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Seth Littrell's future


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22 hours ago, Tom McKrackin said:

It really is all up to Wren.  If Wren is happy and can settle for ending up at North Texas Seth may retire here.  If Wren is wanting to move up the AD food chain he will fire Littrell for another mediocre season.  I tend to think it is somewhere in between.  I seriously doubt Phil Bennett decided to come out of retirement only to be be shown the door along with Littrell after this season.  My spidey sense says that he has two more years and the pressure to win comes hard in 2022.

Seth it seems is very well liked by the people who could provide the money to buy-out his contract. Would be nice if they could restructure his contract like Michigan did with Harbaugh to make it more incentive based. 

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On 6/8/2021 at 10:45 AM, untjim1995 said:

That 9-4 season finished rather blah, mostly because SL and GH were at the top of the wish lists for several openings, but to the strong majority of the CFB world, his success in his first three years here were considered damn near miraculous. Him coming back here for Mason Fine's senior season was basically thought to be his swan song here, at least until the wheels fell off and Fine was pounded into the ground over and over.

 

I don't disagree, his first 2.5 years here were unbelievable. he squeezed water from a stone. 

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8 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Unbelievable might be a reach. Check that, is a reach. He took advantage on hitting on a QB (And kudos to him for that) and entering into an ultra weaker than usual CUSA. I mean, to say it was unbelievable would put winning conference titles and bowl games as realities in that window. Not getting camel punched in the throat in every meaningful game he coached. His best season or in your words, the most unbelievable season he's had up to this point was 2017. There isn't anything unbelievable about 69-31, 50-30, 54-32, and 41-17.  Those are the finals of the 4 biggest games of the season in what has been his most successful season. Not to mention his wins. 4 one score wins vs what were basically .500 clubs or worse. I say all of that to say that since that season things have not progressed. He follows up the 2017 season with a monumental win vs a horrible Arkansas team to only crap the bed vs CUSA foes and not be able to return back to the CUSA Champ game with a division title in what SHOULD have been his best team. I'm rooting for the Mean Green and I hope nothing but the best. But daggum, this coach is entering his 6th season with 1 division title and 0-fer in bowls and CUSA championships. I'm in the Mean Green's corner, not in SL's. 

Bingo 

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On 6/9/2021 at 12:18 PM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Unbelievable might be a reach. Check that, is a reach. He took advantage on hitting on a QB (And kudos to him for that) and entering into an ultra weaker than usual CUSA. I mean, to say it was unbelievable would put winning conference titles and bowl games as realities in that window. Not getting camel punched in the throat in every meaningful game he coached. His best season or in your words, the most unbelievable season he's had up to this point was 2017. There isn't anything unbelievable about 69-31, 50-30, 54-32, and 41-17.  Those are the finals of the 4 biggest games of the season in what has been his most successful season. Not to mention his wins. 4 one score wins vs what were basically .500 clubs or worse. I say all of that to say that since that season things have not progressed. He follows up the 2017 season with a monumental win vs a horrible Arkansas team to only crap the bed vs CUSA foes and not be able to return back to the CUSA Champ game with a division title in what SHOULD have been his best team. I'm rooting for the Mean Green and I hope nothing but the best. But daggum, this coach is entering his 6th season with 1 division title and 0-fer in bowls and CUSA championships. I'm in the Mean Green's corner, not in SL's. 

100%

I don't see how he wins more than 4 games this year. Maybe 5 and that's a stretch. In year 6, he will have to have to have the coaching performance of his career this season to get back to a respectable record. I don't know why the lights would suddenly come on here in year 6 but I guess it's possible.

If he wins 4-5 games and Wren lets him come back next year, then that's a bigger picture issue (one that will show that nothing has changed at NT) that will put the spot light squarely on our AD. Littrell will have 4 losing seasons here out of 6 and more than likely an overall losing conference record in the worst conference in football. 

I would say a safe bet would is he's gone after this year and best case for him, is an OC at a P5 next year. 

