Where UNT Stands in Realignment Based on Key Metrics

[Mean Green Matt]

8 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

From a reliable source North Texas was closer than most know with the MWC thing this time around.   It’s just few expected all 4 MWC schools to stay put.  Gut feeling is that it surprised MWC Commissioner Craig Thompson, too. 
 

Someone should tell the MWC they should still add DFW and San Antonio. 

[Wag Tag]

1 hour ago, Mean Green Matt said:

Someone should tell the MWC they should still add DFW and San Antonio. 

If CSU and AFA wanted more exposure then they have to add Texas and still have a geographic tie. Needs to happen before Big 12 comes calling.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

SDSU AD says they are still eyeing Texas for expansion around 13 minute mark.

Interviewer mentions SMU and he gets kind of coy, but mentions there are a couple programs that are making big investments and have potential in big markets. I almost assume he’s talking about UNT and UTSA. Hang on, things may still get interesting!

[Jonnyeagle]

57 minutes ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

SDSU AD says they are still eyeing Texas for expansion around 13 minute mark.

Interviewer mentions SMU and he gets kind of coy, but mentions there are a couple programs that are making big investments and have potential in big markets. I almost assume he’s talking about UNT and UTSA. Hang on, things may still get interesting!

Very encouraging!

[denton_days]

2 hours ago, ChristopherRyanWilkes said:

SDSU AD says they are still eyeing Texas for expansion around 13 minute mark.

Interviewer mentions SMU and he gets kind of coy, but mentions there are a couple programs that are making big investments and have potential in big markets. I almost assume he’s talking about UNT and UTSA. Hang on, things may still get interesting!

W/ the earlier comment about how close UNT was to joining, there’s no way they’re not talking about us. Making me feel pretty good about this!

[Green Otaku]

18 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

From a reliable source North Texas was closer than most know with the MWC thing this time around.   It’s just few expected all 4 MWC schools to stay put.  Gut feeling is that it surprised MWC Commissioner Craig Thompson, too. 
 

 

Really hope it happens. Any other tidbits or hints you could give us would be greatly appreciated. 👀

Edited October 3, 2021 by Green Otaku

[PlummMeanGreen]

25 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

 

Really hope it happens. Any other tidbits or hints you could give us would be greatly appreciated. 👀

This link below was one interesting page of comments from one forum.  

https://www.mwcboard.com/index.php?/topic/92358-conference-realignment-thread/page/266/#comments

[wardly]

I doubt that the MWC sits pat. If they are going to expand it should be soon, and I think it will include UNT. UTSA will probably get an invitation to AAC along with UAB, FAU, and perhaps Charlotte. One thing  that North Texas needs is a travel partner, and while Rice does not "bring" the Houston market anymore that we do DFW, both schools give the MWC the Texas exposure that it wants . For some reason a few sports writers have tried to pair us with Tulsa, who is never going to leave the AAC for the MWC, anymore than Mountain West schools are going to move to the American Athletic Conference. SDSU is hoping for a PAC 12 invitation, Boise and Memphis think they will be in the Big 12 soon, and no one wants to be in CUSA. In fact, I don't know if any SBC members would move to CUSA. I am not saying they wouldn't, but the Belt has a pretty good thing going on with an " us against the world" attitude that has worked well for them so far.

[Wag Tag]

SMU is not going to the MWC. I don’t believe the AAC will take UTSA because of lack of facilities and investment. The only option for the MWC is UNT , Rice and maybe UTSA. We have the facilities and Rice has the $$$! 

[Green Otaku]

4 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

This link below was one interesting page of comments from one forum.  

https://www.mwcboard.com/index.php?/topic/92358-conference-realignment-thread/page/266/#comments

Maybe I misunderstood your comment (or I'm misunderstanding this one), I thought you were saying you knew some inside info on the UNT side that confirmed we were close to the MWC. 😅

[outoftown]

If offered admission, for UNT going to the MWC would be a slam dunk over staying in a C-USA that is highly likely to lose at least one and potentially multiple members to the AAC.

However, I could imagine the following: Thompson lets SMU know that the MWC is seriously looking into adding UTSA and SMU, and if adding SMU fails, adding UNT instead. For Thompson this could be a try at dealing a death blow to the AAC and Arrescos narrative of it being the best non A5 conference and carry that mantle yourself. After all Arresco and the AAC just tried to seriously hurt Thompsons conference.

