Who would be your UNT all time starting 5?

[Tom McKrackin]

Interesting question.

for me:

PG - Javion Hamlet

SG - Tristan Thompson

SG - Chris Davis

PF - Tony Mitchell

Post - Ronnie Morgan or Shawnson Johnson

 

[outoftown]

No offense to Tony Mitchell, but no. Great talent, never managed to put those horse powers on the floor. Talent don't matter if you don't do much with it. Yes he had ok points averages... but that was more a sign of how badly coached that team was.

I am not an expert on several of the other players, but best i can judge that seems ok.

Edited October 29, 2021 by outoftown

[Shark 64]

9 hours ago, Tom McKrackin said:

Interesting question.

for me:

PG - Javion Hamlet

SG - Tristan Thompson

SG - Chris Davis

PF - Tony Mitchell

Post - Ronnie Morgan or Shawnson Johnson

 

You have to have Ken Lyons and Joe Hamilton on that list. Joe played in the ABA for several years and Lyons was drafted by the 76'ers and made it till the final cut. Probably several more "old timers" that aren't on the list. 

[GrandGreen]

Joe Hamilton

Chris Davis 

Kenneth Lyons

Tristan Thompson

Javion Hamlet

Grant McCasland - HC

 

Bench:

John Horrocks (best 7 footer)

Crest Whitaker

Ronnie Morgan

Al Shumate 

Fred Mitchell

Melvin Davis

Weasel Johnson

George King

Terry Bailey

Dan Spika - asst coach

Bill Blakeley - asst coach

Billy Tubbs - asst coach (best recruiter ever?)

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by GrandGreen

[UNTLifer]

Starters:

Joe Hamilton

Chris Davis

Kenneth Lyons

Fred Mitchell

Tony Worrell

 

Bench:

Javion Hamlet

Walter "Weasel" Johnson

Tristan Thompson

Josh White

Crest Whitaker

Jesse Ratliff

Ronnie Morgan

Melvin Davis

[Stix]

Pat Hicks has to be added to the bench.

[Shark 64]

Delante Taylor was a beast as well. To bad they didn't have the 3 point shot for some of the old timers!

[greenminer]

7 hours ago, outoftown said:

No offense to Tony Mitchell, but no. Great talent, never managed to put those horse powers on the floor. Talent don't matter if you don't do much with it. Yes he had ok points averages... but that was more a sign of how badly coached that team was.

I am not an expert on several of the other players, but best i can judge that seems ok.

No matter what you think about Mitchell's motor, IMO his defensive presence alone makes him a lock for our all-time teams.

[MeanGreenTexan]

I feel like those of you including Joe Hamilton (doesn't show up on any of the top 10 stats leader lists in North Texas Records:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Texas_Mean_Green_men's_basketball_statistical_leaders)

...but not including Tony Mitchell are a little jaded.   Both were phenomenal talents during their time here.  I feel like Hamilton gets credit for making the jump to the ABA, but Mitchell doesn't for getting drafted to the NBA.  Why?

Also, any list not containing both Chris Davis and Kenny Lyons is like having a list of NT football greats without Joe Greene & Abner Haynes.

Man, Javion makes the PG spot cloudy.  We've had a really nice run of PGs over the past decade-&-a-half, with Josh White, Chris Jones, Ryan Woolridge & Javion Hamlet, not to mention Hamilton, Weasel & other ballers from the past.

I feel like Jordan Williams doesn't get enough love.

Give me:
HC: Grant McCasland.    NT's history is full of some really, really, good guards.   McCasland's offense would wreck with these guys.
AsstCoaches:  Bill Blakely & Johnny Jones
Starting 5:
PG: Ryan Woolridge - I don't know that we had a better distributor/ball manager since I've been watching.  If we're making an "All Time" team, I want a guy who makes good decisions & can get the ball to the scorers.
G: Chris Davis - Buckets on buckets.   Just give him the ball & clear out.  
G/F: Jesse Ratliff - Never saw him play, but he's all over the statbook for scoring & rebounding.
F: Tony Mitchell - All time blocks leader, and there's not a more gifted athlete on the floor.
F: Kenny Lyons - Feed him low and let him go to work.  And he's gonna grab you plenty of boards too.

