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I've been following UNT football for a loooong time.  I watched us lose a competitive game to the Pony Express in Texas Stadium.  I lobbied UNT classmates about why we should approve the vote the move football from D-2 back to D-1.  "Don't you want to see Notre Dame or Penn State play us in Denton?" (Oh how naive I was back then.)

I was listening to the live broadcast of the Baylor game when George Dunham asked, "Do you believe in the Mean Green??" I was in Lubbock in '97 and '99 when we beat Texas Tech.  I recall how proud I was when friends would ask, "Didn't Erric Pegram go to North Texas?"  I was there when Dickey's team donned those awful looking black shirts and I was there when McCarney's team shit the bed against Portland State.  I watched Brewer's awesome punt return in the Arkansas game a few years ago (family commitment kept from witnessing that one in person).

I'm sure there are a few more, but those are the highlights (and lowlights) that immediately come to mind for me.  4+ decades of following UNT football and that's all I've got. 

I was once a die-hard, enthusiastic Mean Green supporter and took my family to the game every weekend.  I knew our football schedule by memory.  Many years of disappointment have taken its toll on me and stolen all my excitement for UNT football.  Season tickets are something I no longer even contemplate buying.  Instead I've immersed myself in my kids' sports - I coach them and I can control how good the teams are.  When we lose, I know how to fix things.  I know how to get better.  We win and we win a LOT (I'm a competitive SOB).  Oh, I'll still check the UNT score, but it may not be until mid-week or later.  Friends will ask, "Who does UNT play this week?"  I have no idea and will have to check my phone for the schedule.  When we make some spare bowl game it doesn't really do anything to excite me.  A lot of teams make spare bowl games these days.  No big deal really.

Why did I just share all of that???  Why??  Because I'm just one of thousands of disenfranchised UNT football fans that have found better, much more fulfilling things to do with their time.  We are a sleeping giant, right?  I've heard on this board many times.  Hell, I've even said it myself. 

What will it take to ignite our fan base and is that even possible??  A top 25 ranking?? Top 10??  Undefeated season??  Will one season do it or will it take multiple seasons of success before the average UNT grad feels proud enough to say, "I went there!" and start attending games, buying merchandise and raising TV ratings?

What will it take to get Top 25 programs to play in Denton on a regular basis??  I fear nothing short of a P5 conference will result in getting home games against P5 programs.

What will it take to make top 100 Texas recruits want to play college football at UNT??  We will likely never compete with Texas, OU or A&M for top Texas recruits, but we should be able to compete with any other Texas school.  The school districts north of Dallas; Allen, Frisco, Plano, Denton have some of the top talent in the country every year.  Yet, we struggle to get even one of those players to play at UNT.

I ask all these questions as I watch undefeated UTSA, now ranked #24 in their 10th season of playing football.  Charlotte, in their 8th season, gets invited to the same conference as UNT.  UAB terminated their football program in 2014, and didn't play for 2+ seasons, yet in 2021 they also are invited to the same conference as UNT.  Liberty just started playing FBS football in 2019 and cracked the Top 25 in 2020.  I'm surprised they didn't get the nod over us for the AAC.

Why not UNT?  How does UNT fix things??  How does UNT get better?  What does the future hold?  Why is it so hard to have a successful football program?  We haven't been ranked since the 70s, will we go another 40+ years before we crack the Top 25?

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I didn’t know the score until I walked into the stadium. I didn’t want to see the score until I bought a ticket to see my friends inside. So  I lollygag around the house watching a tragic 9OT game at Penn state. I make it inside the stadium in the third quarter and am shocked we are winning. Just didn’t want to know we were getting blown out by 40 before the Apogee gate. Then it all dissipates. The warmth of a win is gone. Liberty roars back and does what I thought they would do, win easily. 
 

I remember those days too. Drives to NMSU to witness the miracle in the desert. The flat tire in the panhandle on the way tk Air Force - repair arrive by halftime - 2 wins on the plains over TTU. A drive to see my Mean Green battle Jake the snake under the lights in sun devil stadium. 
 

so many awesome memories and then this array trots out with Seth still on the sideline. I’m sorry but a job opening for head coach at UNT is the worst kept secret in college football. Why wren and Neil do you allow him to continue and Contribute to the driving of our program into the ground? Your work is not done. You got us into the AAC. But you are ignoring the most obvious thing that needs to be done. It’s sad.