If you are SMU you now have to think about whether you are going to stay in an AAC that is currently down to 8 members, may get poached further, and may get fairly east heavy with new additions, plus have your high potential next door neighbour who never puts it together improve in their recruiting acumen, or instead move MWC that pays less and is at least as much travel, but is stable and may easily gather a better reputation than what is left in the AAC if you move. 

I don't think the SMU answer to Thompson is a slam dunk in either direction in this scenario. Maybe the answer is for SMU then to push for UTSA to get admitted to the AAC instead?

Edited October 4, 2021 by outoftown

[PlummMeanGreen]

10 hours ago, Green Otaku said:

Maybe I misunderstood your comment (or I'm misunderstanding this one), I thought you were saying you knew some inside info on the UNT side that confirmed we were close to the MWC. 😅

I did & my source (& I) think we were close to an MWC offer, but even a couple of national bloggers said the same thing, too, right?  Along with UNT, the national boys would add Rice (& the Houston market). My source said the same. I still believe all that was said.  Quite frankly, the 4 who vowed to stay with the MWC (for now)  screwed this all up.  That could change tomorrow.  (Stand by, UNT). 

We so want something good to happen at UNT since it has at other outposts who just seemed to have popped up out of nowhere. (Liberty U being at the top of that list).
 
After awhile, one would think UNT would start copying success & then hiring those who created it;  that is, those who turned start-ups &  “non-traditional” NCAA powers into Top 25 (or close to it) level programs. Seems the budget is there for UNT to do so. 

I told a UNT higher up 10 or so years ago that we should hire the La Tech recruiting coordinator & then hire their best recruiting assistant coach.  Hell! And back then—just hire Holtz!😊 Their recruiting lists produces winners while they were too many times kicking our butt recruiting in Texas. They out-recruited us back when they were in the WAC, too.  What the hell gives? Some things just defy logic.  Yet at UNT, we’ve trodded right along sometimes like the over-grown, “bumbling-stumbling” Baby Huey of old cartoons fame. That also defies logic, too. 

My source said to not elaborate so I didn’t so can we move on? I should have said nothing on this forum in the first place.  Now I feel like I‘m going to be “Joe Manchin’ized” & eaten by my own! 😆

 All this has turned out just about how I thought it would.  After all, 48 years of North Texas you begin to detect a definite trend & Lady Luck has rarely been involved with any of it, but like some have also said: “You make your own luck.”

A UNT alum & MG fan has to try to not stay negative.  Those who continue posting on this forum I secretly admire. When they stop would be the problem.
Our fans do seem to jump on & off bandwagons quicker than most compared to other schools, but maybe their fans just haven’t had the same road we’ve travelled, either— right? 
 

🦅

Edited October 4, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen

[wardly]

I would not be surprised if the MWC commissioner was forced out. One of the reasons the AFA and CSU gave for entertaining a move to the AAC was lack of confidence in Thompson in today's changing environment. I believe that the MWC will expand, that Texas is the only direction they can go, and that UNT and Rice will be invited to join. I just don't see SMU moving to the MWC from the AAC. UTSA should get an offer from the AAC unless Rice gets one instead. The Roadrunners and Owls might be in the best position as they should get invited to either the AAC or MWC, while our only option appears to be the MWC unless SMU goes crazy and moves there instead. Things should clear up in a matter of weeks as the AAC is moving forward after being spurned by the MWC. October looks to be an interesting month for realignment junkies like myself.

[Jonnyeagle]

10 minutes ago, wardly said:

I would not be surprised if the MWC commissioner was forced out. One of the reasons the AFA and CSU gave for entertaining a move to the AAC was lack of confidence in Thompson in today's changing environment. I believe that the MWC will expand, that Texas is the only direction they can go, and that UNT and Rice will be invited to join. I just don't see SMU moving to the MWC from the AAC. UTSA should get an offer from the AAC unless Rice gets one instead. The Roadrunners and Owls might be in the best position as they should get invited to either the AAC or MWC, while our only option appears to be the MWC unless SMU goes crazy and moves there instead. Things should clear up in a matter of weeks as the AAC is moving forward after being spurned by the MWC. October looks to be an interesting month for realignment junkies like myself.

Solid post as usual.  I am beginning to wonder if being a college that is subordinate to the flagship university is not a detriment for schools like UTSA, UTEP etc. and frankly even UAB.  Doesn’t the flagship school become the default for big donors in the state and also won’t they always limit the budget ceiling for the other “lesser” campuses.  Had always heard the UT forced UTA to drop football way back when.

