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46 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

We're pretty much off-topic and now into full-fledged political talk here.     Sadly, this thread will not last much longer unless there's a pretty hard pivot back on subject.

Derek Chauvin is guilty and deserved his sentence. Sitting on a man, whether on his neck or not, for over nine minutes when the man is no longer resisting and is stating that he is having trouble breathing is terrible.

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Everybody upset with this decision just go ahead speak up so I can block you now. Don't just give me a downvote or an eye roll, speak up please. 

I am hoping you also want accountability for those who attack and kill officers?

Ending qualified immunity. Stopping broken windows policing  stopping discriminatory policies like stop and frisk  Better training focusing on recognized biases, cultural competency, ag

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I’m so glad he is imprisoned and I really hope that we can critical consider police reforms to prevent this from continuing to happen. I do not know what a ‘president’ is, and I don’t plan on finding out in this thread.

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1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

I am not asking for a back and forth, I am just curious about what policies Biden has endorsed, rolled out, or proposed that you are happy with?  

Look, I think Trump was a thin-skinned blowhard 99% of the time and didn't like that he didn't disavow conspiracy loonies, but I also agreed with a number of his policies that were enacted to take care of our country first.

I honestly couldn't tell you because once he was sworn in I told myself I would stop giving politics any of my time I've muted most of it from my timeline on twitter. Admittedly there have been a few things that have made me shake my head but I don't know enough. So I am the wrong one to ask if he's done a good or bad job because I have gone back to not caring about politics again more or less as I did before 2016.

I respect that, I really do. I am Texan born and raised I lean more right than left but like I said I'm waiting to see what direction the party goes in. 

Sorry If I steered this topic in the wrong direction please don't suspend me I'm done lol.

 

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3 hours ago, ntmeangreen11 said:

I honestly couldn't tell you because once he was sworn in I told myself I would stop giving politics any of my time I've muted most of it from my timeline on twitter. Admittedly there have been a few things that have made me shake my head but I don't know enough. So I am the wrong one to ask if he's done a good or bad job because I have gone back to not caring about politics again more or less as I did before 2016.

I respect that, I really do. I am Texan born and raised I lean more right than left but like I said I'm waiting to see what direction the party goes in. 

Sorry If I steered this topic in the wrong direction please don't suspend me I'm done lol.

 

Same

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So, if you have sworn off politics since Biden got elected, how can you be pleased with him as President when you don’t follow his actions?

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Back on topic, I stood in my place of business a couple of years ago while a shooter was on the loose in Midland/Odessa killing and injuring people as he drove around town. I watched police storm my business to keep us safe and then watched them end that man’s life saving others. They came from all over this area of the state to end that nightmare and to protect those they swore to serve. I watched one officer be brought in that had his forearm turned to ground meat and lost his eye. They came running in when everyone else was running away. They chose a tough profession and for every Chauvin there are a thousand great officers doing a tough job on a daily basis. 

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I almost never come over here. Don’t know why this is now the 6th page of the discussion. The heading is that this cop was found guilty. The whole world saw this video of over 8 minutes.There should be consensus with this verdict; with no further discussion. Instead, there was a diversion to defending cops and blaming victims.

For most of my life, I have resided in a mostly African American community. My current residence was about 70% Anglo when I purchased my home. (white flight took over) I don’t know of a black person that does not support good cops. I actually wanted to pursue the profession in high school but my parents vehemently opposed. 

It is the toughest job I know and they deserve to return home each night. Unfortunately, there are bad apples who abuse their authority. Often times stopping and arresting folks disproportionately. I agree that everyone must comply. However, many of the frequent headlines are because victims were complying or not a threat to the officers. The theme is often, “I feared for my life”

Thankfully, this is a small minority of cops. Conversely, most black people do not commit crimes, though higher than the general population. Most protests I’ve seen are mostly peaceful; void of the negative images often on the news. 

 I hope we can all agree that something needs to be done. No one should lose their life when they are pulled over a tail light, passing an alleged $20 bill, sleeping in their car or running away from a cop (because they may an outstanding ticket). Apprehend them and let the court decide their punishment. De-escalate as much as possible.

To conclude, yes, all bad cops need to be held accountable to the full extent of the law. Period.
 

 

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2 hours ago, Cooley said:

I almost never come over here. Don’t know why this is now the 6th page of the discussion. The heading is that this cop was found guilty. The whole world saw this video of over 8 minutes.There should be consensus with this verdict; with no further discussion. Instead, there was a diversion to defending cops and blaming victims.

For most of my life, I have resided in a mostly African American community. My current residence was about 70% Anglo when I purchased my home. (white flight took over) I don’t know of a black person that does not support good cops. I actually wanted to pursue the profession in high school but my parents vehemently opposed. 

