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Can Seth regain your support?


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1 minute ago, mustangfan said:

Have you guys ever thought that part of your problem is you never want to stick with one guy for very long?  We are no different but I have a feeling that Sonny will be able to coach at SMU until he retires unless the Tech job is available.

6 years is a decently long time in football terms for a team to not only stagnate, but regress significantly. It would be one thing if we were continually losing close games and you could see there was something there to build on but this team is a dumpster fire. Most of the errors (stupid penalties, not fielding punts allowing horrible field position, etc. ) point to poor coaching. Not only that, many of our "highly rated recruits" are not panning out which either points to having a poor eye for talent or a coach not being able to coach them up properly. Add to that the off field drama we've had with coaches, recruits, etc. and major questions are asked. It really just feels like with the culmination of everything going on with the program (losing especially doesn't help), we have reached the end of the road with this coaching staff.  

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4 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

 

Coach Smoke and mirrors path to NT.

2002–2004 Kansas (GA)
2005–2008 Texas Tech (RB)
2009 Arizona (RB/TE)
2010 Arizona (Co-OC/RB/TE)
2011 Arizona (OC/RB/TE)
2012–2013 Indiana (OC/FB/TE)
2014–2015 North Carolina (AHC/OC/TE)
2016–present North Texas

 

Coach Franchiones Path to New Mexico......and above

1973–1974 Miller HS (MO)
1975 Mulvane HS (KS) (assistant)
1976–1977 Peabody-Burns HS (KS)
1978–1980 Kansas State (assistant)
1981–1982 Southwestern (KS)
1983–1984 Tennessee Tech (OC)
1985–1989 Pittsburg State
1990–1991 Southwest Texas State

 

Notice the difference? Coach Fran had extensive head coaching experience before getting to the next level. Coach "smoke and mirrors" has not.

So you're saying we shouldn't look to the Asst. coaching ranks to find our next HC because the path mirrors Littrell's, and he was a failure?

What about these guys' paths?

1993–1995 Alabama (GA)
1996 Alabama (WR/TE)
1997 Alabama (TE)
1998–2000 Alabama (WR)
2003–2006 Clemson (WR)
2007–2008 Clemson (AHC/WR)
2008 Clemson (interim HC/OC)
2009–present Clemson

 

2007 Texas Tech (WR)
2008–2009 Texas Tech (IWR)
2010–2013 East Carolina (OC/QB)
2014 East Carolina (AHC/OC/QB)
2015–2016 Oklahoma (OC/QB)
2017–present Oklahoma


And this season's National Champs:

2004 LSU (DB)
2005 Georgia (RB)
2006 Miami Dolphins (S)
2007 Alabama (AHC/DB)
2008–2015 Alabama (DC)
2016–present Georgia

 


Oh, I get it.   Those guys coach in the P5's and have unlimited resources, so they're set up to succeed, unlike North Texas.

How 'bout some successful G5 coaches:

 

2012 Colorado State (AHC/QB)
2013–2016 Alabama (WR)
2017 Arizona State (OC/QB)
2018–present Louisiana
2006 Ohio State (GA)
2007–2008 Northern Illinois (WR)
2009 Northern Illinois (WR/RC)
2010–2011 Rutgers (WR)
2012 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (WR)
2013–2016 Western Michigan
  • Northern Iowa (2007)
    Linebackers
  • Northern Iowa (2008)
    Co-defensive coordinator/linebackers
  • Oregon (2009–2012)
    Wide receivers
  • Oregon (2013–2015)
    Offensive coordinator/quarterbacks
  • UCF (2016–2017)
    Head coach
     
    2012 Arkansas State (RB)
    2013 Arkansas State (co-OC/RB)
    2014 Boise State (TE)
    2015 Boise State (OC/QB)
    2016–2018 NC State (OC/QB)
    2019 Appalachian State
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S

Quote

so you're saying we shouldn't look to the Asst. coaching ranks to find our next HC because the path mirrors Littrell's, and he was a failure?

Assistant coaches who have not ever had any head coaching experience, wouldn't be very high on my list. The coaches that I have mentioned (Franchione, Nelson, Rhule, and Traylor) have all been head coaches on their way up. And at least two  had to work with limited resources.  When you do that, you have the opportunity to learn how to make the best of what you have to work with. It gives you the opportunity to learn how to work outside your comfort zone, and gain additional knowledge from the guys you hired. 