 

Edited by TheColonyEagle
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On 6/9/2021 at 12:18 PM, NorthTexasWeLove said:

Unbelievable might be a reach. Check that, is a reach. He took advantage on hitting on a QB (And kudos to him for that) and entering into an ultra weaker than usual CUSA. I mean, to say it was unbelievable would put winning conference titles and bowl games as realities in that window. Not getting camel punched in the throat in every meaningful game he coached. His best season or in your words, the most unbelievable season he's had up to this point was 2017. There isn't anything unbelievable about 69-31, 50-30, 54-32, and 41-17.  Those are the finals of the 4 biggest games of the season in what has been his most successful season. Not to mention his wins. 4 one score wins vs what were basically .500 clubs or worse. I say all of that to say that since that season things have not progressed. He follows up the 2017 season with a monumental win vs a horrible Arkansas team to only crap the bed vs CUSA foes and not be able to return back to the CUSA Champ game with a division title in what SHOULD have been his best team. I'm rooting for the Mean Green and I hope nothing but the best. But daggum, this coach is entering his 6th season with 1 division title and 0-fer in bowls and CUSA championships. I'm in the Mean Green's corner, not in SL's. 

A lot of truth here.

Edited by meangreen11
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3 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

100%

I don't see how he wins more than 4 games this year. Maybe 5 and that's a stretch. In year 6, he will have to have to have the coaching performance of his career this season to get back to a respectable record. I don't know why the lights would suddenly come on here in year 6 but I guess it's possible.

If he wins 4-5 games and Wren lets him come back next year, then that's a bigger picture issue (one that will show that nothing has changed at NT) that will put the spot light squarely on our AD. Littrell will have 4 losing seasons here out of 6 and more than likely an overall losing conference record in the worst conference in football. 

I would say a safe bet would is he's gone after this year and best case, is an OC at a P5 next year. 

 

  The key should be the hiring of Phil Bennett.  Out of all the available coaches out there, bringing back a guy three years removed from coaching (if I got that right?) to exorcise our defensive demons should be the litmus test -  after all of the above, SL and co. hires Bennett…does the defense improve or do we still see the same not-so-mean green defensive efforts that costs games?  Find success on defense and SL is a hero again, but if the defense provides the same results then what?  Brought in a dinosaur to Coach and look what happened…?  Really piss poor defensive effort last few years…get it right SL.  

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Like I stated the offense was fine in the past but the defense was...

2020 North Texas Mean Green Fun Stats

– 1st Quarter Scoring: Opponents 111 – North Texas 45
– Time of Possession: Opponents 34:23 – North Texas 25:38
– Points Per Game: Opponents 42.8 – North Texas 34.4

So we score but can the defense keep them out of the end zone? That is the question we can ask  about Seth's future1

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On 6/11/2021 at 2:26 PM, ChiefTenBeers2015 said:

The key should be the hiring of Phil Bennett.

Look I hope you are right but in my mind, Bennett had been put out to pasture with Art and the rest of that staff way back when and Seth sort of threw him a life vest back to a college coaching career.  What gives me hope are the moves they are making personnel wise on defense and also having Novil back is huge.  Bennett may be the best defensive mind out there but he inherited very questionable talent and numbers in this job.  It very may well take several years to build the defensive personnel and depth he was used to having at a place like Baylor.

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21 minutes ago, Tom McKrackin said:

Look I hope you are right but in my mind, Bennett had been put out to pasture with Art and the rest of that staff way back when and Seth sort of threw him a life vest back to a college coaching career.  What gives me hope are the moves they are making personnel wise on defense and also having Novil back is huge.  Bennett may be the best defensive mind out there but he inherited very questionable talent and numbers in this job.  It very may well take several years to build the defensive personnel and depth he was used to having at a place like Baylor.

Put out to pasture from Baylor?  You realize he left Baylor and immediately coached at AZ St., right?

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14 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Put out to pasture from Baylor?  You realize he left Baylor and immediately coached at AZ St., right?

And quit there because of personal health..had surgery.

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38 minutes ago, Tom McKrackin said:

Look I hope you are right but in my mind, Bennett had been put out to pasture with Art and the rest of that staff way back when and Seth sort of threw him a life vest back to a college coaching career.  What gives me hope are the moves they are making personnel wise on defense and also having Novil back is huge.  Bennett may be the best defensive mind out there but he inherited very questionable talent and numbers in this job.  It very may well take several years to build the defensive personnel and depth he was used to having at a place like Baylor.

