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From this point on every loss is on WB


p_phelps
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Seth has proven to be a bad HC. We've always been undisciplined, even when we were winning.  Now the teams quit on the staff. Embarrassing off the field things happening. Seth should be let go now and every game we play with him at the helm it's on Wren. Only reason I can think to keep him is just to lower the buyout. I hope we are on the search for the next guy.  Next time we have a chance to get a HC hired away I hope it happens. I'm so sick of firing after we become a dumpster fire

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8 minutes ago, p_phelps said:

Seth has proven to be a bad HC. We've always been undisciplined, even when we were winning.  Now the teams quit on the staff. Embarrassing off the field things happening. Seth should be let go now and every game we play with him at the helm it's on Wren. Only reason I can think to keep him is just to lower the buyout. I hope we are on the search for the next guy.  Next time we have a chance to get a HC hired away I hope it happens. I'm so sick of firing after we become a dumpster fire

Don’t let Neal off the hook. I am not sure the extension (especially the size of it) was all Wren’s call.  I think most smart AD’s at programs with resources to lure good head coaches aren’t rushing to extend a coach after just 2 winning seasons with no bowl wins or conference titles.  (And remember was before the transfer portal blew up so you couldn’t be scared then that half the stars on the team would try to go with him)

Edited by Mike Jackson
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29 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

I say there are a lot of losses over the past few season that could have been avoided had Wren dealt with this situation. Wren has a lot to answer for. It is time to fire people. At this point, there can be no other outcome.

I believe Wren will fire Seth when the time is right. However, getting our asses kicked in an empty stadium may accelerate things a bit. I hope we hire the Sam Houston coach soon so that recruiting isn't affected too much. As someone mentioned, the buyout for conference realignment might be the sticking point. Seth is not helping our cause and looks totally defeated on the sideline. This is a bad time to be sucking and we'll probably suffer for it for years to come.

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14 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

I believe Wren will fire Seth when the time is right. However, getting our asses kicked in an empty stadium may accelerate things a bit. I hope we hire the Sam Houston coach soon so that recruiting isn't affected too much. As someone mentioned, the buyout for conference realignment might be the sticking point. Seth is not helping our cause and looks totally defeated on the sideline. This is a bad time to be sucking and we'll probably suffer for it for years to come.

This is the first game I didn't watch in years.  I checked the score occasionally but until something is done I'm not dedicated anymore of my time to a program that's not willing to do what it takes. 

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24 minutes ago, Hunter Green said:

I believe Wren will fire Seth when the time is right. However, getting our asses kicked in an empty stadium may accelerate things a bit. I hope we hire the Sam Houston coach soon so that recruiting isn't affected too much. As someone mentioned, the buyout for conference realignment might be the sticking point. Seth is not helping our cause and looks totally defeated on the sideline. This is a bad time to be sucking and we'll probably suffer for it for years to come.

The time is right now. Last night actually. SETH HAS TO GO NOW! No more excuses. WREN NEEDS TO DO HIS JOB OR QUIT! Someone needs to step up and be a leader.

Edited by Side.Show.Joe
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4 minutes ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Wren let Benford play out then hit a grand slam with McCasland. I expect the same with the Seth situation. I'm not judging Wren based on whether or not he fires a coach mid-season.. 

And Benford's last season was a huge scandal too. Benford never should have coached that season.

Basketball is great, but this is Texas. Football is everything. I judge Wren on his failure to deal with this situation. Littrell needs to go. He cannot be allowed to step onto the sideline for even one more game. Wren needs to do his job. Leaders are supposed to lead. If Wren won't do his job, than he needs to go too.

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I'm going to disagree with most of y'all.  Seth needs to go but there's little to gain from doing it right now and a lot to loose.  If the environment of the team off the field is still positive and kids are still performing well in practice and in the classroom, then why change now?  You risk "losing" kids who have a strong connection with Seth and the school.  I see no reason to remove Seth unless things change off the field.  And if you think recruiting is tough now, it would be much tougher when you go months without a head coach.

Also, firing Seth now wouldn't help the search for a new coach.  Right now Wren can speak with agents and quietly do "background" work.  I believe Wren knows enough people in the game that he can get information without things becoming public.  No head coach we would want would publicly speak to us about coming here at this time. 

Unless things change toward the negative off the field, I wouldn't think of removing Seth until sometime in November or when the coaching search process cannot be kept out of the media any longer.  This time frame may tick off some hot headed boosters but it would benefit the kids, the team, and the school overall. 