It is the toughest job I know and they deserve to return home each night. Unfortunately, there are bad apples who abuse their authority. Often times stopping and arresting folks disproportionately. I agree that everyone must comply. However, many of the frequent headlines are because victims were complying or not a threat to the officers. The theme is often, “I feared for my life”

Thankfully, this is a small minority of cops. Conversely, most black people do not commit crimes, though higher than the general population. Most protests I’ve seen are mostly peaceful; void of the negative images often on the news. 

 I hope we can all agree that something needs to be done. No one should lose their life when they are pulled over a tail light, passing an alleged $20 bill, sleeping in their car or running away from a cop (because they may an outstanding ticket). Apprehend them and let the court decide their punishment. De-escalate as much as possible.

To conclude, yes, all bad cops need to be held accountable to the full extent of the law. Period.
 

 

Very nice

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It's an interesting line of profession - no doubt. One that I can respect, but also heavy eye roll while talking about. 

Police rightfully talk about their safety and fears. I get it. They are handling some wheels off stuff from time to time. 

Fatalities on the job don't crack the top 20.  

https://www.ishn.com/articles/110496-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-us-the-top-20

They are not legally required to "Protect" based on Supreme Court basis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia#:~:text=2d.-,1%2C D.C. Ct.,on the public duty doctrine.

And they aren't highly qualified to  "Serve" in any real capacity when it comes to civil issues. 

So it is  a grey area where fear and militarization seem to be the daily operation - which leads to all sorts of bad press and bad feelings.

I just watched a short documentary on HBO about this case:

https://www.courthousenews.com/black-teacher-sues-austin-for-violent-arrest/

...and I found the teacher to be kind of gruff and whatever during the stop. However it went from 0-60 in the matter of no time (when the cop has ALL the power) and he escalated it and made some hyperbolic claims. She beat the charges, but not he ride and her name was dragged through the dirt. She ended up getting a settlement from the City and the officer later lost is job on a different case about lying about causes. It just doesn't have to happen. 

Back to the point - in the squad car - a DIFFERENT cop was talking to her while taking her to jail. She was asking about racism in the police force and this dude said that maybe there is and he is not, BUT blacks are violent by nature and that is why she got the reaction she got from the officer. I was slack jawed in amazement. This guy fully thinks he is not racist, but looks at a 95lb ballet dancer and pre-school teacher and sees someone who is inherently violent. Gross.

 

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https://www.apmreports.org/story/2017/05/05/police-de-escalation-training

Interesting report from APM regarding the lack of de-escalation training. The first case they cover the guy was shot dead within 30 seconds of the pull over - then in the video the Sheriff was lamenting that he should have just fought him instead. In the documentary I mentioned above, the non-racist-cop pile drove the ballet dancer/teacher within 10 seconds of the pull over. 

Instead of slowing down - they speed up. Real question, is there quota or training on how quickly to resolve an interaction on a call? Like for phone banks. Do police need to wrap it up within X minutes? I am for real, curious if there some systemic reason for the police going all gas in the non-normal situations. 

This was is interesting - on what they trained the officer from the Castille murder. Well trained in how people are motivated to kill him, but little in the way of de-escalating. 

"During Yanez's five years with the department, he had received 344 hours of training, including a 20-hour course called the "Bullet Proof Mind," which, according to one recording of a session, warns officers that they are "dealing with individuals who are motivated to kill in a way that we have never seen before."

Yanez also spent 16 hours on a course called "Street Survival," from the same training company. Conversely, he had obtained just two hours of de-escalation training. Yanez is now facing manslaughter charges." 

 

Edited by SteaminWillieBeamin
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The reason LE doesn't "crack the top 20" in job fatalities, is because of the training and gear. But its not just fatalities that makes the job dangerous.  It is sever injury.  If you do the job long enough, you will most likely suffer long term injury.  I suffered an injury last year that I am still recovering from.  I'm starting to realize that I may never be back to full health.  So, you definitely have to factor in long term injury and disability into the equation, and not just fatalities. 

De-escalation is a new term, so there is still alot of training being developed.  There is no such things as quotas, no matter how many people want to say otherwise.  What agencies like to see is contacts.  They can be calls for service, traffic stops, consensual encounters, etc.  Agencies just want to see it documented that the officers are out doing their jobs, meeting people, deterring crime, etc.

 

There is not a mandatory amount of time to spend on a call, it depends on the type of call, the subjects of the call, and other factors.  In some busier agencies, they may want to see a call wrapped up as quickly as you can and not lollygag.  You can't spend and hour on an animal complaint when the owner is being a dick, when you have 3 or 4 disturbances popping off at the same time.  

 

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4 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

Right - something other industries don't have?  Nearly all blue collar industries have their injuries and severe injuries.  Whole industries come into place to train and avoid those. It is not special to police. 

 

I don't recall saying it was exclusive to law enforcement. I was explaining why why we don't have an acceptable number of fatalities for you to justify saying it's a dangerous job. 

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Just now, Rudy said:

I don't recall saying it was exclusive to law enforcement. I was explaining why why we don't have an acceptable number of fatalities for you to justify saying it's a dangerous job. 

I appreciate you answering my other question. Thank you. 

 

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