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*Updated* Kevin Sumlin: Deal (Steal) of the Century


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Why does anyone really think Littrell was offered the KSU job?  I think that is all agent spin.  True or not, it has nothing to do with the current situation. 

Littrell is going nowhere until after next season at the earliest.  So we can have at least another year, of moaning about  how much he is paid versus his value. 

The only thing that can change this scenario is for NT to start to win.  

Last year was an anomaly because of the coronavirus.  IMO and I believe most others, no one should be terminated because of performance issues.  Add that it is highly unlikely that NT would spend the millions necessary for a buyout. 

Littrell is going to have to fix the defense.  This is a coaching issue.  It is not a player talent issue when there are holes in the defense that repeatedly allow ultra long runs. 

With even a close to average defense, this team can win a lot of games next year.   

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UPDATE: - Added SL's Buyout (TheColonyEagle Suggestion) - Increased Sumlin's base salary in Years One and Two (Mean Green Matt Suggestion) *Updates in Green   Just wanted to get some t

Lets be honest. Littrell isn't going to fix anything. Seth focused all of his energy on skill position player and ignored the lines until the last two recruiting classes. It's the reason Mason Fi

I want Littrell to turn it around and win a bunch of games.

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16 minutes ago, xyresic said:

His 2020 record 0 wins 5 losses. Literally fired after getting beat by their biggest rival 70-7. If we are going to make a move I think we can do better than a guy that had one great season at A&M (who has more budget and resources than anyone) and has seen his number of Wins decline in each of his past eight seasons as a head coach. He completely lost his Arizona team. We will pass on your burner account and steal of the century.

The budget argument doesn’t work in the SEC. they all have basically the same....maybe he just wasn’t a fit for Arizona. Who knows. 
 

but I do know U of Houston’s modern rise to national prominence started with him....

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1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Why does anyone really think Littrell was offered the KSU job?  I think that is all agent spin.  True or not, it has nothing to do with the current situation. 

Littrell is going nowhere until after next season at the earliest.  So we can have at least another year, of moaning about  how much he is paid versus his value. 

The only thing that can change this scenario is for NT to start to win.  

Last year was an anomaly because of the coronavirus.  IMO and I believe most others, no one should be terminated because of performance issues.  Add that it is highly unlikely that NT would spend the millions necessary for a buyout. 

Littrell is going to have to fix the defense.  This is a coaching issue.  It is not a player talent issue when there are holes in the defense that repeatedly allow ultra long runs. 

With even a close to average defense, this team can win a lot of games next year.   

Lets be honest. Littrell isn't going to fix anything.

Seth focused all of his energy on skill position player and ignored the lines until the last two recruiting classes. It's the reason Mason Fine had to be scraped off the turf throughout his hall of fame career at UNT. While we have more talent on the lines now, they still won't be good enough to win in the trenches against the better G5 programs.

Next season..

SMU with their new proven Oklahoma transfer QB, will stomp a mud hole in us.

UTSA, a team that didn't even have a DC for the second half of their 2020 season, will beat on us like a rented mule.

And, LA Tech will extend their domination of us. Littrell is 1-4 against the poor small school from Ruston Louisiana. 

Seth Littrell has not beaten a team with a winning record since the middle of the 2018 season, and if he is allowed to coach UNT in 2021, he won't beat one next season either.

Under Littrell we should beat a few bottom feeders and an FCS program next season, but we will not contend for the division title. And, if we happen to back into another bowl game, we will get thumped again. Littrell is stubborn. He believes his system. He believes that proper execution of his system is the formula for success. He is too stubborn to realize that the bulk of his system's success comes against weak competition, or in games after UNT has been put away. His stubbornness is the reason our team is bad at in game adjustments. Littrell just wants to keep doing what he does. Which is why we will continue to keep losing.

In December of next year, if Littrell is still our coach, than we will be lamenting another losing season. And, I will be typing more of the same facts, and some on this board will probably still be typing the same tired excuses. 

