Jim Gush new LB Coach

[MeanGreenATO]

1 hour ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Slow news day in cincy? 

Did Sigma Chi lose the 2010 Intramural Flag Football championship? (the answer is yes to both, btw). Heck of a call on my ID, though. Don't think that's happened on GMG yet. 

[TheReal_jayD]

42 minutes ago, MeanGreenATO said:

Did Sigma Chi lose the 2010 Intramural Flag Football championship? (the answer is yes to both, btw). Heck of a call on my ID, though. Don't think that's happened on GMG yet. 

😂 well played! I knew a lot of ATOs in school. Very few would have so much journalistic expertise in the Baylor situation. Made it easy to narrow down! 

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

2 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

I don’t see how [someone perceived to be power] possibly prevent a [young person - not in power] from going to the police. 

The Milgram Experiment will be shocking to you then... Oh the human experience. So flawed. 

[Cr1028]

18 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

The Milgram Experiment will be shocking to you then... Oh the human experience. So flawed. 

We aren’t talking about these young ladies’ professor or employer. We are talking about an unrelated third party who would only have knowledge if the victim told them or the offender told them. 
 

What would it take to satisfy you? You make it clear that you feel some justice needs to be served on a personal level. So, what must be done to these men, independent of factual evidence of criminal conduct, to make your life better so you can feel at peace and move on? And unless you are a victim of an act directly perpetrated by these men, don’t say oh but the victims. I’m sayin what would it take for you specifically as someone unaffected, uninvolved, and only informed by what media outlets think you should know to sell their content.

[97and03]

If someone reports a crime to a coach, that coach has a moral and legal responsibility to report the crime. The institutional failures you mention include coaches, who are part of said institution. Just because the institutional culture is to cover up wrong doing to keep players out of trouble doesn’t make it right to do so. 
I know I should stop being shocked by some of the lack of common decency displayed by some here but those who will defend Baylor coaches at all costs still shock me. 
If coaches were shielded as stated above, then we don’t know which coaches turned a blind eye to criminal behavior. That is what makes Baylor hires concerning and probably why some had a tough time getting FBS gigs. I would think the Wallis hire would give some of you pause about trying to be the school that rehabilitates the Baylor crew. That worked out about as poorly as it could have and directly hurt the team on the field and brought negative PR. 
I am not so happy about these Baylor hires and to me it shows Seth might be getting desperate. 
I just think about my own daughter and how I would want her treated when she goes off to college. 

[UNTLifer]

Regarding Wallis, if memory serves me correctly, the allegations were not brought against him until after he was hired, not before.

[UNTLifer]

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article214919825.html

[TIgreen01]

The Ukwachaku kid is the kid from Boise, if I’m not mistaken.  The one accused of abuse while there, then kicked out (or conveniently helped to leave).  If the Gush bio is correct, and I’m reading it right, he was defensive recruiting coordinator while at Baylor.  That is of particular concern here because Ukwachaku was not an unknown commodity and Baylor brought him in anyway.  They chose to take a very big risk in bringing that kid in and that recruitment was what arguably brought more scrutiny around the program, that ultimately exploded into the scandal we all know.  If Gush was the guy driving that kid’s recruitment, I’m more than a little concerned.

Edited January 29, 2021 by TIgreen01

[Cr1028]

21 minutes ago, TIgreen01 said:

The Ukwachaku kid is the kid from Boise, if I’m not mistaken.  The one accused of abuse while there, then kicked out (or conveniently helped to leave).  If the Gush bio is correct, and I’m reading it right, he was defensive recruiting coordinator while at Baylor.  That is of particular concern here because Ukwachaku was not an unknown commodity and Baylor brought him in anyway.  They chose to take a very big risk in bringing that kid in and that recruitment was what arguably brought more scrutiny around the program, that ultimately exploded into the scandal we all know.  If Gush was the guy driving that kid’s recruitment, I’m more than a little concerned.