[denton_days]

4 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

That could change tomorrow.  (Stand by, UNT)

😳

[keith]

With possibly a few exceptions, the goal of every G5 program is to get a seat at the table of the P5 feeding trough.  Movements among G5 conference members can be thought of as the proverbial rearrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic, but in the end, it's all about positioning and preening and hoping for that tap on the shoulder that may never come.  Prior to the most recent moves, the AAC was slightly ahead of the MW in terms of value as evidenced by where the B12 went shopping.  The AAC is now wounded and the inability to woo any MW members into the fold added salt to those wounds and elevated the MW to the top of the G5 heap.  The AAC will now need to look to C-USA, the Sun Belt and MAC (in that order) for fresh blood...the same pond the MW will go fishing if they want to expand.  This could become a first-movers situation or even a bidding war if the AAC thinks the MW is going after one (or more) if its targets or vice versa.  Just a guess, but when the first shot is fired, I think things happen fast.

[Mean Green Matt]

If the MWC wants the Dallas market we are good either way. If SMU goes then we are a shoe in to replace them in the AAC. Otherwise it would be us to the MWC (which is my strong, strong preference). 

[MeanGreenTexan]

3 minutes ago, Mean Green Matt said:

If the MWC wants the Dallas market we are good either way. If SMU goes then we are a shoe in to replace them in the AAC. Otherwise it would be us to the MWC (which is my strong, strong preference). 

100% agree.

And for those of you mentioning Rice...   Look at their endowment, which is just through the roof... then look at their Athletics situation.    For a school that is so rich, they sure don't value their athletics department very much:  They're not serious about athletics.    Neither is UTEP.     
NT & UTSA are showing a lot of financial commitment, and their locations are prime (sorry LATech).
Obviously, NT needs to start winning in football... we have literally everything else going for us.
UTSA needs to show a serious commitment to facilities.   As a school that has only had an athletics department for about 5 minutes, it makes sense that they're lagging, Rome wasn't built in a day.  They have plans, but now need to put those in action... quickly.

[wardly]

IF the MWC is serious about growing their brand they need to plant a flag in DFW,Houston, and perhaps San Antonio. At some point they know they will both lose Boise and SDSU and must be pro active now to survive.

[Green Otaku]

6 hours ago, PlummMeanGreen said:

I did & my source (& I) think we were close to an MWC offer, but even a couple of national bloggers said the same thing, too, right?  Along with UNT, the national boys would add Rice (& the Houston market). My source said the same. I still believe all that was said.  Quite frankly, the 4 who vowed to stay with the MWC (for now)  screwed this all up.  That could change tomorrow.  (Stand by, UNT). 

We so want something good to happen at UNT since it has at other outposts who just seemed to have popped up out of nowhere. (Liberty U being at the top of that list).
 
After awhile, one would think UNT would start copying success & then hiring those who created it;  that is, those who turned start-ups &  “non-traditional” NCAA powers into Top 25 (or close to it) level programs. Seems the budget is there for UNT to do so. 

I told a UNT higher up 10 or so years ago that we should hire the La Tech recruiting coordinator & then hire their best recruiting assistant coach.  Hell! And back then—just hire Holtz!😊 Their recruiting lists produces winners while they were too many times kicking our butt recruiting in Texas. They out-recruited us back when they were in the WAC, too.  What the hell gives? Some things just defy logic.  Yet at UNT, we’ve trodded right along sometimes like the over-grown, “bumbling-stumbling” Baby Huey of old cartoons fame. That also defies logic, too. 

My source said to not elaborate so I didn’t so can we move on? I should have said nothing on this forum in the first place.  Now I feel like I‘m going to be “Joe Manchin’ized” & eaten by my own! 😆

 All this has turned out just about how I thought it would.  After all, 48 years of North Texas you begin to detect a definite trend & Lady Luck has rarely been involved with any of it, but like some have also said: “You make your own luck.”

A UNT alum & MG fan has to try to not stay negative.  Those who continue posting on this forum I secretly admire. When they stop would be the problem.
Our fans do seem to jump on & off bandwagons quicker than most compared to other schools, but maybe their fans just haven’t had the same road we’ve travelled, either— right? 
 

🦅

 

Great post, fingers crossed. 🍻

[Green Otaku]

7 hours ago, outoftown said:

If offered admission, for UNT going to the MWC would be a slam dunk over staying in a C-USA that is highly likely to lose at least one and potentially multiple members to the AAC.

