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What's Happening After Recruiting?


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I know it takes time for a football program to develop, but why are we going backwards when we seem to have solid recruiting classes each year?

  • 2018 - Ranked 8th in CUSA
  • 2019 - Ranked 4th in CUSA
  • 2020 - Ranked  2nd in CUSA (barely behind FAU for the #1 spot)
  • 2021 - Ranked 1st in CUSA

Shouldn't Mean Green Football be "best in class" at this point?  Or, at the very least, be in the conversation of conference championship contender every year?  We seem to be getting better and better players yet have worse and worse results. 

Some have told me that Dan McCarney got lucky with Dodge's recruits, and Seth got lucky with McCarney's recruits.  Is that the pattern (seems hard to believe)???   So, the next HC will have a 2-3 year run from Seth's recruits and then implode, too?  Frustrating!!!   

Oh well, I guess we'll be a basketball school instead.  GMG

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10 minutes ago, Philip Ferguson said:

I know it takes time for a football program to develop, but why are we going backwards when we seem to have solid recruiting classes each year?

  • 2018 - Ranked 8th in CUSA
  • 2019 - Ranked 4th in CUSA
  • 2020 - Ranked  2nd in CUSA (barely behind FAU for the #1 spot)
  • 2021 - Ranked 1st in CUSA

Shouldn't Mean Green Football be "best in class" at this point?  Or, at the very least, be in the conversation of conference championship contender every year?  We seem to be getting better and better players yet have worse and worse results. 

Some have told me that Dan McCarney got lucky with Dodge's recruits, and Seth got lucky with McCarney's recruits.  Is that the pattern (seems hard to believe)???   So, the next HC will have a 2-3 year run from Seth's recruits and then implode, too?  Frustrating!!!   

Oh well, I guess we'll be a basketball school instead.  GMG

I have felt the same way about recruiting and quite frankly I have come to decide that it is a scam at least at the lower P5 and G5 level.  I think these recruiting site are about pumping up the respective fan bases with hope for the future and in turn can charge hard earned money for "VIP" info and whatnot.  Bottomline:  there is no way in hell that this program has had the best recruiting classes in CUSA.  NO WAY! 

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Here’s what’s happening.

Players don’t have great relationships with coaches, and in general coaches just can’t develop the players because of lack of experience or just not good enough. Bennett is arguably the only coach that has developed some guys, and that might be a stretch. Bloesch comes to mind because guys like Gabe Blair and other younger guys on the OL are good, but maybe that was personal? Who knows.

I was talking about it the other day with one of our former coaches in 2010-14, and if you look at the 2016 coaching staff, almost every single one of them moved up a level because of how successful and talented they are at developing guys. Tashard Choice is a huge reason why Jeff Wilson was and is now so successful. I could go on and on.

My point is, Seth did this to himself with the hires. I know losing coaches that move up is tough, but this is (at some positions) 3rd and 4th set of coordinators in his 6th season.

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Littrell recruited terribly his first few years here and we are seeing the results of that on the field currently. 

Our classes were ranked at the bottom of the conference 3 straight years and now everyone is surprised that the product on the field is bottom of the conference too.  It's not like we are getting 5 star players, most players take 2-3 years to develop and find a role so starting next year we should expect to start seeing those highly ranked recruiting classes have a bigger impact.

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The last 2 classes were #1 in CUSA. That is still not very talented compared to other conferences. They are also true freshmen or redshirts. At our level those kids need time to develop. Unlike a P5 program where many of those freshmen can actually play and be productive.

Also many of the better recruits from 3-4 years ago are skill position players. Some have never gotten past the injury bug or have transferred. What’s the one position we haven’t recruited well for or been successful with in the transfer portal? It rhymes with quarterback. A great QB can make even average receivers look awesome. 
 

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1 hour ago, UNT18Grad said:

Littrell recruited terribly his first few years here and we are seeing the results of that on the field currently. 

Our classes were ranked at the bottom of the conference 3 straight years and now everyone is surprised that the product on the field is bottom of the conference too.  It's not like we are getting 5 star players, most players take 2-3 years to develop and find a role so starting next year we should expect to start seeing those highly ranked recruiting classes have a bigger impact.

The last 3 classes have been the best in conference.  Some of them are JRs/RS sophs, right?  We should be seeing them get meaningful playing time.

The excuses of SL's early recruiting don't have merit any longer.  This is all on his player development, roster management, and game-prep.

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If your Qb play sucks, it will make everybody look bad. Just look at some of the National Teams that are struggling. Turnovers and negative plays generated by that position are killers. We to hire a recognized Head Coach with QB development. Then hire a young recognized QB coach. 

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5 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Those 2 top classes are true/redshirt freshman. Hard to tell what those classes are going to be based on this season alone. They very well still could be the best class but we won’t know for another year or 2

So, is that the pattern?  SL is gone next year (maybe) and the new guy/gal inherits these better recruiting classes.  So, they look good early on but then collapse.  Rinse and repeat???  

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5 minutes ago, Philip Ferguson said:

So, is that the pattern?  SL is gone next year (maybe) and the new guy/gal inherits these better recruiting classes.  So, they look good early on but then collapse.  Rinse and repeat???  

Typically, yeah. Unless we make a good hire, but that's too early to tell. Would be a good thing to consider when looking for a new coach - someone who people like playing for.