We will never know but why would Petersen try to help facilitate getting him to Baylor if he was a threat to women everywhere. https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/8/21/9189025/baylor-boise-state-art-briles-sam-ukwuachu

[97and03]

7 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

We will never know but why would Petersen try to help facilitate getting him to Baylor if he was a threat to women everywhere. https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/8/21/9189025/baylor-boise-state-art-briles-sam-ukwuachu

That article also says Boise refused to endorse reinstating his eligibility and that Peterson claims to have given Briles the backstory. 
It also shows or new DC on record as saying the player had “some issues” to work and and hoped he would be back soon. 

[Cr1028]

33 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

If someone reports a crime to a coach, that coach has a moral and legal responsibility to report the crime. The institutional failures you mention include coaches, who are part of said institution. Just because the institutional culture is to cover up wrong doing to keep players out of trouble doesn’t make it right to do so. 
I know I should stop being shocked by some of the lack of common decency displayed by some here but those who will defend Baylor coaches at all costs still shock me. 
If coaches were shielded as stated above, then we don’t know which coaches turned a blind eye to criminal behavior. That is what makes Baylor hires concerning and probably why some had a tough time getting FBS gigs. I would think the Wallis hire would give some of you pause about trying to be the school that rehabilitates the Baylor crew. That worked out about as poorly as it could have and directly hurt the team on the field and brought negative PR. 
I am not so happy about these Baylor hires and to me it shows Seth might be getting desperate. 
I just think about my own daughter and how I would want her treated when she goes off to college. 

I understand your concern as a father but what if you were the coach. What if one of your student-athletes who you recruited for years, spent time in his living room with his family telling them many times how you would take care of their son, who you have made sure completed all coursework needed to maintain their path to graduation, worked with through rain, cold, wind, extreme Texas sun and heat, wins and losses. Someone you have looked in the eye and said, “I believe in you son”. What do you do when someone you have never met or their parent come into your office (rather than a police office) and tell you how they have been victimized by one of your student-athletes who you feel are your family. You subsequently ask the student-athlete and he  looks you in the eyes and says coach I never and would would never do that. What do you do? Tell him, “tough stuff bud, you’re off the team” or do you say “I believe you son”? Hindsight is always 20/20 and it is easy to sit here and be altruistic when we were never in that situation. What if it were your son that were accused? You just cast him out with the trash, over an accusation? An accusation that for God knows what reason didn’t merit a trip to the police department first? I will tell you this, if I ever here if my wife, sister, or daughter being forcibly sexually assaulted, my first call is to the police. Call one, I don’t give a f about the perpetrator being on any football team.

[Cr1028]

1 minute ago, 97and03 said:

That article also says Boise refused to endorse reinstating his eligibility and that Peterson claims to have given Briles the backstory. 
It also shows or new DC on record as saying the player had “some issues” to work and and hoped he would be back soon. 

He was not ineligible, they didn’t sign off for him to be immediately eligible at Baylor which isn’t allowed in an FBS to FBS transfer at that time anyhow so it had zero effect and may have been their standard procedure.

[Cr1028]

People are very quick to accuse but where was the front page story that this guy was falsely accused? Nowhere because it doesn’t fit the Briles entire staff and roster were vermin line they would have you believe. This man’s life and career, literally millions of dollars were lost based on an accusation. There is no recourse for him, he can’t get those millions out of his accuser, so he is left wondering the rest of his life “what if”. 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-shawn-oakman-baylor-20200715-xc2sx5wyefcy7mrol3zcrksc3a-story.html

[97and03]

https://www.texasmonthly.com/article/silence-at-baylor/

[97and03]

