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Greatest Teams In School History


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1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

According to Sports Reference, this was our best team in school history based on SRS (Simple Rating System), and last year’s team was our second best by a decent margin. SRS is similar to other metrics where it bases our rating based on score margins and strength of schedule. Besides these last two seasons, it really seems to favor our years back in the MVC due to the competition level. You can sort below by SRS to see what I’m referring to.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/north-texas/

Not sure what historic RPIs would say, maybe @CMJcould pull that one out if he has time. The quality of these last two teams that Mccasland put together were absolutely legendary here, and I’m excited to see how it gets followed up.

And I'm glad to be old enough to have seen the Top 5 NT SRS teams. Welcome to "The Pit!"

Edited by Eagle71
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I might look into it later.  It's an interesting metric, but I'm not sure I'd trust it completely.  I do think this probably is our best team of recent years, if not ever, but an argument for last season can be made since we won the league regular season.  Also some of the previous seasons they grade I think we were probably better than than others which are scored higher.   Example...our 2009-2010 tournament team is rated lower than almost all the years surrounding it.  I personally think that was JJ's best team by a wide margin.

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31 minutes ago, Eagle71 said:

And I'm glad to be old enough to have seen the Top 5 NT SRS teams. Welcome to "The Pit!"

Would love to see film of some of those classic games and opponents. The caliber of opponents who came through Denton in the 60s and 70s is basically unheard of by today’s standards.

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I would like to see them play the 76-77 team that had Weasel Johnson, Melvin Davis, Fred Mitchell, Kenneth Williams, etc... that finished 21 - 5.  I have no idea who would win, but it would be a fun game to watch.

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This only makes  me wonder not only what could have been last year, but what could have been if Williams and Jones had passed their classes and Johnny Jones had led them into the NCAA’s. That freshman group was amazing. 

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1 minute ago, CMJ said:

In athletics history as a whole?

 

We did win a few National Titles in Golf back in the day.  I'd say they have the edge.

Yes, four national titles in a row!

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23 minutes ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

This team is by far the best in UNT athletics history 

I can only imagine if it was a normal year

No, it is not.  The 68-69 team is in the running if not the best.

This team only went 15-10, but arguably in the best conference in the land at that time (MVC).

The team averaged 88.8 pts a game.

Players:

Joe Hamilton  5/10  20.4 pts 3rbs

Crest Whitaker  6'2 20.0 pts 6 rbs

Leroy Winfield  6'2  15.4 pts 6.8rbs

Bill Cutter  6'6 9.4 pts  5 rbs

Joe Stephens  6'2  7.5 pts 5.1 rbs

Mort Fraley  6'6  5.9 pts 5.1 rbs

Total opposite type teams, the older team was run and gun, full court press versus last year's methodical half court offense and very defensive oriented game.   

You can effectively argue that the current team maybe the best, but not that it is far the best in NT history. 

 

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16 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

No, it is not.  The 68-69 team is in the running if not the best.

This team only went 15-10, but arguably in the best conference in the land at that time (MVC).

The team averaged 88.8 pts a game.

Players:

Joe Hamilton  5/10  20.4 pts 3rbs

Crest Whitaker  6'2 20.0 pts 6 rbs

Leroy Winfield  6'2  15.4 pts 6.8rbs

Bill Cutter  6'6 9.4 pts  5 rbs

Joe Stephens  6'2  7.5 pts 5.1 rbs

Mort Fraley  6'6  5.9 pts 5.1 rbs

Total opposite type teams, the older team was run and gun, full court press versus last year's methodical half court offense and very defensive oriented game.   

You can effectively argue that the current team maybe the best, but not that it is far the best in NT history. 

 

Also not to mention back with those MVC teams the tournament field was 25 or less teams, and was only 32 during those good Blakeley teams. 

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23 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

National titles in golf is very good but it hardly compares to a “revenue sport” like basketball that dominates even casual sport’s fans during the NCAA Tournament.  
 

 

Exactly my point. I mean I think it’s amazing they won 4 straight titles, but that was also 80 years ago.

Winning a tournament game as a big underdog for the first time ever and a conference championship in 2021 is bigger.

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26 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

National titles in golf is very good but it hardly compares to a “revenue sport” like basketball that dominates even casual sport’s fans during the NCAA Tournament.  
 

 

The question wasn't what means more to the school.  It was what was "best."  This obviously meant more to the school (I mean I'd guess so anyway, not like many of us were alive when we won Natty's in Golf), but a National Title is better than that.

