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27 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

I said it was my personal experience with the ones I knew and still am connected with on social media. Vast majority are coaching or working jobs that they probably would’ve ended up with if they didn’t earn a scholarship. I know some end up with office jobs, but those are usually the guys who have background in that field from their parents and would’ve most likely ended up with that type of job without an athletics scholarship. 

I think we can do more for these guys. Back in the day we used to list their majors on their website bios. I don’t think it’s a coincidence we stopped doing that. Everything else I’ve already said multiple times in this thread.

He said the injury occurred during his senior year. He didn’t say Alabama stopped honoring his scholarship. Also didn’t say what year or coaching staff/AD.

I have a friend from back in the day that played college basketball(not UNT), got his Finance degree. He worked in Finance for about 3 years and decided he didn’t want to do that any more. He opened a landscape company and did very well for himself. 

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Steps up on his soapbox: Kids with talent are coddled and made to feel special because of their athletic ability and it starts at a young age.  They build a mentality over the years that they are

Tony’s basketball career was his own to make or break in, but it’s a shame we don’t do more to set our student athletes up for success after their playing careers are over. Of the football and ba

This FB posting is very sad. I used to travel quite a bit as I commuted to my job in NYC from Durham.  I was typically dressed in a suit when traveling and each time I passed the shoeshine stand

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22 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

It comes down to what do we really want for our student athletes. Do we really want to set them up for success after college or do we want to encourage them to take general studies courses to make everyone’s lives easier while they are here?

We can all just say “hey, that’s on each player why they didn’t get good jobs after college. Not our fault most of our football and basketball alum are working jobs they could’ve got without a scholarship here.”

Like I said, we should be able to pitch that scholarships at UNT will lead to better careers for these players than they would have had without it. I don’t see the focus on making that the case, and I definitely don’t see the results.

Not disagreeing that many schools do a crappy job. But the athletes need to take ownership also. We keep talking about empowering the athletes and that should be paid, well you can't pick and choose those things you are responsible for and those things that are everyone else's fault.  As Peter Parker said, "With great power there must also come great responsibility"

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32 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

I have a friend from back in the day that played college basketball(not UNT), got his Finance degree. He worked in Finance for about 3 years and decided he didn’t want to do that any more. He opened a landscape company and did very well for himself. 

That’s great. I wish there were more of that, is what I’m saying.

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19 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Not disagreeing that many schools do a crappy job. But the athletes need to take ownership also. We keep talking about empowering the athletes and that should be paid, well you can't pick and choose those things you are responsible for and those things that are everyone else's fault.  As Peter Parker said, "With great power there must also come great responsibility"

I would have less of a gripe if they were paid, but the ROI on these degrees is often justification for why they aren’t. And the ROI on a lot of these degrees they are encouraged to major in is almost non-existent, which makes it a farce in those cases. We can preach personal agency all we want but if the data at a macro level, with a big sample size shows something, you have to examine the control variable.

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15 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

That’s great. I wish there were more of that, is what I’m saying.

He was not a star by any means. He took advantage of the opportunity the he had fir free school...on his own efforts. 
you can lead a horse to water......

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1 hour ago, BillySee58 said:

It comes down to what do we really want for our student athletes. Do we really want to set them up for success after college or do we want to encourage them to take general studies courses to make everyone’s lives easier while they are here?

We can all just say “hey, that’s on each player why they didn’t get good jobs after college. Not our fault most of our football and basketball alum are working jobs they could’ve got without a scholarship here.”

Like I said, we should be able to pitch that scholarships at UNT will lead to better careers for these players than they would have had without it. I don’t see the focus on making that the case, and I definitely don’t see the results.

You said they could probably get those same jobs without a scholarship. But with that scholarship, they get get that job without school debt. 

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8 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

He was not a star by any means. He took advantage of the opportunity the he had fir free school...on his own efforts. 
you can lead a horse to water......

I think in this type of analogy we aren’t leading a horse to water. Water would be leading them to business degrees or other degrees that have defined job fields. That’s what I’m saying we need to do more of.

4 minutes ago, MeanGreen_MBA said:

You said they could probably get those same jobs without a scholarship. But with that scholarship, they get get that job without school debt. 

They’re getting jobs that they only need a high school degree to get. They could do that without college debt too.

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5 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

I think in this type of analogy we aren’t leading a horse to water. Water would be leading them to business degrees or other degrees that have defined job fields. That’s what I’m saying we need to do more of.

They’re getting jobs that they only need a high school degree to get. They could do that without college debt too.

Out of the 200 or so scholarship athlete are we under serving. I would bet that with our higher than average graduation rate, most are getting jobs that the average non-athlete college student gets. 

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8 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Tony’s basketball career was his own to make or break in, but it’s a shame we don’t do more to set our student athletes up for success after their playing careers are over.