14 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

I understand your concern as a father but what if you were the coach. What if one of your student-athletes who you recruited for years, spent time in his living room with his family telling them many times how you would take care of their son, who you have made sure completed all coursework needed to maintain their path to graduation, worked with through rain, cold, wind, extreme Texas sun and heat, wins and losses. Someone you have looked in the eye and said, “I believe in you son”. What do you do when someone you have never met or their parent come into your office (rather than a police office) and tell you how they have been victimized by one of your student-athletes who you feel are your family. You subsequently ask the student-athlete and he  looks you in the eyes and says coach I never and would would never do that. What do you do? Tell him, “tough stuff bud, you’re off the team” or do you say “I believe you son”? Hindsight is always 20/20 and it is easy to sit here and be altruistic when we were never in that situation. What if it were your son that were accused? You just cast him out with the trash, over an accusation? An accusation that for God knows what reason didn’t merit a trip to the police department first? I will tell you this, if I ever here if my wife, sister, or daughter being forcibly sexually assaulted, my first call is to the police. Call one, I don’t give a f about the perpetrator being on any football team.

As a former university employee I know that if I was told that a student raped another student, I would be obligated to contact the university police and Dean of Students immediately. Just because it is a football player doesn’t change that. There is no grey area. It doesn’t matter if I call them “son” or if I recruited them. 
Attitudes like the above is exactly what led to Baylor’s downfall. This wasn’t the first or only case either. And in both cases the Texas Monthly article mentions, it was the victim who lost their scholarship. Once the prosecutor indicted the player, he should have been off the team. (I would argue much sooner but an indictment is a pretty serious phase and not just an “accusation.”) Instead Bennett was telling people to expect him to start in the fall. It shows a lack of judgment and morality on behalf of that staff. And I am not fully comfortable with bringing in these coaches. 

[UNTLifer]

The article I posted in another thread that was the Phil Bennett interview with the Star Telegram addresses the transfer. I in no way condone what occurred at Baylor but I also believe these men have proven themselves at other institutions since then. The true story will never be known because it varies depending on who is telling it. 

[UNTLifer]

9 hours ago, 97and03 said:

As a former university employee I know that if I was told that a student raped another student, I would be obligated to contact the university police and Dean of Students immediately. Just because it is a football player doesn’t change that. There is no grey area. It doesn’t matter if I call them “son” or if I recruited them. 
Attitudes like the above is exactly what led to Baylor’s downfall. This wasn’t the first or only case either. And in both cases the Texas Monthly article mentions, it was the victim who lost their scholarship. Once the prosecutor indicted the player, he should have been off the team. (I would argue much sooner but an indictment is a pretty serious phase and not just an “accusation.”) Instead Bennett was telling people to expect him to start in the fall. It shows a lack of judgment and morality on behalf of that staff. And I am not fully comfortable with bringing in these coaches. 

Bennett stated that he would let due process take place but from what he knew, he thought he would start in the fall. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by UNTLifer

[El Paso Eagle]

13 minutes ago, Cr1028 said:

People are very quick to accuse but where was the front page story that this guy was falsely accused? Nowhere because it doesn’t fit the Briles entire staff and roster were vermin line they would have you believe. This man’s life and career, literally millions of dollars were lost based on an accusation. There is no recourse for him, he can’t get those millions out of his accuser, so he is left wondering the rest of his life “what if”. 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-shawn-oakman-baylor-20200715-xc2sx5wyefcy7mrol3zcrksc3a-story.html

There are probably many here who think the Duke Lacrosse team was not punished enough.

[BillySee58]

5 hours ago, El Paso Eagle said:

It has been mentioned. On this board ever time a coach who was at Baylor at the time is mentioned there is divide. There are many here who seem to believe anyone who coached at Baylor during that time should never be allowed to coach again.

This is such a straw man. No one has ever said this, but people have said things along the lines of being curious about the vetting process on these guys. I don’t understand why that’s always met with such negative reaction on here or the insinuation that it’s akin to calling these assistant coaches guilty. Concern seems understandable given the horrific extent of the Baylor situation within the football team, and after the previous coach we hired from that Baylor staff was arrested after an investigation before he could coach a game I don’t understand why people treat it as a taboo subject.

