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Teams to Replace UH, Cincinnati, and UCF?


Jonnyeagle
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14 minutes ago, Legend500 said:

Good to see we're back on the "SMU snubs us" bs, which was true last century, but hasn't been true in a long time. You don't sign agreements until practically 2040 with schools you're trying to suppress. It was already out of date when I joined this board in 2003, now it's just sad....

I know some people are arguing this.  They're wrong for sure.

The problem is, North Texas brings nothing to the table that SMU doesn't already provide the conference.  Our attendance is only slightly better than theirs, we're in the same market so we don't introduce anything new there, and we have a much smaller donor base/athletic budget.   So, in a sense, SMU's existence in our same region is what's "snubbing" us...  not their powerful voice in AAC meetings.     We'd have to bring something to the table that would make the other AAC schools say, "North Texas is worth sharing our money with."


Also:
 

19 minutes ago, Legend500 said:

...If I'm Judy, I pull a preemptive strike...

stanley-the-office.gif

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Speaking of snubs. Apparently some at Baylor who would have preferred that Houston not be included.

Maybe the Big 12 looks to go to 14. David Smoak and SicEm365 explored that possibility today. Smoak is very well connected on that front, so he’s hearing that from credible people.

The Big 12 existing with the original eight and the new members is a good ending for Baylor. I’d prefer Houston not be in this conglomerate, but I’d take this over ending up in the American.

Big 12 Will Add BYU, UCF, Houston and Cincinnati on Friday—Yahoo and Brett McMurphy Report (msn.com)

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1 hour ago, Legend500 said:

Good to see we're back on the "SMU snubs us" bs, which was true last century, but hasn't been true in a long time. You don't sign agreements until practically 2040 with schools you're trying to suppress. It was already out of date when I joined this board in 2003, now it's just sad.

I haven’t bought that “SMU snubbing us” narrative since we entered the Sun Belt and started the home & home series with them.   It is a convenient boogie man every round of conference realignment that I think we have to address unfortunately for many who don’t understand the current media landscape.  Going regional has been the way to go since we started playing at the FBS level again.  Dominating a regional conference, increasing the interest in your brand, and revenue you generate independent of conference payout is the only way dreams of P5 upgrade are remotely possible.  (If you are dreaming of a P5 upgrade within the next 10-15 years, stop doing acid).   
 

Conferences aren’t adding school based on potential unless they are in fear of losing status.  (Like I posted in “Chicken or Egg).  Otherwise the PAC 12 would have added Houston and/or Tech to enter the Texas market.  Long term I suspect secretly PAC 12 officials might live to regret snubbing this state in this round of realignment.

 

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On 9/8/2021 at 1:28 PM, DeepGreen said:

Ever go to an LSU game in Baton Rouge?  Worst fans on earth.

They're better than they used to be, but only because they were punished and told that they would no longer have night games or tailgating if they didn't improve. 

It was the September 2005 game against Tennessee when drunken swarms of LSU fans attacked the Vol's team busses, rocking them and then shattering windows with beer bottles. Suddenly behavior that was always deemed acceptable was condemned by LSU when it was found that some high up UT administrators, coaches' wives, and wealthy boosters were also on the besieged busses. The SEC offices were going to get involved.

 

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17 hours ago, MeanGreen22 said:

I think people need to remember that, yes, football plays a huge role in conference realignment. But so does the athletic department as a whole, the facilities, endowment, student enrollment, etc. You put all those together and UNT definitely should be on a short list for any potential conference “upgrade.”

A baseball program would help a lot.

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2 hours ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

The problem is, North Texas brings nothing to the table that SMU doesn't already provide the conference.  Our attendance is only slightly better than theirs, we're in the same market so we don't introduce anything new there, and we have a much smaller donor base/athletic budget.

We have a higher budget than (almost?) everyone being talked about. SMU owns DFW the same way I own Apple.

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18 minutes ago, ColoradoEagle said:

We have a higher budget than (almost?) everyone being talked about. SMU owns DFW the same way I own Apple.

The first part is great.  However, my comments are around comparing us to SMU.   

And I'm not saying SMU owns DFW.   TCU doesn't even own DFW.   As long as Texas, OU, & A&M t-shirt fans are alive, those 3 schools all "own" DFW.