Edited by Side Show Joe
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11 minutes ago, TheColonyEagle said:

The budget argument doesn’t work in the SEC. they all have basically the same....maybe he just wasn’t a fit for Arizona. Who knows. 
 

but I do know U of Houston’s modern rise to national prominence started with him....

Your budget comment is not true, A&M spends much more than the Miss. schools, Mizzou, Vandy etc.

Sure the SEC is stacked but by any financial metric they are always at or near the top.

Let’s look at the facts: 

- Multi million buyouts from his last two jobs for underperforming expectations.

- lost 12 straight, including ending on a 63 point blowout

- 9 total wins in 3 seasons at Arizona

- Briles, not Sumlin took UH to the next level

Edited by xyresic
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5 minutes ago, xyresic said:

Briles, not Sumlin took UH to the next level

Sumlin did some very nice things while at Houston.  He also recruited Jonny Foutball and had 2 Fuve star QBs while at A&M.  The guy is a fabulous recruiter.  Just needs to be in Texas.  It’s hard to recruit to zona.

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8 minutes ago, xyresic said:

Your budget comment is not true, A&M spends much more than the Miss. schools, Mizzou, Vandy etc.

Sure the SEC is stacked but by any financial metric they are always at or near the top.

Let’s look at the facts: 

- Multi million buyouts from his last two jobs for underperforming expectations.

- lost 12 straight, including ending on a 63 point blowout

- 9 total wins in 3 seasons at Arizona

- Briles, not Sumlin took UH to the next level


Ok I’ll give you Briles but Sumlin had them ranked in the top 15 if memory serves. 

 

I don’t think his record at Arizona has anything to do with us

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13 minutes ago, Harry said:

Sumlin did some very nice things while at Houston.  He also recruited Jonny Foutball and had 2 Fuve star QBs while at A&M.  The guy is a fabulous recruiter.  Just needs to be in Texas.  It’s hard to recruit to zona.

Agreed, after his last year at UH and first at A&M he was probably the top young coach in the game. Everything since that time has hurt his resume.

His recruiting at zona was worse than his predecessors as well. They had some top 35-40 classes before him.

Edited by xyresic
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32 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Mordecai has proven nothing. 

He is certainly more proven than either Aune or Bean.

Mordecai has a QB rating of 174.4 this season, while Aune finished with a rating of 148.4 and Bean finished with a rating of 145, despite Littrell nationally ranked offense. Mordecai had limited snaps, but those were also against mostly P5 competition too.

Do you think Littrell is going to beat SMU's retooled team next season? Cause I'm willing to say we will lose again next season. Nothing Littrell is doing to improve matches up to what our adversaries are doing. There have been red flags for years. We need to be honest about what we are in for next season.

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In thinking about this a bit more today and reading some of the feedback, I've attached a Five Year Prospectus to evaluate the potential financials of the deal.  In doing so, it raises an interesting prospect of having more money which could be added to the assistant coaches pool, to the tune of $457,000 per year (averaged out over five years).  This could go along way to bringing in a quality defensive coordinator and/or offensive coordinator or position coach.

For example, Mark Snyder who was Sumlin's D-Coordinator in 2012 at Texas A&M that beat #1 ranked Alabama in November (in Tuscaloosa) and beat OU in the Cotton Bowl, is currently the D-Line/ST Coord at Florida State University making $450,000 (Info link here).  Our current D-Coord is making $350,000 per other posts on this board, with an additional $450,000 per year to spread around, you could really envision a scenario where orchestrating this deal with Sumlin can set up a two (or three) for the price of one scenario where we are able to add an experienced coordinator in addition to Sumlin.

The big question for me is do you believe SL will have a substantially better season next year?  If you do, then all good, stick with SL.

If not, then you're in a position next year where you're looking for a new HC and will be competing with other programs for quality HC replacements. 

Right now, with the financials being what they are (Sumlin's buyout language at Arizona) and the fact that we would more than likely be his only suitor for a G5 HC position, and the best considering his recruiting ties and experience in Texas/Oklahoma and propensity to recruit Louisiana, then this is the deal and move to make.  