Meanwhile utsa rolls on. Smu continues to position. Your inaction is quite the action and seems miles away from the teams I have followed from coast to coast.

gmg

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Bad hires have have a ripple effect. I don’t know how true this is anymore but I’ve heard we don’t have a great reputation with high school coaches. That’s more impactful than we’d like to hope. Your comment on new programs goes to my theory that no reputation is better than a bad reputation. We really need to make a good hire and ride that into the AAC. I tune out in bad seasons and just cherish the good ones. Probably the best way to stay sane. 

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I am s long suffering Denton native and UNT Alumni.  Not nearly as committed as your post suggest you were at one time but I did hold season tickets at Apogee for couple of seasons.  As the disappointment increased the number I purchase each year counted from 4 to zero.  The questions you posed are huge but I really don’t think it is all that hard to rectify each of them.  They weren’t even serious about Football until they started to the push to build Apogee.  So in my opinion they really weren’t trying until they hired Mac.  Hiring a first time coach at the FBS level to be Head Coach was a farce.   It was a legacy of them trying to do things on the cheap.   That is part of the reason Seth is still on the sidelines today.  The other part is the Covid outbreak.  I would hope had the Covid season never happened and they end that year with 5 wins or less he doesn’t coach the team at all in 2021.   RV was a severely flawed AD and the end of Dickey was handled without class.  

The Sun Belt run was great and if we had the stadium and facilities we have today back then we are having positive conversations here more often.  And maybe Dickey is about to retire or move up the FBS ranks as the winningest coach of Mean Green history.  

Seth has not won a big game here 0 for in bowl games and beaten to a pulp like he was clueless in the conference championship game.  That should have clued everyone in that he might be just a good coach at best not great.  Now it is in doubt that he is even a good coach. Highlighting the success of regional rivals and conference peers makes that glaring also.  Nine wins and losing bowl games should only get you extensions at programs that are regularly at the bottom of the conference; Kansas, Vanderbilt, Rice, and Kent State

Where we go from here is up if they hire the right coach.  All you have to do here is win and be 0.500 against the regional rivals and play them tough when you lose to them.  Throw in about 2 Conference Championships in period of 5 consecutive winning seasons and the program turns the corner in a permanent way.  (Dickey did not have that.).  You can win every season but you should be competent and not at the bottom of a G5 conference ever. 

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You SHOULD care more about your kids’ sports than North Texas. So what?

It’s a bad football season. Hope is just a new hire away. With a new, good coach and the transfer portal, next season this roster will look nothing like it does today. 

Our basketball program is fantastic and deserves support. I just bought season tickets to that for the first time ever.

Go Mean Green!

 

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I think we need to win consistently (9+ win seasons, competing for and winning championships and bowls) in the AAC for 4-5 years to achieve what I consider the first step: engage a full cycle of new grads/undergrads.  I have a completely unsubstantiated belief that this step will also engage about 10% of our local alumni such as you.  Those that long ago found other things to invest their time and heart into, could be brought back.

Then you continue that winning tradition for another 4-5 years and establish some real momentum.  Get another cycle of recent graduates, and I think we can engage even more disenfranchised alumni back into Apogee.

By then, there is another round of conference shuffling and the sky is the limit.

This is my dream lol.

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The UTSA coach had a very successful Texas high school coaching background. The SMU coach has done it with transfers and marketing. Somehow I don't think its rocket science to generate a profile as to the background needed by a coach to be successful in Denton . I have been supporting UNT football since 1961 but gave up my club seats this year. Some of it has to do with my age and concern for COVID but basically I am just tired of decades of horse shit football. Yes we had a few good seasons with Corky, Darrell , and Seth, but when you must reach back to the 70's to have something to hang your hat on you have an ongoing problem.