Again, what does NT bring to the AAC that SMU doesn't already bring?   
What can't-live-without-this commodity do we have that would make all of the other AAC member schools want to share their revenues with us?    Maybe Grant McCasland & Men's B-ball?   I hate to put him up against it, but he's gonna have to carry NT Athletics on his back for the next year or so.  He cannot afford to slip.  He'll need to find a way to get NT back into the tourney, or at least the NIT...  because a losing (or even .500) football program ain't gonna do it.

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4 hours ago, Mike Jackson said:

Your 4 team block departure proposal to go to the MWC makes sense.  However that block without a school with a major city or state in its name wouldn’t be  attractive to the MWC imo.   Moving with one partner is out of the question if their plus 1 is Rice that is essentially has the impact of bring into 1 school in revenue and dividing it by 2.  Only the Sun Belt would be interested in that maybe.  And while UTSA or UTEP might want to partner with SMU and go west I don’t see SMU wanting to go with one of them to do so.  The smartest move for SMU imo would be a 4 team block going to MWC but exclusively trying to capture all/most of the remaining G5 CFB fan eyeballs in the state of Texas.  So that would the candidates would be Rice, UTSA, Texas State, UTEP and UNT.  Regionally the MWC would favor UTEP out of those candidates I think.  So it would be Texas State, UNT and UTSA.  One of those 3 get left out.  Unfortunately from the viewpoint of the MWC I think it’s between UNT and Texas State.  I would hope the existing rivalries with both SMU and UTSA would be the check mark that gets us in.  I suspect Rice, Tulsa, and Tulane don’t excite TV partners courting a MWC package.  If you don’t have a long (or recent) history of winning on big stages or a state/major city in your school’s name you are at a major disadvantage generating interest in from fans of schools you travel too.  The laymen easily has a vague understanding what/who North Texas, Texas State, Houston, Texas and UTSA  represent and what they are.  They are large population schools as academic institutions.  Conversely they don’t know who or where Tulane and Rice are.  And Tulsa isn’t exactly a well known major city and the publicity from the Watchmen on HBO and the Race Riot it featured wasn’t exactly good. 
 

SMU can snub us all they want but it only hurts them in the long run.  Like it NASCAR is you are too busy trying to block someone behind you, you probably get passed by several others you never saw as a threat.  Embrace us a partner in getting athletic department revenue and then try to kick our ass on the field.

Unless its USC I don't see any attraction for private schools, especially small ones, by the MWC. I don't know the exact enrollment of Baylor, but SMU is about 10,000, Tulsa about 3,000, and I think Rice is some where in between.

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14 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Again, what does NT bring to the AAC that SMU doesn't already bring?   
What can't-live-without-this commodity do we have that would make all of the other AAC member schools want to share their revenues with us?

Well, I don't think any school that may move into that conference satisfies those questions. If they did, they'd already be there. This is most definitely a "best of the rest" type of situation. And out of the names that have been thrown out there so far, we're certainly in the running.

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If the leagues don't get together and decide on better regional conference teams will not be able to fly across the country for very long.   Less funds will be available as the P-5 suck it up and attendance will be more important.  Sure some teams will get their feelings hurt but they are on the next call up anyway (so they want to believe).    

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Well I could understand SMU not wanting to give up a willing non-conference opponent and make them a league opponent opening up non-conference slots but the bigger issue is what’s in it for AAC?

Their opinion most likely is that we got DFW already why not look elsewhere?

As a friend said, think like Aresco. Who furthers the P6 narrative? Who has a brand that would get the media saying they should be in the big brand group?

That’s a tough order. Air Force hasn’t been all that good but apple pie and the American flag. Colorado State pretty well fits. Boise fits but Boise is a pain to deal with by all accounts and they may think Big 12 is in their future. Gets pretty slim after that. USM still has some faint residual glow of being good but they’ve not been especially good since what 2012? Marshall was lethargic after joining CUSA and has benefitted from CUSA 3.0 but their big attention was years ago.

The you’ve got to consider the politics. What schools get six votes out of the pool of Tulsa, SMU, Tulane, Memphis, USF, ECU, Temple, Wichita State? That probably is good for UAB even though they are not what I’d call an AAC brand, they just fit well geographically. 