Bench:
Javion Hamlet  -  Screen & roll game with him & Tony Mitchell would be very fun to watch!
Josh White
Weasel Johnson
Joe Hamilton
Fred Mitchell
Tristan Thompson
Jordan Williams
Tony Worrell
Ken Williams
George Odufuwa
 

 

 

[greenminer]

@MeanGreenTexan didn't Chris Jones play the 2?

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, greenminer said:

@MeanGreenTexan didn't Chris Jones play the 2?

I'm pretty sure he brought the ball up the floor mostly.   When he wasn't, it was Alzee Williams.

[GrandGreen]

8 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I feel like those of you including Joe Hamilton (doesn't show up on any of the top 10 stats leader lists in North Texas Records:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Texas_Mean_Green_men's_basketball_statistical_leaders)

...but not including Tony Mitchell are a little jaded.   Both were phenomenal talents during their time here.  I feel like Hamilton gets credit for making the jump to the ABA, but Mitchell doesn't for getting drafted to the NBA.  Why?

Also, any list not containing both Chris Davis and Kenny Lyons is like having a list of NT football greats without Joe Greene & Abner Haynes.

Man, Javion makes the PG spot cloudy.  We've had a really nice run of PGs over the past decade-&-a-half, with Josh White, Chris Jones, Ryan Woolridge & Javion Hamlet, not to mention Hamilton, Weasel & other ballers from the past.

I feel like Jordan Williams doesn't get enough love.

Give me:
HC: Grant McCasland.    NT's history is full of some really, really, good guards.   McCasland's offense would wreck with these guys.
AsstCoaches:  Bill Blakely & Johnny Jones
Starting 5:
PG: Ryan Woolridge - I don't know that we had a better distributor/ball manager since I've been watching.  If we're making an "All Time" team, I want a guy who makes good decisions & can get the ball to the scorers.
G: Chris Davis - Buckets on buckets.   Just give him the ball & clear out.  
G/F: Jesse Ratliff - Never saw him play, but he's all over the statbook for scoring & rebounding.
F: Tony Mitchell - All time blocks leader, and there's not a more gifted athlete on the floor.
F: Kenny Lyons - Feed him low and let him go to work.  And he's gonna grab you plenty of boards too.

Bench:
Javion Hamlet  -  Screen & roll game with him & Tony Mitchell would be very fun to watch!
Josh White
Weasel Johnson
Joe Hamilton
Fred Mitchell
Tristan Thompson
Jordan Williams
Tony Worrell
Ken Williams
George Odufuwa
 

 

 

Comparing Tony Mitchell and Joe Hamilton and it isn't even remotely close.

Joe Hamilton was a great leader and if the 3 pointer had existed than would have probably averaged 3 or 4 more a game.  Most of his shots were that far.  Another thing to consider, Hamilton played in arguably the best basketball conference in the country at the time, the MVC.  

Tony Mitchell was probably the greatest basketball athlete ever at NT.  However, he had a lot of issues that kept him from true greatness.  Also while Woolridge was great and probably better defensively; he was not close to Hamilton on the offensive end.  

 

 

[MeanGreenTexan]

28 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Comparing Tony Mitchell and Joe Hamilton and it isn't even remotely close.

Joe Hamilton was a great leader and if the 3 pointer had existed than would have probably averaged 3 or 4 more a game.  Most of his shots were that far.  Another thing to consider, Hamilton played in arguably the best basketball conference in the country at the time, the MVC.  

Tony Mitchell was probably the greatest basketball athlete ever at NT.  However, he had a lot of issues that kept him from true greatness.  Also while Woolridge was great and probably better defensively; he was not close to Hamilton on the offensive end.  