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10 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

As one of the few that has been a fan longer than you.   I see real hope for a variety of reasons:

NT has put the dollars into the program, second largest budget in CUSA:  A great indoor practice facility

I like NT's leadership in the President and AD

Apogee is a great venue

The move to the AAC should be very positive for every athletic program

42000 + students 

Located in one of the best areas for growth in the USA

The substantially improved NT academics are being recognized

 

What does what Liberty, UTSA, etc. have to do with NT   Might as well complain that La Tech, USM, MTSU, WKU are not going to the AAC, because all have as good or better athletic histories as NT.

If your top 25 programs you want to play in Denton are p5's, it is probably not going to happen.  Those programs seldom play in OC games away and they are certainly not likely to play a G5.

 

 

I agree whole heartedly with this. I was a freshman moving snow out of my spot on the bleachers at Fouts so I could watch Bobby Bowden's Florida State team squeak out a victory over the Mean Green. 

Something Grand didn't mention is the exponentially greater publicity and coverage of North Texas compared to the 70s, 80s, 90s or even the 00s. Being in a conference with other Texas teams is unbelievably important and helps us even beyond athletics. Before we were in CUSA, if you didn't live in DFW you had to do a Google search to find ANY information about North Texas. Now we get at least some mentions in every media market in Texas. 

 

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11 hours ago, gangrene said:

I've been following UNT football for a loooong time.  I watched us lose a competitive game to the Pony Express in Texas Stadium.  I lobbied UNT classmates about why we should approve the vote the move football from D-2 back to D-1.  "Don't you want to see Notre Dame or Penn State play us in Denton?" (Oh how naive I was back then.)

I was listening to the live broadcast of the Baylor game when George Dunham asked, "Do you believe in the Mean Green??" I was in Lubbock in '97 and '99 when we beat Texas Tech.  I recall how proud I was when friends would ask, "Didn't Erric Pegram go to North Texas?"  I was there when Dickey's team donned those awful looking black shirts and I was there when McCarney's team shit the bed against Portland State.  I watched Brewer's awesome punt return in the Arkansas game a few years ago (family commitment kept from witnessing that one in person).

I'm sure there are a few more, but those are the highlights (and lowlights) that immediately come to mind for me.  4+ decades of following UNT football and that's all I've got. 

I was once a die-hard, enthusiastic Mean Green supporter and took my family to the game every weekend.  I knew our football schedule by memory.  Many years of disappointment have taken its toll on me and stolen all my excitement for UNT football.  Season tickets are something I no longer even contemplate buying.  Instead I've immersed myself in my kids' sports - I coach them and I can control how good the teams are.  When we lose, I know how to fix things.  I know how to get better.  We win and we win a LOT (I'm a competitive SOB).  Oh, I'll still check the UNT score, but it may not be until mid-week or later.  Friends will ask, "Who does UNT play this week?"  I have no idea and will have to check my phone for the schedule.  When we make some spare bowl game it doesn't really do anything to excite me.  A lot of teams make spare bowl games these days.  No big deal really.

Why did I just share all of that???  Why??  Because I'm just one of thousands of disenfranchised UNT football fans that have found better, much more fulfilling things to do with their time.  We are a sleeping giant, right?  I've heard on this board many times.  Hell, I've even said it myself. 

What will it take to ignite our fan base and is that even possible??  A top 25 ranking?? Top 10??  Undefeated season??  Will one season do it or will it take multiple seasons of success before the average UNT grad feels proud enough to say, "I went there!" and start attending games, buying merchandise and raising TV ratings?

What will it take to get Top 25 programs to play in Denton on a regular basis??  I fear nothing short of a P5 conference will result in getting home games against P5 programs.

What will it take to make top 100 Texas recruits want to play college football at UNT??  We will likely never compete with Texas, OU or A&M for top Texas recruits, but we should be able to compete with any other Texas school.  The school districts north of Dallas; Allen, Frisco, Plano, Denton have some of the top talent in the country every year.  Yet, we struggle to get even one of those players to play at UNT.