This deal won't be around three months from now and frankly for UNT may not ever come around again.  All things considered, this a coach a few years removed from his sixth consecutive winning season as a head coach in the SEC, with some big wins against ranked opponents and in big time bowl games, who has coached a Heisman Trophy winner, and in his fourth year at UH with his recruits, went 12-1.

To me, the closest comparison to this would be the Lane Kiffin hire at FAU and all things equal, Sumlin is a more experienced and qualified hire at the same point and we know what Kiffin did at FAU.

Making this move would be similar to what happened to Sumlin at Texas A&M, when Jimbo became available, they felt it would be an upgrade from an already good coach and they made the move.  This is what we would be doing here, it's not personal against SL, it's business. 

Thanks for the continued feedback, I'll continue to update the original post as necessary with your suggestions but I think between that and the attached chart, it illustrates what could go down as a pretty savvy move on and off the field to take us to another level over the next five years.

 

Five Year Prospectus SL vs Sumlin.png

Edited by Pseudo Nym
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10 minutes ago, Pseudo Nym said:

In thinking about this a bit more today and reading some of the feedback, I've attached a Five Year Prospectus to evaluate the potential financials of the deal.  In doing so, it raises an interesting prospect of having more money which could be added to the assistant coaches pool, to the tune of $457,000 per year (averaged out over five years).  This could go along way to bringing in a quality defensive coordinator and/or offensive coordinator or position coach.

For example, Mark Snyder who was Sumlin's D-Coordinator in 2012 at Texas A&M that beat #1 ranked Alabama in November (in Tuscaloosa) and beat OU in the Cotton Bowl, is currently the D-Line/ST Coord at Florida State University making $450,000 (Info link here).  Our current D-Coord is making $350,000 per other posts on this board, with an additional $450,000 per year to spread around, you could really envision a scenario where orchestrating this deal with Sumlin can set up a two (or three) for the price of one scenario where we are able to add an experienced coordinator in addition to Sumlin.

The big question for me is do you believe SL will have a substantially better season next year?  If you do, then all good, stick with SL.

If not, then you're in a position next year where you're looking for a new HC and will be competing with other programs for quality HC replacements. 

Right now, with the financials being what they are (Sumlin's buyout language at Arizona) and the fact that we would more than likely be his only suitor for a G5 HC position, and the best considering his recruiting ties and experience in Texas/Oklahoma and propensity to recruit Louisiana, then this is the deal and move to make.  

This deal won't be around three months from now and frankly for UNT may not ever come around again.  All things considered, this a coach a few years removed from his sixth consecutive winning season as a head coach in the SEC, with some big wins against ranked opponents and in big time bowl games, who has coached a Heisman Trophy winner, and in his fourth year at UH with his recruits, went 12-1.

To me, the closest comparison to this would be the Lane Kiffin hire at FAU and all things equal, Sumlin is a more experienced and qualified hire at the same point and we know what Kiffin did at FAU.

Making this move would be similar to what happened to Sumlin at Texas A&M, when Jimbo became available, they felt it would be an upgrade from an already good coach and they made the move.  This is what we would be doing here, it's not personal against SL, it's business. 

Thanks for the continued feedback, I'll continue to update the original post as necessary with your suggestions but I think between that and the attached chart, it illustrates what could go down as a pretty savvy move on and off the field to take us to another level over the next five years.

 

Five Year Prospectus SL vs Sumlin.png

Sign me up.

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5 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

Why does anyone really think Littrell was offered the KSU job?  I think that is all agent spin.  True or not, it has nothing to do with the current situation. 

Littrell is going nowhere until after next season at the earliest.  So we can have at least another year, of moaning about  how much he is paid versus his value. 

The only thing that can change this scenario is for NT to start to win.  

Last year was an anomaly because of the coronavirus.  IMO and I believe most others, no one should be terminated because of performance issues.  Add that it is highly unlikely that NT would spend the millions necessary for a buyout. 