 

 

Honestly,
I'd have to defer to you old guys on Hamilton.    I don't know of any film on him anywhere.  If anyone has any footage of him playing, I'd love to see it!

As for starting Wooly over Hamilton, we wouldn't really need him to score.   It sounds like Hamilton is more like Javion (looking to be the offense himself).   If we weren't talking about an All Time team with the likes of Chris Davis and Kenny Lyons in the starting lineup with Wooly, I might be more inclined to put Javion or Hamilton in.  Woolridge is 2nd all-time in assists!
As it is, I want a guy who can facilitate in McCasland's offense.  Not necessarily a guy who scores a bunch.

[GrandGreen]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Honestly,
I'd have to defer to you old guys on Hamilton.    I don't know of any film on him anywhere.  If anyone has any footage of him playing, I'd love to see it!

As for starting Wooly over Hamilton, we wouldn't really need him to score.   It sounds like Hamilton is more like Javion (looking to be the offense himself).   If we weren't talking about an All Time team with the likes of Chris Davis and Kenny Lyons in the starting lineup with Wooly, I might be more inclined to put Javion or Hamilton in.  Woolridge is 2nd all-time in assists!
As it is, I want a guy who can facilitate in McCasland's offense.  Not necessarily a guy who scores a bunch.

Hamilton's stat line in two years at NT:

21.4 pts, .439 shooting %. 3.9 rbs

This against the best teams in the NCAA

Woolridge stats at NT

9.6 pts 4.9 rbs 3.2 assts

Note I don't think assists were an official stat back in Hamilton's day, but my guess he had more than 3 per game.  Hamilton's teams scored about 20 more a game than what McCasland's defense first teams do.  

Not sure why you think any pg should not be an offensive threat, that makes assists easier to get as the defense has to focus on the pg. 

 

[greenminer]

I want to know more about Jesse Ratliff.  Did anyone here get to see him play? Please describe his game.

[UNTLifer]

1 hour ago, greenminer said:

I want to know more about Jesse Ratliff.  Did anyone here get to see him play? Please describe his game.

I loved watching him play.  Could jump out of the gym, great slasher and could knock down jumpers when needed.  

[GrandGreen]

9 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Joe Hamilton

Chris Davis 

Kenneth Lyons

Tristan Thompson

Javion Hamlet

Grant McCasland - HC

 

Bench:

John Horrocks (best 7 footer)

Crest Whitaker

Ronnie Morgan

Al Shumate 

Fred Mitchell

Melvin Davis

Weasel Johnson

George King

Terry Bailey

Dan Spika - asst coach

Bill Blakeley - asst coach

Billy Tubbs - asst coach (best recruiter ever?)

 

 

Forgot the only player that could have beaten Tony Mitchell on a pure athletic basis.   Bobby Iverson, a legit high school All American recruited by Robbins and Tubbs.  

[Cooley]

My Fab Five back in 2003. (Reposted about ever 2 years on here) Obviously, it’s needs updating where I would include Shawnson Johnson, Jordan Williams, Ryan Woolridge, Chris Davis and a few others to round out my bench. I’m not changing my top 5 though. (Only went back to 1975) Listed folks I have seen and followed. I’m not a stat guy, which I feel can be very misleading anytime you compare players/teams from different eras. 

[UNTLifer]

7 hours ago, Cooley said:

My Fab Five back in 2003. (Reposted about ever 2 years on here) Obviously, it’s needs updating where I would include Shawnson Johnson, Jordan Williams, Ryan Woolridge, Chris Davis and a few others to round out my bench. I’m not changing my top 5 though. (Only went back to 1975) Listed folks I have seen and followed. I’m not a stat guy, which I feel can be very misleading anytime you compare players/teams from different eras. 

These are great lists and reminded me of some players I had forgotten about.  You posters asking about our basketball history, at least since '75, should look no further than @Cooley  

[Andrew]

Ryan Woolridge, Calvin Watson, Chris Davis, Jordan Williams, and Tony Mitchell.