However, I could imagine the following: Thompson lets SMU know that the MWC is seriously looking into adding UTSA and SMU, and if adding SMU fails, adding UNT instead. For Thompson this could be a try at dealing a death blow to the AAC and Arrescos narrative of it being the best non A5 conference and carry that mantle yourself. After all Arresco and the AAC just tried to seriously hurt Thompsons conference.

If you are SMU you now have to think about whether you are going to stay in an AAC that is currently down to 8 members, may get poached further, and may get fairly east heavy with new additions, plus have your high potential next door neighbour who never puts it together improve in their recruiting acumen, or instead move MWC that pays less and is at least as much travel, but is stable and may easily gather a better reputation than what is left in the AAC if you move. 

I don't think the SMU answer to Thompson is a slam dunk in either direction in this scenario. Maybe the answer is for SMU then to push for UTSA to get admitted to the AAC instead?

 

SMU might listen to the MW, but ultimately it doesn't make sense for them. They would have to pay 10 million (minimum) in exit fees, at this time a lesser pay out, more travel, and they would move away from their small private peers (Tulsa, Tulane.) I just don't see how it benefits them enough to make the move. 

[All About UNT]

1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

100% agree.

And for those of you mentioning Rice...   Look at their endowment, which is just through the roof... then look at their Athletics situation.    For a school that is so rich, they sure don't value their athletics department very much:  They're not serious about athletics.    Neither is UTEP.     
NT & UTSA are showing a lot of financial commitment, and their locations are prime (sorry LATech).
Obviously, NT needs to start winning in football... we have literally everything else going for us.
UTSA needs to show a serious commitment to facilities.   As a school that has only had an athletics department for about 5 minutes, it makes sense that they're lagging, Rome wasn't built in a day.  They have plans, but now need to put those in action... quickly.

UTSA is hamstrung by finances. Ticket sales are down even though they are winning and projections for the record by the end of the year even allows for them to be undefeated. They are charging face value now for tickets instead of giving them away for every bucket of chicken that you bought (not being sarcastic). Go read their board ... Apparently they didn't have the money to put the roof on their practice facility. They desperately want an on-campus football stadium and they are very well aware of the fact that the rest of their facilities need upgrades (besides the new gym and admin). They don't have the money to fund these things and their own fan base question how long it will be before they do achieve these upgrades. 

[DentonLurker]

The biggest problem I continue to see is that there's this assumption that TV is okay with a school's mere presence geographically in a market. The real question I would have is whether or not we actually deliver the DFW market. We can't even fill Apogee. Do we add enough eyes to televisions to "deliver the DFW market" is my real question? I have the same question about Rice and the Houston market. I'm honestly afraid that we are getting to a point where if you're not in the Pac12, SEC, ACC, or Big 10 you're going to continue to be relegated to ESPN3, Stadium, Facebook, YouTube, etc. and that the financial impact for your institution will continue to ween.

[Green Otaku]

4 minutes ago, DentonLurker said:

The biggest problem I continue to see is that there's this assumption that TV is okay with a school's mere presence geographically in a market. The real question I would have is whether or not we actually deliver the DFW market. We can't even fill Apogee. Do we add enough eyes to televisions to "deliver the DFW market" is my real question? I have the same question about Rice and the Houston market. I'm honestly afraid that we are getting to a point where if you're not in the Pac12, SEC, ACC, or Big 10 you're going to continue to be relegated to ESPN3, Stadium, Facebook, YouTube, etc. and that the financial impact for your institution will continue to ween.

 

I think we can all honestly agree that we are selling our potential right now. Hundreds of thousands of Alums and many of them in DFW means if the MWC can help build us up to ideally a Boise St. style run we can pull a good chunk of eyes. Also don't forget that these teams value Texas recruiting, a team in Texas opens up more possibilities for every team in the MWC. 

[PlummMeanGreen]

35 minutes ago, Green Otaku said:

 

I think we can all honestly agree that we are selling our potential right now. Hundreds of thousands of Alums and many of them in DFW means if the MWC can help build us up to ideally a Boise St. style run we can pull a good chunk of eyes. Also don't forget that these teams value Texas recruiting, a team in Texas opens up more possibilities for every team in the MWC. 

Norm Hitzges has said more than once on “The Ticket”...

“Why not North Texas being another Boise State?” 

http://www.winsipedia.com/boise-state/vs/north-texas

🦅

Edited October 4, 2021 by PlummMeanGreen