Edited by CMJ
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10 minutes ago, CMJ said:

The question wasn't what means more to the school.  It was what was "best."  This obviously meant more to the school (I mean I'd guess so anyway, not like many of us were alive when we won Natty's in Golf), but a National Title is better than that.

Yup. To quote his own statement

1 hour ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

This team is by far the best in UNT athletics history

 

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This was definitely the most highly visible team since I’ve been following since ‘86. They capitalized on the moment and opportunity to showcase UNT and our new but not so new brand.

Outside of the Dallas morning news everyone knows we are UNT versus NTS. The prime time night slot on day 1 was epic for March madness starved fans. The pandemic caused fans of all forms to glance at the screens for a sense of normalcy plus you couldn’t travel there in person so you weren’t distracted by rallies activities outside the event centers.

You had a Star player and admirable supporting cast with a wonderful story and super cute Dad. Mr Hamlet’s pride swelled all game long and he felt like everyone’s dad grandpa or next door neighbor. Grant rolls with the emotion. Smu and tcu out.

This garnered in my opinion more than a run to the New Year’s Day 6. You need quirky you need story you need drama. Even djs on kiss 106 were talking about how excited they were for last nights game. Over the airwaves unsolicited pub!

Alumni across the metroplex representing. Went to my Manchester United watch party and saw another United fan I had no idea was a mean green diehard until he dawned his SOW cap to go along with his United jersey.

We all knew Nova was going to be a beast. They play beautiful basketball. But hats off to the team to Grant to Wren. It was the NIT partnership with our logo blasted across the USA leading into the Big Dance. It was the drama of taking the difficult road to win the championship in Frisco! It was taking down a mighty Big 10 team in one of their best years. It was the drama of overtime grit and resilience all the way to the end. Such an easy Team to be proud of. 

Our brand looked great on tv. We have name recognition on the national stage. People love making the Mean Green their own. Heck we can be the wrecking machine or whatever they want to rhyme with us to grow and ignite our fanbase. Peter Pan did this for us in Fayetteville and this Team did this for us in Indianapolis. 

Thanks to All! 
GMG

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This is a very comical discussion. 1975-1976 beats this team consistently by 15-20. There are NO (zero) starters on this current team that would have started in 75-76.  In fact, that team beats that Nova team last night by 10. 

Walter "Weasel" Johnson > Javion Hamlett

Carl Jones > James Reese

Fred Mitchell > pick a player

Melvin "Lurch" Davis > Thomas Bell

Terry Bailey & Kenneth Williams > Zach Simmons

That squad consisted of 1st team All-Staters, Juco All-Americans and 1st Team All-Conference; prior to coming to Denton. that team has 4 legit North Texas Hall of Famers. (should have one more)

The bench/depth was much than the current reserves. 

There were no lightly recruited kids as NTSU was the premier team in Texas. Yes, they lost to West Texas State but West Texas was the 2nd best team in Texas. (Led by Maurice Cheeks of the NBA) NT did avenge that lost later in the year in front of approx. 8k at the Pit. As you all know, North Texas played an independent schedule and many top programs backed out of playing them. That team would have gone undefeated in CUSA today. 

Come on guys!

  

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22 minutes ago, Cooley said:

This is a very comical discussion. 1975-1976 beats this team consistently by 15-20. There are NO (zero) starters on this current team that would have started in 75-76.  In fact, that team beats that Nova team last night by 10. 

Walter "Weasel" Johnson > Javion Hamlett

Carl Jones > James Reese

Fred Mitchell > pick a player

Melvin "Lurch" Davis > Thomas Bell

Terry Bailey & Kenneth Williams > Zach Simmons

That squad consisted of 1st team All-Staters, Juco All-Americans and 1st Team All-Conference; prior to coming to Denton. that team has 4 legit North Texas Hall of Famers. (should have one more)

The bench/depth was much than the current reserves. 

There were no lightly recruited kids as NTSU was the premier team in Texas. Yes, they lost to West Texas State but West Texas was the 2nd best team in Texas. (Led by Maurice Cheeks of the NBA) NT did avenge that lost later in the year in front of approx. 8k at the Pit. As you all know, North Texas played an independent schedule and many top programs backed out of playing them. That team would have gone undefeated in CUSA today. 

Come on guys!

  

That team is definitely among the contenders for best teams in school history, but to say they consistently beat a second-round NCAA tournament by 15-20 when they only had 4 wins by that margin for the season seems a bit hyperbolic. Same for them going undefeated in CUSA. That 75-76 team lost some games to some less-than-spectacular teams and most of their games were pretty close.