 

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I’m not beyond looking at the sun belt as a step up if we don’t accelerate up to AAC. I want away from Judy in every way as the conference continues to crumble.  App State Louisiana and Coastal are better programs than many in our league. We also get a better tv deal. 
 

I would go MWC unless Boise leaves. They leave the conference becomes undesirable.  Play East. 
 

GMG

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I am starting more and more to think that if the AAC or MWC are no options, and if C-USA loses some of its more interesting members from an NT perspective, going independent for a while may be the right move.

If instead the AAC takes UAB, Marshall and other institutions further east , C-USA may however become actually more attractive from an NT point of view. Not sure that is the route the AAC would go though.

Edited by outoftown
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15 hours ago, ColoradoEagle said:

Well, I don't think any school that may move into that conference satisfies those questions. If they did, they'd already be there. This is most definitely a "best of the rest" type of situation. And out of the names that have been thrown out there so far, we're certainly in the running.

Man, I hope so, but our football results lately are a black eye for sure.

I haven't heard much about Northern Illinois being considered... but they should be.   
Every once in a while, they jump up and really compete (had a few 1-loss seasons & played in big bowls recently).  This season, they've already started out by beating GATech!
Plus, they bring in a totally new market in Chicago.

EDIT:  Prrofraeding.

Edited by MeanGreenTexan
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We need Seth to win.  And we need donor pool and influence to be included in the criteria.  I don’t know that any of these other schools being considered have done as much in the last 5-10 years to grow that pool of big money guys.  You can see the commitment being made everywhere.  From coaches salaries to capital investments and facilities upgrades. I think we are either going AAC or MWC.  We’ve publicly made those our targets and I don’t see us settling for standing pat.  With smu in DFW, MWC may be our most likely destination.

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1 hour ago, Arkstfan said:

 

I read somewhere that UTA was courting the MVC for membership. I also think that after the Big 12 digest their new additions and Texas/OU  actually leave that its a good possibility that they add two more teams. Memphis and Boise were the two programs mentioned.Also you can add A-State to the growing list of possible candidates to the AAC.

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39 minutes ago, wardly said:

I read somewhere that UTA was courting the MVC for membership. I also think that after the Big 12 digest their new additions and Texas/OU  actually leave that its a good possibility that they add two more teams. Memphis and Boise were the two programs mentioned.Also you can add A-State to the growing list of possible candidates to the AAC.

I don’t think AState is realistic for AAC. Memphis is sitting 70 miles away and will not play in hoops but plays in everything else. Why add someone who overlaps not just your recruiting area but your ticket sales area. 
 

I am a firm believer that when you seek members you want close but not too close. You don’t want schools that get covered by your own local media and sell more than a nominal number of tickets in your ticket marketing area. 
 

UTA apparently is talking with the Valley so voluntary departure is feasible. 

As to UALR normally expulsion requires a unanimous vote but UALR is operating under a waiver of the bylaws. Back when UNT was in we adopted a 15 conference sport requirement to force UNO out and to put UALR on the clock because they only had 14. They’ve since dropped tennis (league sport) and added wrestling (not a league sport, but fully funded by the father of AState’s starting QB, who funded numerous high school wrestling programs in Arkansas). 
 

Depending on who you believe revoking UALR’s waiver takes either a 3/4ths or majority vote. 
 

Trojans are toast only having been indulged because Chris Beard had a great year there. 

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keith was awarded the badge 'Great Content' and 20 points.

I've hit on this before, but if I'm in the business to make money, I'm going where the customers are.  This whole school is already in the market stuff is just plain stupid IMHO.  Just for the sake of argument, here are some schools (CUSA, AAC and Sun Belt only) and the current DMA they are in along with the current DMA size.  If, and I realize it's a big if, UNT were able to bring in an additional 10% of the DFW market, what would other schools have to bring in within their respective markets to match?  Geography be damned.  Follow the people and the money.  Once you get past the first 4 or 5 (arguably the first two), the rest make no sense.  You can also add some additional factors in there like what is the probability of UNT commanding 10% of DFW or F*U garnering 17% of theirs, but here are the raw numbers and they shouldn't be ignored.  

image.png.f30d657e8165b196e90589ddd17bcf27.png

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