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22 hours ago, greenminer said:

The last 3 classes have been the best in conference.  Some of them are JRs/RS sophs, right?  We should be seeing them get meaningful playing time.

The excuses of SL's early recruiting don't have merit any longer.  This is all on his player development, roster management, and game-prep.

And we are.. Oscar Adaway, Murphy twins, Deshawn Gaddie, Damon Ward, Kevin Wood, and Quinn Whitlock from the 2019 class all play big roles and coincidentally most of them were among the higher rated recruits in that class.  That's about 1/3 of starters we have on the field, and they all came from a class that was ranked 4th in conference.

2020 and 2021 classes obviously have had much less of an impact, but they are in the first and second year of playing CFB.  We can be mad at Littrell all we want, but it a fact it takes most players 2-3 years to be ready to make an impact. 

We have a team that is led by 3 terrible classes, 2016, 2017, 2018 are all still playing for us and they were 8th, 11th, and 8th in conference.  Add injuries to a team that already is young with no depth and this is what you get.  All of our junior and senior players are either starters or don't even sniff the field for the most part, just look at our depth chart we have a freshman or sophomore back up at 18 positions.

To be clear, this is not me defending Littrell.  He has his own issues, and as a coach everything falls on your shoulders and you're expected to overcome whatever circumstances you find yourself in.  But the lack of depth due to awful recruiting for 3 straight years isn't something we can just overlook.

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QB play in general, good or bad, makes a significant difference. SL did not recruit that position very well when MF was a SO and JR, clearly. 

As far as the 16, 17, 18 class "rankings", who's job is it to recruit? And there are serviceable, respectable programs within their conferences that recruit 8th among their conference.  Programs in that fold put a competitive group on the field many of years. 

The staff negligently dropped the ball on replacing MF and truthfully had THREE classes to find that replacement. Also, until this last class, defense had been completely ignored. 

These results should not be coming to you as a surprise.

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2 hours ago, UNT18Grad said:

And we are.. Oscar Adaway, Murphy twins, Deshawn Gaddie, Damon Ward, Kevin Wood, and Quinn Whitlock from the 2019 class all play big roles and coincidentally most of them were among the higher rated recruits in that class.  That's about 1/3 of starters we have on the field, and they all came from a class that was ranked 4th in conference.

2020 and 2021 classes obviously have had much less of an impact, but they are in the first and second year of playing CFB.  We can be mad at Littrell all we want, but it a fact it takes most players 2-3 years to be ready to make an impact. 

We have a team that is led by 3 terrible classes, 2016, 2017, 2018 are all still playing for us and they were 8th, 11th, and 8th in conference.  Add injuries to a team that already is young with no depth and this is what you get.  All of our junior and senior players are either starters or don't even sniff the field for the most part, just look at our depth chart we have a freshman or sophomore back up at 18 positions.

To be clear, this is not me defending Littrell.  He has his own issues, and as a coach everything falls on your shoulders and you're expected to overcome whatever circumstances you find yourself in.  But the lack of depth due to awful recruiting for 3 straight years isn't something we can just overlook.

That makes sense to me.  So, is the answer we just weather this season (and probably next) knowing that there's real hope down the road?  If so, does it make sense to change coaches or just stay the course???  

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20 minutes ago, Philip Ferguson said:

That makes sense to me.  So, is the answer we just weather this season (and probably next) knowing that there's real hope down the road?  If so, does it make sense to change coaches or just stay the course???  

Change. SL has no inspiration to give. He coaches with no fire in his belly. His hunger for success does not fit the UNT mold. I may be completely off on all of this, but body language and facial expressions carry a lot of weight. We, as human beings, do 80% of our communication non-verbally. His is putrid. 

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1 hour ago, Philip Ferguson said:

That makes sense to me.  So, is the answer we just weather this season (and probably next) knowing that there's real hope down the road?  If so, does it make sense to change coaches or just stay the course???  

In a world with no other factors Littrell is gone without a doubt. Every college program has hope down the road, everyone always feels the next season has potential even if it doesn't so we would not bring him back just for that reason.  And ultimately the reason we are in a bad spot now is because of his own recruiting at the beginning of his time here so the blame falls on him even if it's something he did years ago.

His large contract buyout is the only reason he would be able to stick around. My opinion is that he will definitely be around at the very least through this season, and then some serious discussion will have to occur about his future. Unless some random booster comes along with a willingness to help offset his contract buyout I just don't see how we could pay both his buyout and still pay for a decent new HC and staff.  We would essentially be paying 2 coaches next year and we already have one of the biggest contracts in all of the G5 schools to pay for, it just doesn't seem realistic.  Plus, I would rather not have to take a discount shopping approach to our new coach.

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On 10/16/2021 at 7:14 PM, Udomann said:

Recruiting no longer matters. You play the portal or you are behind in the game. It sucks, but that is our reality now

This. It is real unfortunate timing , but right the moment when SL figured out recruiting, high school recruiting begann mattering a LOT less, because of the new transfer rules and portal. seven years ago no1 spot would have been very meaningful, now it only matters if you can keep them around and supplement them with the right transfers (/if you are good at integrating your transfers). NT is currently very bad at those last parts, and this does not show in recruiting rankings.

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Look at these guys 

Bailey Zappe - WKU - Former HBU QB - 2nd in the nation in passing yards. No big offers out of high school

Jerreth Sterns - WKU - 2 star player from Waxahachie, TX. Leads the nation in receiving yards 

 

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