4-pt win against a 12-15 Bowling Green team, 1-pt win against 9-18 Oklahoma City, 2-pt win against 7-19 Louisiana Lafayette, and an 8-pt win against 3-23 Samford. But they beat an NCAA second round team consistently by 15-20?

Also, I know that was a good team that season but were we really the premier team in Texas from a recruiting standpoint like you’re alluding to with us having no lightly recruited kids? I know that team was good, but they had not been over .500 in 6 seasons so was that our recruiting standing among the state at the time?

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I don’t know why you young-ins are even having this debate.  
 

EVERYBODY knows that the 15 B.C. squad was the best in our history.  

Flinstone was an all-cave 1st teamer

Rubble averaged 20 a night

And Dino was so dominant in the paint that he broke five slate backboards.  Five!!  

Teams were so scared to step foot in “The Quarry” that they went extinct

They’d beat this team by 30 and then peddle their car all the way back home in time for dinner.

 

1EB14C9B-2ED4-4821-A081-133167866605.jpeg

Edited by emmitt01
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4 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

That team is definitely among the contenders for best teams in school history, but to say they consistently beat a second-round NCAA tournament by 15-20 when they only had 4 wins by that margin for the season seems a bit hyperbolic. Same for them going undefeated in CUSA. That 75-76 team lost some games to some less-than-spectacular teams and most of their games were pretty close.

4-pt win against a 12-15 Bowling Green team, 1-pt win against 9-18 Oklahoma City, 2-pt win against 7-19 Louisiana Lafayette, and an 8-pt win against 3-23 Samford. But they beat an NCAA second round team consistently by 15-20?

Also, I know that was a good team that season but were we really the premier team in Texas from a recruiting standpoint like you’re alluding to with us having no lightly recruited kids? I know that team was good, but they had not been over .500 in 6 seasons so was that our recruiting standing among the state at the time?

One thing to remember with those 1960-75 teams is that the SWC at that time barely knew what basketball was.   NT, UTEP and WTSU were the premier clubs in the state. 

Robbins was fired after he with Tubbs probably recruited the best classes in NT basketball history.   Anyone remember Bobby Iverson a legit first team AA and perhaps the greatest pure athlete ever at NT.     Add in Ken Williams, Terry Bailey, Melvin Davis, and Carl Jones.  

Blakeley was the benefactor of this recruiting and won over 20 games for three years.   Blakeley couldn't replace that kind of talent and after that run, NT slipped into an average at best club.   

I do think that these seventy teams had overall better players than the current team.  No one as good as Hamlet, but a much better starting team and much more quality depth. 

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I’m always starting my team with “Weasel” Johnson at the point. Didn’t say 75-76 was the best team in history. Just that there has not been a better team since then 1975-1976. I watched NT on tv weekly in the late 60’s and early 70’s. They were equal to if not better.


I’m blessed to have been around long enough to have followed this program, since 1975, as a student. I remain amazed at how many folks can debate this topic without any first hand knowledge or  Actually experience games themselves, in those UT orange seats each game. I realize the internet and social media does a good job providing some history, but it often falls short of capturing prior decades. 

Yes, the quality of programs were played were much better, despite not have the name recognition today. As stated before, West Texas State was our rival. The were Border line a top 20 program. With only 17k students at NT and only 40k residents in Denton. The much larger crowds of 8k 9k and the overflow crowd 10,500 against a very good Ira Terrell SMU squad should provide some since the fan base recognized what was special.

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Cooley(N Tx Sport Net),

I like Cooley have had the good fortune of watching Dan Spika's teams in the Valley in the the 'OLD SNAKE PIT' and much as I love this team it would in the top 5, but certainly not the best. My only difference in his assessment and mine would I would say because of his value to his team, Hamlet =Johnson  the rest is correct. The only problem during the Blakeley era was going independent in ALL sports, because it almost destroyed non-football sports (football 'had the INDEPENDENCE BOWL as a carrot')the other sports didn't have a CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP to play for. The VALLEY was the ACC/ BIG EAST  of the day. If the 3 point shot had been in effect the scoring would've been astronomical for that team and  JOE HAMILTON/CREST WHITAKER  teams(Dan Spika) full court pressing and the SNAKE PIT GOING CRAZY! I love what this team has accomplished and yes in the TOP 5, just my 2 cents. GO MEAN GREEN

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