I'm not sure I'd say that yet.

Novil is a stud and the Murphy twins have tremendous upside and performed well as freshman. Tyreke and KD are solid LB's. John Davis, Upton Stout, and Gaddie have all shown promise in the DB room. 

Questionable? Maybe, but I like to think we have some solid pieces that will work well in the right environment

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So much to see from this upcoming season...if firings do occur, what number does SL/PB have to lose to get canned to justify a buyout total of over $3 million? Does winning 4-5 games this year give SL the one last year to turn it around with Phil Bennett's defense, just to justify not spending anymore on buyouts? Does a winning season change anything for the university's mindset toward SL and extending him? IOW, if we finished with 7 wins, does SL get extended or does the university basically say, good, now prove it again to get the next extension? 

As much as this says about SL's future, it will say just as much about our view of funding the program, which has been astonishingly higher than we have ever seen it be in the past. If I had to bet, as we come off the covid season, if we win more than 3 games, he will get that last year, just because of the cost, but this is nothing certain, obviously.

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3 hours ago, RBP79 said:

And quit there because of personal health..had surgery.

True, but that is different than "being put out to pasture" which intimates that he was past his prime.  I think Bennett brings a lot to the table and we happen to be close to home for him.  I am excited to see what he does with the talent on that side of the ball, which I think is much greater than what it has shown.  Novil is proven in the middle and players like Jackson, the Murphy twins, Gaddie, etc... had great offer lists.  The talent is there.

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In my mind, we should expect our offense to decline in numbers, simply because our defense HAS to improve. Unless our D becomes a 3 and out monster, time of possession will equalize, our offense will look leaner, all that business.

The point is, I don't care if our offense holds their same numbers or gets less. They were always on the field because our D was coughing up more blood than a 1750's French prostitute. 

For Seth's future, the offense is not the key or the issue (it could be better still, but that's definitively where his talent lies). It's whether he can field a complete team. He hasn't yet. Defense wins championships. Offense gets you clicks on ESPN.

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SL threw the dice.  If PB is a good of defensive coach at UNT as he has been at other places things will be just fine.  In my mind last season for most all college football and college sports in general was an aberration.  I believe five wins should be attainable, other teams can have "surprising" teams, stranger things have happened.  Hopefully we will be surprised.  Some maturity in the coaching staff should not hurt either.

GO MEAN GREEN!!!

WIN GAMES!!!

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9 hours ago, Mo Green said:

Like I stated the offense was fine in the past but the defense was...

2020 North Texas Mean Green Fun Stats

– 1st Quarter Scoring: Opponents 111 – North Texas 45
– Time of Possession: Opponents 34:23 – North Texas 25:38
– Points Per Game: Opponents 42.8 – North Texas 34.4

So we score but can the defense keep them out of the end zone? That is the question we can ask  about Seth's future1

Your takeaway from this is that our offense was fine? I think you need to review the math on the amount of points we scored in the first quarter per game. If this was based on our 10 games played including the bowl, that’s only 4.5 points per game - not even averaging a TD in the first quarter. And that 34.4 ppg stat means a lot less when you calculate how slow we started. 
I am sorry, our offense was not fine and Seth needs a figure out how to score earlier in the game - especially against good defensive teams - or the defense is going to continue to struggle no matter how much of an impact Bennett has. 

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9 hours ago, Mo Green said:

Like I stated the offense was fine in the past but the defense was...

2020 North Texas Mean Green Fun Stats

– 1st Quarter Scoring: Opponents 111 – North Texas 45
– Time of Possession: Opponents 34:23 – North Texas 25:38
– Points Per Game: Opponents 42.8 – North Texas 34.4

So we score but can the defense keep them out of the end zone? That is the question we can ask  about Seth's future1

I'll piggy-back @97and03here with one more perspective: 

A couple times (SMU/UTSA) we were plastered in the 1H:

SMU outscored us 34-7
UTSA 28-7

Recall we also trailed at half to MTSU and UTEP (possibly others) before finally pulling out wins.

