth gets fired after 7-6 and a win over a ranked team. 

Unfortunately I agree with you.

In my mind, as of November 1, 2021, there is NOTHING Seth Littrell should be able to do to save his job. Six years is long enough. 

[TheReal_jayD]

6 minutes ago, MrAlien said:

To my knowledge there are not a lot of proven coaches lining up for the UNT job, 

This is false

7 minutes ago, MrAlien said:

 Every time a coaches name gets brought up on the forums, it seems to get shot down immediately... 

Any thing short of Nick Saban will be a let down for some on this board

[BillySee58]

3 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

I’m not saying this would happen, but if Seth somehow did run the table, including a win over UTSA and then the bowl game, he would obviously be kept on for next year. Are we excited or do we feel like the blip of success is delaying the inevitable? 

I think that’s on Baker to evaluate the things behind the scenes. Is Littrell’s message really getting through to his team? Is there real tangible development on the roster or are we just mostly beating teams that are bad by FBS standards? Is the fire still there to get us back at or above where we were in 2017/2018?

We can win out and Wren can still have unfavorable conclusions towards those questions on Littrell. I’ve said this before, but the good thing about getting into the AAC now is that buys us some time. We got a seat in this game of musical chairs, whether Littrell is here next year or not. The urgency level has fallen off.

If Littrell somehow gets to a bowl game, keeping him for next season still allows favorable options, as long as you raise the bar again for next season. If you do keep Littrell for 2022, the bar for staying in 2023 isn’t another 6-win seasons. It’s be a legitimate CUSA West contender or have a new coach heading into the AAC in 2023.

[UNT Texas Hooligan]

23 minutes ago, MrAlien said:

I thought this was a 3 win team coming into the season, so I do not necessarily see him getting sacked even if he only wins 3... To my knowledge there are not a lot of proven coaches lining up for the UNT job, so what are the realistic options to replace SL?  Every time a coaches name gets brought up on the forums, it seems to get shot down immediately... they say the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence, but is there even grass on the other side of this?   

Expecting a team to only get 3 wins in the 6th year of a head coach should be the biggest reason he should be fired. You can only blame and change out your coordinators for so long before the real problem becomes apparent. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by UNT Texas Hooligan

[Professor Lambeau]

I hope I am in the minority on how I feel. I feel I have been gut punched multiple times. UTSA has undefeated football team and ranked. They just made a BIG time move to keep their coach with a huge financial investment in the future with him. While those things are happening, UNT has two wins. We debate if UNT has the monies to buy SL out, debate if he will be fired, debate who the next coach might be (assuming there are monies and he is fired). It's emotionally exhausting. And in some sick sorta way, it was the WIN at Rice that solidified my opinion that he should be fired. The lack of creativity in play calling, the penalties (good lord the penalties!), and all the other crap that has been consistent with SL as head coach.

[MeanGreen4Life1998]

If SL is retained for another season then its gonna get even worse for the program. This team might beat Southern Miss but but its very possible we also lose and we will not beat UTEP and will get killed by UTSA. We’re looking at a 3-9 season and a 3rd straight losing season which is unacceptable. He shouldn’t get a pass for the 2020 season with what hes paid and the resources he has at his disposal. We have never really beaten good teams and since the 2019 season we have routinely been blown out by good teams.

Littrell needs to be fired as soon as the season ends. You gotta make a change from him. Baker really needs to simply evaluate the program and what little has been done in terms of player development, discipline and overall performance since Littrell has arrived.