I ask all these questions as I watch undefeated UTSA, now ranked #24 in their 10th season of playing football.  Charlotte, in their 8th season, gets invited to the same conference as UNT.  UAB terminated their football program in 2014, and didn't play for 2+ seasons, yet in 2021 they also are invited to the same conference as UNT.  Liberty just started playing FBS football in 2019 and cracked the Top 25 in 2020.  I'm surprised they didn't get the nod over us for the AAC.

Why not UNT?  How does UNT fix things??  How does UNT get better?  What does the future hold?  Why is it so hard to have a successful football program?  We haven't been ranked since the 70s, will we go another 40+ years before we crack the Top 25?

I think you may be beating yourself up a little bit. It clearly takes winning to spark interest. It doesn't have to be undefeated seasons either.  Just win more than you lose and be competitive in losses regardless of who we're playing. That will garner attention and get butts back into apogee. Can't have 3 year runs of losing seasons like we're currently in. That runs people off. Refuse to make changes then you lose more people, and the people that choose to hang around are apathetic. 

Win, be competitive. 

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Seth was a great hire and did great things for the program for 3 years and now it is time to move on. It is that simple. Wish him the best. Let the next guy try.

Todd Dodge was a bad hire.

Every time a new coach walks in it is a breath of fresh air. It wears off after a few years and then people start bitching about bad hires, and UNT starts hanging on thinking things will turn around. It most likely will not. Then people start wondering if it is a culture.

Our problem has been not being able/willing to pull a plug or let coaches go and try something new. Not letting Seth go to Kansas State wasn't a bad decision but it was, in hindsight, the wrong one.

Make it clear when a coach comes in: You have 2 seasons to get above 4 wins, or we have to move on. After you are above 4 wins: 4 wins or less will get you fired 100% of the time, every time. No question. Work that into the contract if you want to. Set a bar. When you hit below it - move on. Every time.

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27 minutes ago, MeanMag said:

Seth was a great hire and did great things for the program for 3 years and now it is time to move on. It is that simple. Wish him the best. Let the next guy try.

Todd Dodge was a bad hire.

Every time a new coach walks in it is a breath of fresh air. It wears off after a few years and then people start bitching about bad hires, and UNT starts hanging on thinking things will turn around. It most likely will not. Then people start wondering if it is a culture.

Our problem has been not being able/willing to pull a plug or let coaches go and try something new. Not letting Seth go to Kansas State wasn't a bad decision but it was, in hindsight, the wrong one.

Make it clear when a coach comes in: You have 2 seasons to get above 4 wins, or we have to move on. After you are above 4 wins: 4 wins or less will get you fired 100% of the time, every time. No question. Work that into the contract if you want to. Set a bar. When you hit below it - move on. Every time.

Who in their right mind would sign such a contract?  Too many variables that could effect a schedule and record out of that coach’s controls some times. 

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7 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Who in their right mind would sign such a contract?  Too many variables that could effect a schedule and record out of that coach’s controls some times. 

Your job as a coach is to win football games.  Nothing more, nothing less.  
 

My job is to address crime and disorder in the municipality where I am Police Chief.  The economy, unemployment, relative education levels of citizens, citizen carelessness and refusal to secure property, and even weather can effect crime…not a single one of them is acceptable as an excuse if the crime rate spikes and people can’t feel safe in their homes.  I adapt, or I am shown the door.  

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13 hours ago, gangrene said:

I've been following UNT football for a loooong time.  I watched us lose a competitive game to the Pony Express in Texas Stadium.  I lobbied UNT classmates about why we should approve the vote the move football from D-2 back to D-1.  "Don't you want to see Notre Dame or Penn State play us in Denton?" (Oh how naive I was back then.)

I was listening to the live broadcast of the Baylor game when George Dunham asked, "Do you believe in the Mean Green??" I was in Lubbock in '97 and '99 when we beat Texas Tech.  I recall how proud I was when friends would ask, "Didn't Erric Pegram go to North Texas?"  I was there when Dickey's team donned those awful looking black shirts and I was there when McCarney's team shit the bed against Portland State.  I watched Brewer's awesome punt return in the Arkansas game a few years ago (family commitment kept from witnessing that one in person).