As the “fool me once” saying goes, if we’re going down this path a second/third time, isn’t it fair to be curious about the vetting process here? Because that’s what I’ve seen/said myself, and I haven’t seen or said anything along the lines that we shouldn’t have hired them or they shouldn’t be allowed to coach again, like you’re insinuating.

7 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

As someone with family in the Waco area, they have said from Day 1 that this was an institutional issue and the Briles and staff were scapegoats.  Take that for what it's worth.  There is a great article/interview with Bennett in the Fort Worth Star Telegram where he addresses it.

He has personally admitted fault in the situation and the investigation found him at fault. Yes it was clearly an institutional issue, and the reports make it clear this did go deeper than football and the University did try to paint this as a football specific issue rather than a University issue, so that does make Briles a scapegoat in that sense. But that doesn’t mean he was not at fault of his own.

From Briles directly:

“So, I understand that I made some mistakes, and for that I'm sorry. But I'm not trying to plead for people's sympathy. I'm just stating that, 'Hey, I made some mistakes. I was wrong. I'm sorry. I'm gonna learn. I'm gonna do better."

From the investigation:

The review, conducted by the Philadelphia law firm Pepper Hamilton, found particular fault with Briles' program, saying, "there are significant concerns about the tone and culture within Baylor's football program as it relates to accountability for all forms of student-athlete misconduct."

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17489466/art-briles-says-sorry-happened-watch-baylor-bears

[Cr1028]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/8/21/9185837/baylor-football-player-sam-ukwuachu

A lot in here that I never realized. The police were called from the hospital so it makes more sense to me now that they didn’t go to a football coach before the police. Also, it seems Uwachachu was never on the roster and never suited up for Baylor as a football player so is it fair to put that on athletic administration rather than academic or campus administration? The coaches hoped things would work out in his legal battle and they’d get him as a football player but that isn’t the same as trying to cover up his actions that were already reported to Waco PD.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Cr1028
Thanks Adler

[El Paso Eagle]

8 hours ago, BillySee58 said:

This is such a straw man. No one has ever said this, but people have said things along the lines of being curious about the vetting process on these guys. I don’t understand why that’s always met with such negative reaction on here or the insinuation that it’s akin to calling these assistant coaches guilty. Concern seems understandable given the horrific extent of the Baylor situation within the football team, and after the previous coach we hired from that Baylor staff was arrested after an investigation before he could coach a game I don’t understand why people treat it as a taboo subject.

As the “fool me once” saying goes, if we’re going down this path a second/third time, isn’t it fair to be curious about the vetting process here? Because that’s what I’ve seen/said myself, and I haven’t seen or said anything along the lines that we shouldn’t have hired them or they shouldn’t be allowed to coach again, like you’re insinuating.

He has personally admitted fault in the situation and the investigation found him at fault. Yes it was clearly an institutional issue, and the reports make it clear this did go deeper than football and the University did try to paint this as a football specific issue rather than a University issue, so that does make Briles a scapegoat in that sense. But that doesn’t mean he was not at fault of his own.

From Briles directly:

“So, I understand that I made some mistakes, and for that I'm sorry. But I'm not trying to plead for people's sympathy. I'm just stating that, 'Hey, I made some mistakes. I was wrong. I'm sorry. I'm gonna learn. I'm gonna do better."

From the investigation:

The review, conducted by the Philadelphia law firm Pepper Hamilton, found particular fault with Briles' program, saying, "there are significant concerns about the tone and culture within Baylor's football program as it relates to accountability for all forms of student-athlete misconduct."

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/17489466/art-briles-says-sorry-happened-watch-baylor-bears

Agree to disagree. Across this board not only hirings here but other places when Baylor coaches are mentioned there are always people complaining they should not get hired again

It has been reported that in vetting TW the University checked his references and contacted 12 people. How much is enough? I guess you can always say if something went wrong the process was not good enough

Edited January 29, 2021 by El Paso Eagle

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

11 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

We aren’t talking about these young ladies’ professor or employer. We are talking about an unrelated third party who would only have knowledge if the victim told them or the offender told them. 
 