Of the football and basketball alums I know or follow on SM, some become coaches, but outside of that very few actually go into a job field that requires a degree. Many are encouraged to go towards integrative studies (general studies) or other degrees that help them focus on athletics, which just doesn’t open up many doors for them after graduation.

Long story short, from what I see it just feels like so many of our athletes end up with jobs they probably would’ve had even if they didn’t go to college, and I wish UNT did more there. 

Based on the experience of a family member, these programs (integrative/multiplinary disciplinary) are the absolute worst thing for many students. Does not help prepare them for many jobs. This is a tactic in many cases so the school say that helped someone graduate. 

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33 minutes ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Based on the experience of a family member, these programs (integrative/multiplinary disciplinary) are the absolute worst thing for many students. Does not help prepare them for many jobs. This is a tactic in many cases so the school say that helped someone graduate. 

I call BS on this, there are plenty of very successful people including my old boss that do not have the traditionally "successful" degrees.  My old boss was a school teacher with an education degree and is now a very highly compensated executive.

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Just now, meangreen11 said:

I call BS on this, there are plenty of very successful people including my old boss that do not have the traditionally "successful" degrees.  My old boss was a school teacher with an education degree and is now a very highly compensated executive.

There are specific degrees called multiplinary disciplinary degrees (different names at different schools), they are not education degrees or other targeted disciplines. Might want to understand what they are before you try and equate them to an education degree. 

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3 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

I said it was my personal experience with the ones I knew and still am connected with on social media. Vast majority are coaching or working jobs that they probably would’ve ended up with if they didn’t earn a scholarship. I know some end up with office jobs, but those are usually the guys who have background in that field from their parents and would’ve most likely ended up with that type of job without an athletics scholarship. 

I think we can do more for these guys. Back in the day we used to list their majors on their website bios. I don’t think it’s a coincidence we stopped doing that. Everything else I’ve already said multiple times in this thread.

He said the injury occurred during his senior year. He didn’t say Alabama stopped honoring his scholarship. Also didn’t say what year or coaching staff/AD.

Thank you.

No, I did not say a word about his scholarship being pulled or not. I have no idea and the question was never raised.  If I were to guess, I would say the gentleman in question is in his early 40's. 

 

Edited by letsgiveacheer
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9 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Tony’s basketball career was his own to make or break in, but it’s a shame we don’t do more to set our student athletes up for success after their playing careers are over.

Of the football and basketball alums I know or follow on SM, some become coaches, but outside of that very few actually go into a job field that requires a degree. Many are encouraged to go towards integrative studies (general studies) or other degrees that help them focus on athletics, which just doesn’t open up many doors for them after graduation.

Long story short, from what I see it just feels like so many of our athletes end up with jobs they probably would’ve had even if they didn’t go to college, and I wish UNT did more there. 

Benford didn't help 

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1 hour ago, El Paso Eagle said:

Based on the experience of a family member, these programs (integrative/multiplinary disciplinary) are the absolute worst thing for many students. Does not help prepare them for many jobs. This is a tactic in many cases so the school say that helped someone graduate. 

Right. That has been my main point this whole thread. Easier classes for the students, easier to boost the program GPA, and more time to have their student athletes focused on winning games, helping the coaches’ careers.

It’s a win-win until that student-athlete goes into the job market after their playing career ends. By then there is no more scholarship to go get a different degree.

It’s not on coaches to pick majors for their student athletes, I just want us properly educating them on what these degrees mean and helping them make the best decision they feel for their future beyond athletics. I think we could do a better job there, is my prevailing point.

Edited by BillySee58
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11 minutes ago, NorthTexasSportsNetwork said:

Benford didn't help 

He didn’t, but he definitely still had chances to prove himself on the court after that.

I hope we get a chance to see another 5-star basketball recruit sign with North Texas, but I feel like we fumbled the opportunity here on multiple fronts. If a 5-star were considering us, then did their homework on what happened the last time a 5-star chose North Texas, that could very well be the end of our chances on that recruit.

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5 minutes ago, BillySee58 said:

Right. That has been my main point this whole thread. Easier classes for the students, easier to boost the program GPA, and more time to have their student athletes focused on winning games, helping the coaches’ careers.

It’s a win-win until that student-athlete goes into the job market after their playing career ends. By then there is no more scholarship to go get a different degree.

It’s not on coaches to pick majors for their student athletes, I just want us properly educating them on what these degrees mean and helping them make the best decision they feel for their future beyond athletics. I think we could do a better job there, is my prevailing point.

UTEP pushes them hard to help bump up their graduation numbers. 

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Didn't he play pretty successfully overseas?  I figured he probably made decent money for a few years there.  Obviously a ton of athletes blow all their money -- isn't it something like half of all pro athletes are bankrupt within three years after retirement?

 

I feel for Tony.  Hopefully when the pandemic is over he can get back to playing somewhere and/or find a good gig doing something else.