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51 minutes ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Wren let Benford play out then hit a grand slam with McCasland. I expect the same with the Seth situation. I'm not judging Wren based on whether or not he fires a coach mid-season.. 

Rick screwed Wren with Benford and his mess. And I think everyone should be on the lookout in the coming week for some news.

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25 minutes ago, NorthTexan95 said:

I'm going to disagree with most of y'all.  Seth needs to go but there's little to gain from doing it right now and a lot to loose.  If the environment of the team off the field is still positive and kids are still performing well in practice and in the classroom, then why change now?  You risk "losing" kids who have a strong connection with Seth and the school.  I see no reason to remove Seth unless things change off the field.  And if you think recruiting is tough now, it would be much tougher when you go months without a head coach.

Also, firing Seth now wouldn't help the search for a new coach.  Right now Wren can speak with agents and quietly do "background" work.  I believe Wren knows enough people in the game that he can get information without things becoming public.  No head coach we would want would publicly speak to us about coming here at this time. 

Unless things change toward the negative off the field, I wouldn't think of removing Seth until sometime in November or when the coaching search process cannot be kept out of the media any longer.  This time frame may tick off some hot headed boosters but it would benefit the kids, the team, and the school overall. 

Everything is already negative, both on and off the field. There is nothing left to salvage from Littrell's program. If this does drag out into November, than Wren will continue to lose more support from the fan base. This has to end now.

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A few months ago we were worried about losing Wren to Missouri.   Now, some want him to be fired over the Seth situation ?    In the past, people complained because the school would not spend enough money on FB.   Now, boosters are stepping up and the school is spending the money.   Wren probably extended Seth because he was a hot coach at the time and people were worried about us losing him.    The FB team was improving until last season.   Recruiting had really improved.    How was Wren to know that things would go south like this when he extended Seth ?   When you have a hot coaching name at this level, you do all you can to try and keep him.

Yes, in hindsight it all backfired and the team is at rock bottom.    Wren is in a really difficult position right now.  He probably thought that he had until the end of the season to make a decision on Seth, before the fans really rebelled.    But, the last few games have expedited the situation.   And, last night performance was beyond awful.  I mean, there are not enough words to even describe it.

I don't want to see Seth coach another game after last night.   But, give Wren some time to make a logical decision and not one ruled by pure emotion.   And for God's sake, please stop calling for his head or Neil's.   I am sure they were probably more embarrassed last night then we were.    Wren is the best AD this school as ever had when looking at the big picture.     He will come through when he has support from all the required parties (probably including the boosters).



  

Edited by akriesman
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5 minutes ago, akriesman said:

A few months ago we were worried about losing Wren to Missouri.

You should have seen him pre-game last week in Missouri on the sidelines.  He was talking with someone I didn't recognize pointing to newer additions of the Mizzou stadium like he was pointing out his accomplishments for an interview... and maybe he was?

Edited by Pavlovs Eagle
grammar
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2 hours ago, DeepGreen said:

Seths got to go but where does the buyout money come from?  The money people Alum of UNT didn’t get rich by continuing to pour money down a bottomless hole.  Do we lean on the same people that helped finance the IPF?

Yep, because the Loveless family are big fans/friends of Littrells. That could be a problem. 

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I have always been a huge Wren supporter, I truly think he has a great vision and ability to execute it. Our marketing, facilities, basketball… all amazing.

This Seth situation has me scratching my head and quickly losing that faith. If Seth is still here next year, Wren shouldn’t be. Football subsidizes those other programs. It’s exactly the opposite now. 

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2 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

Wren let Benford play out then hit a grand slam with McCasland. I expect the same with the Seth situation. I'm not judging Wren based on whether or not he fires a coach mid-season.. 

No, but it is fair to judge him on his decision to extend him with the terms that has us in this financial position right now.  Seth wasn't underpaid at the time.  Give him a very small bump in salary, increase/add some bonuses tied to real accomplishments, and add a year to the deal.  That is what I expected but that isn't what happened.   Raising your compensation by 1/3 isn't a small raise.  That is why I said we can't just use Wren as  the fall guy for this whole situation.  If he were on track to earn 2 million with a bowl win or CUSA championship game appearance no one would be complaining about his salary.  But this garbage AND you getting 1.8 while lessor paid coaches in conference have be kicking your going on 3 straight seasons?  