I'm sure there are a few more, but those are the highlights (and lowlights) that immediately come to mind for me.  4+ decades of following UNT football and that's all I've got. 

I was once a die-hard, enthusiastic Mean Green supporter and took my family to the game every weekend.  I knew our football schedule by memory.  Many years of disappointment have taken its toll on me and stolen all my excitement for UNT football.  Season tickets are something I no longer even contemplate buying.  Instead I've immersed myself in my kids' sports - I coach them and I can control how good the teams are.  When we lose, I know how to fix things.  I know how to get better.  We win and we win a LOT (I'm a competitive SOB).  Oh, I'll still check the UNT score, but it may not be until mid-week or later.  Friends will ask, "Who does UNT play this week?"  I have no idea and will have to check my phone for the schedule.  When we make some spare bowl game it doesn't really do anything to excite me.  A lot of teams make spare bowl games these days.  No big deal really.

Why did I just share all of that???  Why??  Because I'm just one of thousands of disenfranchised UNT football fans that have found better, much more fulfilling things to do with their time.  We are a sleeping giant, right?  I've heard on this board many times.  Hell, I've even said it myself. 

What will it take to ignite our fan base and is that even possible??  A top 25 ranking?? Top 10??  Undefeated season??  Will one season do it or will it take multiple seasons of success before the average UNT grad feels proud enough to say, "I went there!" and start attending games, buying merchandise and raising TV ratings?

What will it take to get Top 25 programs to play in Denton on a regular basis??  I fear nothing short of a P5 conference will result in getting home games against P5 programs.

What will it take to make top 100 Texas recruits want to play college football at UNT??  We will likely never compete with Texas, OU or A&M for top Texas recruits, but we should be able to compete with any other Texas school.  The school districts north of Dallas; Allen, Frisco, Plano, Denton have some of the top talent in the country every year.  Yet, we struggle to get even one of those players to play at UNT.

I ask all these questions as I watch undefeated UTSA, now ranked #24 in their 10th season of playing football.  Charlotte, in their 8th season, gets invited to the same conference as UNT.  UAB terminated their football program in 2014, and didn't play for 2+ seasons, yet in 2021 they also are invited to the same conference as UNT.  Liberty just started playing FBS football in 2019 and cracked the Top 25 in 2020.  I'm surprised they didn't get the nod over us for the AAC.

Why not UNT?  How does UNT fix things??  How does UNT get better?  What does the future hold?  Why is it so hard to have a successful football program?  We haven't been ranked since the 70s, will we go another 40+ years before we crack the Top 25?

Good post but I disagree.  We just have had bad bad bad coaching hires.  Hire a good football coach and we will be a consistent top 25 year mark my words.

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1 hour ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

Who in their right mind would sign such a contract?  Too many variables that could effect a schedule and record out of that coach’s controls some times. 

A lot of coaches would take $1.3 million to $1.8 million a year to coach UNT, which is among the highest in G5.

Winning at least 5 games once in your first two seasons is not asking for the impossible.

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Whelp. Nothing lasts forever, granted I haven’t been a fan that long but I’ve followed North Texas since about 2000. I see the reason for pessimism and I see why people are hopeful. North Texas has to make a change at head coach, make the right hire and it changes everything and that can happen very quickly. The university just has to show they are financially committed in paying for a top coach in the future. They can’t go back to hiring a high school coach or past his prime assistant. I k ow easier said than done. 

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5 hours ago, rcade said:

A lot of coaches would take $1.3 million to $1.8 million a year to coach UNT, which is among the highest in G5.

Winning at least 5 games once in your first two seasons is not asking for the impossible.

No reason with the talent that is supposedly here a new coach could win 5 his first season. I know some people are saying we should win 9+ every year, and while that would be great nothing in the last 40 years shows we can do that. We should strive for 8+ wins a year and anything under 6 should be considered a failure. As far as a new coach, the better ones would probably not come here, or most places, with at least a 4 year deal. The next coach needs to be a proven winner. Pay him well and put incentives in to sweeten the deal, but leave enough to pay the assistants top G5 money also.

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