Being a position coach at various schools is valuable experience, but being responsible for putting it all together is better.....especially if what you put together was successful.

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9 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

S

Assistant coaches who have not ever had any head coaching experience, wouldn't be very high on my list. The coaches that I have mentioned (Franchione, Nelson, Rhule, and Traylor) have all been head coaches on their way up. And at least two  had to work with limited resources.  When you do that, you have the opportunity to learn how to make the best of what you have to work with. It gives you the opportunity to learn how to work outside your comfort zone, and gain additional knowledge from the guys you hired. 

Being a position coach at various schools is valuable experience, but being responsible for putting it all together is better.....especially if what you put together was successful.

Let's look closer at this claim:

Fran: He's actually the only one that fits your bill.   Prior to joining TCU in 1998, he already had HC experience at 3 prior stops, including a long stint at UNM.

As for the others... 
Matt Rhule was never a HC before becoming Temple's HC.  NT is more like Temple than Baylor.

Corky Nelson's & Jeff Traylor's HC experience were in high school.  Otherwise, they were also Asst. coaches who moved up.   Are you counting High School Head Coaching as HC experience?   If so, boy do I have a winner for you down at Austin Westlake!

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1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I think in late 2018, we all thought our current guy was the guy like Fran you're talking about.  A hungry guy on his way up!  It really sucks what happened to Coach Littrell.

I don't know that he was/is smoke & mirrors.   I think he has coaching ability.
I honestly think something changed in him though.  Sometime between those negotiations in December 2018, and early in the 2019 season. 
I really think he's beaten now.   Just going through motions.  No fire anymore.  That's why some people on GMG.com call him "mumbles".  Just low-energy & beaten.  Definitely not the same guy jumping around on the sidelines in 2017.

He lost a lot of his early staff and didn't replace that well. Coaching matters as much talent.

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30 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Let's look closer at this claim:

Fran: He's actually the only one that fits your bill.   Prior to joining TCU in 1998, he already had HC experience at 3 prior stops, including a long stint at UNM.

As for the others... 
Matt Rhule was never a HC before becoming Temple's HC.  NT is more like Temple than Baylor.

Corky Nelson's & Jeff Traylor's HC experience were in high school.  Otherwise, they were also Asst. coaches who moved up.   Are you counting High School Head Coaching as HC experience?   If so, boy do I have a winner for you down at Austin Westlake!

Rhule had experience on both sides of the ball at Temple. He was also the recruitment coordinator for two years. Nelson not only had head coaching experience, but he was the defensive coordinator at Baylor and the defensive line coach at NT for one year. BUT that one year as DL coach was under Rod Rust ........a very well respected football mind in the pros. Todd Dodge had only one year of college coaching experience QB/WR coach at NT.  If he had ever spent any time being an assistant coach on defense some where, his tenure at NT could have been pretty different. OR if he had retained the defensive coaching staff that was already in place when he arrived at NT, things would have been different.

There are no absolutes, but I think my profile (imperfect as it might seem to you) of a more ideal coaching type for North Texas is pretty valid.

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6 minutes ago, SilverEagle said:

Rhule had experience on both sides of the ball at Temple. He was also the recruitment coordinator for two years. Nelson not only had head coaching experience, but he was the defensive coordinator at Baylor and the defensive line coach at NT for one year. BUT that one year as DL coach was under Rod Rust ........a very well respected football mind in the pros. Todd Dodge had only one year of college coaching experience QB/WR coach at NT.  If he had ever spent any time being an assistant coach on defense some where, his tenure at NT could have been pretty different. OR if he had retained the defensive coaching staff that was already in place when he arrived at NT, things would have been different.

There are no absolutes, but I think my profile (imperfect as it might seem to you) of a more ideal coaching type for North Texas is pretty valid.

I'm lost now.   
So you're NOT saying HC experience at the Collegiate level like Fran had is a pre-requisite?
You're now saying that the next coach must have HC experience (High School level is acceptable keeping Nelson & Traylor in here) along with some collegiate-level asst coaching, and/or come up as an assistant on both sides of the ball (extremely rare these days)?   To me, that still qualifies Todd Dodge under your "profile".

Just basically anyone but a coach who came up as a collegiate coach on one side of the ball... like Seth Littrell, right?   This despite me showing you the resume's of successful coaches who took that route like Napier, Fleck, Frost, & Drinkowitz?

Believe me, I know Littrell was a miss.   But we cannot use his failure as the reason to shut down an entire group of VERY GOOD COACHES.

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