Can anyone say it was definitively 100% his call to extend Seth with that size of buyout?  I hope there are some upper management people on this board that can attest that a lot of time the bigger decisions involving your direct subordinates are taken out of your hand.  In general Wren Baker has been good for the Athletic Department.  I wouldn't want to throw him out if this wasn't 100% his call.  So I am judging him by what happen with the HC position at season's end.  Firing not him does give you more time to contact coaches above board and express interest.  Better coaches that know they will have options at season's end are going to take "what if" calls from "UNT sources" seriously.   Their agents might mention us to them but their more valuable clients are likely to say; ' meh keep news about potential offers for schools at this level to yourself and let me focus on my current job.'  Wren should have been the voice of reason in the extension process more level headed than your average alumni, booster or fan.  He should have been warning that this worse case scenario we are in now, would be actually worse than loosing him to KSU at the time. 

Edited by Mike Jackson
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10 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

No but it is fair to judge him on his decision to extend him with the terms that has us in this financial position right now.  That is why I said we can't just use Wren as  the fall guy for this whole situation.  Can anyone say it was definitively 100% his call to extend Seth with that size of buyout?  I hope there are some upper management people on this board that can attest that a lot of time the bigger decisions involving your direct subordinates are taken out of your hand.  In general Wren Baker has been good for the Athletic Department.  I wouldn't want to throw him out if this wasn't 100% his call.  So I am judging him by what happen with the HC position at season's end. 

To be fair to Wren, Seth was a very hot name in the coaching ranks and coming off another 9 win season when he extended him. It’s all gone very bad since. So I’m right there with you. I’ll judge Wren based on what happens at seasons end. 

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NT is a bad football team and Littrell will soon be gone.

I can't see anything to be gained by firing Littrell in season.   Does anyone really think that would help the team finish better?  I guess it would give some fans a type of revenge, but it would accomplish nothing.

I don't know why so many want to punish Baker for this mess.  In broad terms, the AD is responsible for everything in sports, but he is not coaching or recruiting.  He gave Littrell a good contract, but under the circumstances that existed then, I think most AD's would do the same. 

Wren has great challenge, obtaining the funds not only to buy out Littrell's contract, but also to use in signing the next head coach.   

Anyone avocating adding the replacement of the AD to this mess, is IMO very misguided. 

 

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For those choosing to judge Wren after the season is over.... The season is over.

Someone please show me an actual win left on our schedule. Maybe FIU, but probably not even that game. The season is over. It is time to fire Littrell and our program to move forward. Wren needs to do his job.

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2 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

NT is a bad football team and Littrell will soon be gone.

I can't see anything to be gained by firing Littrell in season.   Does anyone really think that would help the team finish better?  I guess it would give some fans a type of revenge, but it would accomplish nothing.

I don't know why so many want to punish Baker for this mess.  In broad terms, the AD is responsible for everything in sports, but he is not coaching or recruiting.  He gave Littrell a good contract, but under the circumstances that existed then, I think most AD's would do the same. 

Wren has great challenge, obtaining the funds not only to buy out Littrell's contract, but also to use in signing the next head coach.   

Anyone avocating adding the replacement of the AD to this mess, is IMO very misguided. 

 

You do realize the MWC is looking for expansion targets.... We can't afford to let this situation continue to fester. Wren needs to fire Littrell now. Not a month from now, or after the season officially ends. It is over.

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6 minutes ago, Side.Show.Joe said:

You do realize the MWC is looking for expansion targets.... We can't afford to let this situation continue to fester. Wren needs to fire Littrell now. Not a month from now, or after the season officially ends. It is over.

Disagree, firing a hc mid season; is not going to enhance NT's chances on joining anything. 

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It's easy to say WB should fire him now when you're not in the nitty gritty of all the details. If it were as easy as snapping your fingers, I'm sure WB would do it. None of us know the inner workings, politics, financial constraints, and any number of other things going on in the AD. 

Nobody is happy with how things are going. I trust WB to make the choice from now to the end of the season as soon as it is feasible. 

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12 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

Disagree, firing a hc mid season; is not going to enhance NT's chances on joining anything. 

Keeping him would be worse. Littrell is an embarrassment and he cannot be allowed to continue. If we fire him now, we can sell our next coaching hire while Smat works his connections in the MWC. There is no other option. We either do what needs to be done and fire Littrell, or watch another decade of UNT football go down the toilet. It is in Wren's hands, and time is not his friend.

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