It was a pathetic early display on both sides of the ball.  I speculate we don't actually know much about our post-Fine offense, since so much production is garbage/non-pressure situations.

I may be remembering wrong, but I think one of the reasons we'd be so deflated early on is we were giving up so many explosive plays in the 1Q.  If we can cut those out, while scoring more points early, I think we will see vastly different football game unfold for our Mean Green.

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9 hours ago, greenminer said:

I'll piggy-back @97and03here with one more perspective: 

A couple times (SMU/UTSA) we were plastered in the 1H:

SMU outscored us 34-7
UTSA 28-7

Recall we also trailed at half to MTSU and UTEP (possibly others) before finally pulling out wins.

It was a pathetic early display on both sides of the ball.  I speculate we don't actually know much about our post-Fine offense, since so much production is garbage/non-pressure situations.

I may be remembering wrong, but I think one of the reasons we'd be so deflated early on is we were giving up so many explosive plays in the 1Q.  If we can cut those out, while scoring more points early, I think we will see vastly different football game unfold for our Mean Green.

I'll jump on the dog pile here.....

yes giving up the big play early hurts...but if our offense is good...shouldn't we answer? We didn't.

In our 6 losses last season, we scored 66 points total in the first half. 11 points per game. We gave up 100 more total points in the first half of those games. (just over 27 points per half) So in the 2nd half of those games....we threw for a bunch of yards being down on average more than 2 Tds to start the half. A lot of meaningless offense in the 2nd half of those games pumped our numbers up.

Our offense was NOT ok last year.

 

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I think that's the biggest loss we had with Graham Harrell. Sure his mid-to-late playcalling was suspect at times, but almost always his opening script of 20-25 plays or whatever it was would put us in a position to get 10-14 points in the first few drives.

Obviously having Mason helped, but we haven't seen the same early game offensive success since Harrell left. Maybe Bloesch will help that with a year under his belt, but it's crucial we get a couple scores early on to set the tempo for the rest of the game.

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5 minutes ago, MGNation92 said:

I think that's the biggest loss we had with Graham Harrell. Sure his mid-to-late playcalling was suspect at times, but almost always his opening script of 20-25 plays or whatever it was would put us in a position to get 10-14 points in the first few drives.

Obviously having Mason helped, but we haven't seen the same early game offensive success since Harrell left. Maybe Bloesch will help that with a year under his belt, but it's crucial we get a couple scores early on to set the tempo for the rest of the game.

Yes under GH we had generally strong starts but then he couldn’t adjust to the DC’s second half counter. 

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3 hours ago, TheColonyEagle said:

yes giving up the big play early hurts...but if our offense is good...shouldn't we answer? We didn't.

Expectations.  You can plan to get X number of them (explosive/big plays) per game, but be careful.  If you're expecting them to keep you in a game, something is probably going terribly wrong.

Edited by greenminer
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19 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

True, but that is different than "being put out to pasture" which intimates that he was past his prime.  I think Bennett brings a lot to the table and we happen to be close to home for him.  I am excited to see what he does with the talent on that side of the ball, which I think is much greater than what it has shown.  Novil is proven in the middle and players like Jackson, the Murphy twins, Gaddie, etc... had great offer lists.  The talent is there.

Offer list don’t matter it’s about developing them where they are to make them productive. So many kids who have great offer list go to colleges and never play a snap or reach “offer list potential”

Edited by GreenGang45
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28 minutes ago, GreenGang45 said:

Offer list don’t matter it’s about developing them where they are to make them productive. So many kids who have great offer list go to colleges and never play a snap or reach “offer list potential”

Oh, I agree 100% but I believe their ratings and offer lists reflect their talent/potential.  It is up to the player and staff to develop that talent.  Darden is a great example of this.  He was a three star with a rating of .81 coming out of high school.  Some of that was due to his stature.  I don't know if we have had a young man with his work ethic at North Texas in a long time.  That, coupled with the staff working with him and putting him in a position to succeed have led to his opportunity with Tampa Bay.  Hope that makes sense, but I do agree with your statement.  I have watched many with high ratings and great offer lists never pan out.

Edited by UNTLifer
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