 

 

Edited by CMJ
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I think a lot of players that enter the portal are thinking they will have a career in sports after college.   Many don't see it as an opportunity to prepare themselves for employment after the lights go out.  If we are not giving our players on their degree choice we are doing them a disservice.   Sure, many won't listen but at least we made them aware of happens after college sports.

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2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

I would like to see players major listed on the roster. 

I know TV broadcasts used to do that  I haven't noticed them doing so the last few years though..  

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Here is a question to think about ....

If the goal is to get students for careers so Universities be allowed to have players enrolled in Technical programs? Who could still have the "basics" in their Freshman and Sophomore years, but then let them study HVAC, Auto Mechanics, etc? Some will say no without a doubt, but the current setup is a joke and students are being let without real world skills.

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19 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Yeah I don’t disagree at all. My point is I think that’s a problem, and I hate that college is touted as some land of opportunity during the recruiting process, then most schools just put these guys in easy classes so they can focus on sports. Then they haven’t gained any real opportunity that college offers for life after sports.

Billy, this is something I've wondered about when we see new coaching regimes come in and (we hope) step up the recruiting game, much of this taking place in a narrow window of time, during which said coaching staff probably knows little about the various degree granting programs and the marketability of them in the workplace. And I'm not saying, "hey, take up accounting" to a person who make not have the desire or ability for it just because it has obvious earnings potential. 

I doubt if many people outside of my fairly small circle are aware that knowledge and credentials available from the UNT Department of Geography and the Environment can provide meaningful work and an upward career trajectory, when combined with skills in Geographic Information Systems. I can still remember when down in the City of Dallas Emergency Operations Center, while providing staff training, one of the EOC staff bringing a group of high schoolers in to show the scope of that work, and informing them that the academic credentials could be acquired "just up the road" at UNT.

Overall though, I agree with the need for better counseling of the sort which helps any student, whether athlete or not, prepare for a college career that lays the groundwork for success after school and athletics. And it's probably worthwhile for schools to consider how to teach students how to present themselves. But it's not hard nowadays to notice many, whose behavior would have been ill mannered at one time, apparently successful by current standards. But if you're someone just asking for any kind of work, it may be best to show good judgment, rather than just reaching the rather low bar seen on much social media content. 

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16 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

Right. That has been my main point this whole thread. Easier classes for the students, easier to boost the program GPA, and more time to have their student athletes focused on winning games, helping the coaches’ careers.

It’s a win-win until that student-athlete goes into the job market after their playing career ends. By then there is no more scholarship to go get a different degree.

It’s not on coaches to pick majors for their student athletes, I just want us properly educating them on what these degrees mean and helping them make the best decision they feel for their future beyond athletics. I think we could do a better job there, is my prevailing point.

I doubt anyone disagrees with your first two statements.  

An integral part of recruiting is selling a dream.  

I doubt NT would be remotely competitive recruiting if they go through an academic qualification evaluation process with potential players.    

 We believe you can start almost immediately, but we are going to have to hid you in throwaway classes and if you don't make it in the pros, you are not going to be qualified for much of anything. 

The facts are there are very few difficult curriculums  for any students.    It is passing grades if you bother to show up, because we have to keep those students numbers up to fund everything.   Most degrees are a function of persistence, much more than intellect. 

I have hired hundreds and reviewed thousands of resumes, etc. before retirement.   It got to be almost refreshing to see a few b's creep in among the a's.

Edited by GrandGreen
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1 hour ago, eulessismore said:

Billy, this is something I've wondered about when we see new coaching regimes come in and (we hope) step up the recruiting game, much of this taking place in a narrow window of time, during which said coaching staff probably knows little about the various degree granting programs and the marketability of them in the workplace. And I'm not saying, "hey, take up accounting" to a person who make not have the desire or ability for it just because it has obvious earnings potential. 

I doubt if many people outside of my fairly small circle are aware that knowledge and credentials available from the UNT Department of Geography and the Environment can provide meaningful work and an upward career trajectory, when combined with skills in Geographic Information Systems. I can still remember when down in the City of Dallas Emergency Operations Center, while providing staff training, one of the EOC staff bringing a group of high schoolers in to show the scope of that work, and informing them that the academic credentials could be acquired "just up the road" at UNT.

Overall though, I agree with the need for better counseling of the sort which helps any student, whether athlete or not, prepare for a college career that lays the groundwork for success after school and athletics. And it's probably worthwhile for schools to consider how to teach students how to present themselves. But it's not hard nowadays to notice many, whose behavior would have been ill mannered at one time, apparently successful by current standards. But if you're someone just asking for any kind of work, it may be best to show good judgment, rather than just reaching the rather low bar seen on much social media content. 

Boom, GIS and Environmental Science can be used in so many areas, still a niche group but growing 🙂

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