Littrell is going to have to fix the defense.  This is a coaching issue.  It is not a player talent issue when there are holes in the defense that repeatedly allow ultra long runs. 

With even a close to average defense, this team can win a lot of games next year.   

Seth was not offered by K State. Smoke screen for publicity.

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It's a moot point since SL isn't going anywhere, but if we were considering giving SL his pink slip, I'd be on board with Charlie Strong, Sumlin, or Scot Frost even. I just don't think we should limit ourselves to "recently fired" coaches. We need to have the mindset that we can hire coaches away who are still employed.

 

Guys don't just look for the girl who was "recently let go" from her previous relationship.  It's ok to have a higher opinion of yourself to go for the girl that everyone wants. 

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2 minutes ago, Rudy said:

It's a moot point since SL isn't going anywhere, but if we were considering giving SL his pink slip, I'd be on board with Charlie Strong, Sumlin, or Scot Frost even. I just don't think we should limit ourselves to "recently fired" coaches. We need to have the mindset that we can hire coaches away who are still employed.

 

Guys don't just look for the girl who was "recently let go" from her previous relationship.  It's ok to have a higher opinion of yourself to go for the girl that everyone wants. 

Strong...meh

Sumlin....too much recent failure

Frost...don’t see him leaving Nebraska. 

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3 hours ago, Side Show Joe said:

He is certainly more proven than either Aune or Bean.

Mordecai has a QB rating of 174.4 this season, 

He’s thrown forty passes this year. 
 

He’s thrown 70 in three years. 
 

I stand by my original statement. 

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Briles second chance!  You want to win some ball games and recruit Texas, he’s your guy. Guarantee you he will win ball games and CHAMPIONSHIPS. I understand some concerns about his past but everyone deserves a second chance. We are all far from saints, we’ve all made mistakes at some point in our lives. He would be a great hire. 

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1 hour ago, UNTLifer said:

He’s thrown forty passes this year. 
 

He’s thrown 70 in three years. 
 

I stand by my original statement. 

 

Like I stated, while Mordecai has fewer games played, it was against mostly P5 caliber opposition. 

Do you really think Aune and Bean are better than Mordecai, and we will beat SMU next season? 

A win over next a Mordecai lead SMU team will be a long shot at best. Every reasonable Mean Green fan knows where our program is headed if we continue under Littrell. This train wreck began 2 seasons ago, and will continue until our administration gets serious about football, like they did with basketball. 

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2 hours ago, MeanGreen01 said:

Briles second chance!  You want to win some ball games and recruit Texas, he’s your guy. Guarantee you he will win ball games and CHAMPIONSHIPS. I understand some concerns about his past but everyone deserves a second chance. We are all far from saints, we’ve all made mistakes at some point in our lives. He would be a great hire. 

You have obviously never met the SJW’s of North Texas.  You would need to break through the picket lines to get into the stadium.  

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1 hour ago, Side Show Joe said:

 

Like I stated, while Mordecai has fewer games played, it was against mostly P5 caliber opposition. 

Do you really think Aune and Bean are better than Mordecai, and we will beat SMU next season? 

A win over next a Mordecai lead SMU team will be a long shot at best. Every reasonable Mean Green fan knows where our program is headed if we continue under Littrell. This train wreck began 2 seasons ago, and will continue until our administration gets serious about football, like they did with basketball. 

I don't think Bean is the answer, I think Aune is good enough to run this offense until Drummond, Kuehne or the transfer from Kentucky develops.  I just think we have much greater needs than QB.  I will stand by my statements from earlier regarding SL.  He has to produce next year when his recruits will have gained experience in the program.  He is out of excuses.  Defense will tell us how we perform as a team next year and that concerns me much more than the offense, the QB position and SL.

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12 hours ago, emmitt01 said:

You have obviously never met the SJW’s of North Texas.  You would need to break through the picket lines to get into the stadium.  

I don't think students taking a stand against rape culture as "SJW". It's taking a stand for decency and trying to impact where their money is going and how their school is perceived nationally. 

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