What would it take to satisfy you? You make it clear that you feel some justice needs to be served on a personal level. So, what must be done to these men, independent of factual evidence of criminal conduct, to make your life better so you can feel at peace and move on? And unless you are a victim of an act directly perpetrated by these men, don’t say oh but the victims. I’m sayin what would it take for you specifically as someone unaffected, uninvolved, and only informed by what media outlets think you should know to sell their content.

I really have no idea what you are talking about 👆🏾. Like not at all. 

I have no personal vendetta against these hires and don't need justice served 'on a personal level.'  I've never claimed anything remotely close to that. 

If you want to lump me into a category - it would be NIMBY.  Let someone else rehabilitate these coaches reputations like Southwestern Christian University with Coach Bliss. I don't think North Texas is in the desperation category of needing to throw a hail Mary. 

Now - since you are worried about my personal feelings - I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to not cast a rape victim in the same light as the Duke accuser. I would LOVE to recognize that as an institution Baylor is very suspect in many decades of work. They have built up a healthy dose of deserved skepticism. 

I would LOVE to not have such simple strawman arguments about skeptics desire to make them never have a job or to only hire choir boys to coach... or that we trust strippers from Duke lacrosse over priests... or whatever else you guys like to throw out there. It is just absurd. No one, not a single person here has said that stuff.  

I would love people to stop making excuses for "but he was not enrolled at school, so the staff is clear." Who the hell brought the kid to Waco? Not the admissions office.

Sure - I have simple requests in my school fandom and well wishes and how I vote with my dollars. I don't want my recruiters to cheat. I don't want them to lie. I don't want them to recruit players that have incredible talent, but pending rape trials. I don't want players that were kicked other teams for ILLEGAL activities. I will never want any of that. It's fairly simple. I would rather be 6-6 with an ethical stance than 11-1 and sitting on a powder keg or leaving a trail of dead basketball players and raped co-eds. Therefore, when we hire someone that is around that stuff and was a part of it (at lest tangentially) - I give it a side eye. There is *nothing* personal there. I am not dragging a guillotine from my attic. 

That's end of it for me. 

The hires are made - it is done. I hope it goes better than Tate Wallis. Truly. For everyone, yes, that includes the coaches. 

 

[TheReal_jayD]

Kendal Briles- FAU, Houston, Florida State and Arkansas

Randy Clements- Houston, Ole Miss and Florida State

Brian Norwood- Tulsa, K State, Navy and UCLA

Chris Achuff - Syracuse

Carlton Buckels- Tulsa

Jeff Lebby UCF and Ole Miss

Casey Horny - Texas

Calvin Lowry - Tulsa

Beau Trahan - Tulsa

Here is the others that Coached from the Aft Briles Baylor staff that are currently coaching at the FBS level. All have went on and had success. And the rape culture hasn't followed.

7 minutes ago, SteaminWillieBeamin said:

The hires are made - it is done. I hope it goes better than Tate Wallis. Truly. For everyone, yes, that includes the coaches. 

 

Do you have an update on the Tate Wallis situation?

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

9 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Here is the others that Coached from the Aft Briles Baylor staff that are currently coaching at the FBS level. All have went on and had success. And the rape culture hasn't followed

That's awesome for those coaches - happy for them. Except those Tulsa coaches - having a bowl riot on their hands. (I joke)

Tate Wallis is not on that list. Nor do I have an update - your sarcasm is duly noted. 

I hope that in a couple years you can add more to your list that we hired here at North Texas after our great success.  

[MeanGreenATO]

@TheReal_jayD, I think that's part of the point I made earlier. Because Baylor wasn't really transparent about anything involving its investigation, it's impossible to know who was at fault for what happened. Briles got rolled because he was the head coach. 

And trust me, I went back and forth with Lane when Kendal got his first job on that FAU staff in '17 and he literally shrugged his shoulders and we kept walking past each other. So the criticism isn't just reserved for North Texas.