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for 190,000 Americans, 900,000 people worldwide it was a lot worse than mono or strep. they had a different "personal experience".  so maybe your colloquial evidence isn't really a great standard? 

Only thing I can speak for is my personal experience. My wife and I both had Covid. Did it suck. Yes. Was it worst than mono or strep throat. No. Should we have shut our country down. Absolutely not. 

100% are linked to Communist China.

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26 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

I have not. 75 of my colleagues did. 

 

19 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

how many died?

I get where you are both coming from. It is out there. Abundantly out there but the problem is perception. When you say someone has Covid, there is a connotation of severe illness and possible death (which is true for some). I think my employer has 2-3k employees and they try to keep tabs on Covid and we’ve had somewhere around 50 folks with the virus. Of the 50 I’d say at least 80% were described as asymptomaric or mildly symptomatic. It is out there and we all have to do what we are told for now til the powers that be say we have suppressed it enough to go back to a relatively normal protocol. 

In the meantime, please take proper precautions to slow the spread while also recognizing that being Covid-positive doesn’t always equate to being sick and that dying with Covid isn’t always the same as dying of Covid. 
 

George Floyd and Daniel Prude both died with Covid but I’d say almost everyone would argue they didn’t die of Covid.

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3 hours ago, TheReal_jayD said:

how many died?

I am not going down this road with you because you have proven to not have any ability to absorb facts or shown any scientific curiosity about this. 
 

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4 hours ago, 97and03 said:

I am not going down this road with you because you have proven to not have any ability to absorb facts or shown any scientific curiosity about this. 
 

Only thing I can speak for is my personal experience. My wife and I both had Covid. Did it suck. Yes. Was it worst than mono or strep throat. No. Should we have shut our country down. Absolutely not. 
 

Don’t tell me this crap is not politically motivated. It’s funny how they can link so many cases to sturgis bike rally. But none to the peaceful protest. 

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52 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Only thing I can speak for is my personal experience. My wife and I both had Covid. Did it suck. Yes. Was it worst than mono or strep throat. No. Should we have shut our country down. Absolutely not. 

for 190,000 Americans, 900,000 people worldwide it was a lot worse than mono or strep. they had a different "personal experience". 

so maybe your colloquial evidence isn't really a great standard?  

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2 hours ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Only thing I can speak for is my personal experience. My wife and I both had Covid. 

Were you able to trace how you guys contracted it? I’m genuinely curious if people know where they got it or folks are more on the side of heck, I could’ve gotten it at any of these places I went. I have never spoken to someone after they’ve experienced Covid and only know of one person I’ve known to contract it and she is my nephew’s girlfriend who i never talk to so I don’t have many references to ask.

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2 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

for 190,000 Americans, 900,000 people worldwide it was a lot worse than mono or strep. they had a different "personal experience". 

so maybe your colloquial evidence isn't really a great standard?  

While it is fair to say that many people had a very worse outcome, you cannot say that all 190k died OF Covid. There are reports of people contracting it when they were already in the hospital for something else, how did that happen if the healthcare providers are taking such precautions to prevent spread. Maybe the medical billing folks stopped by to give it to them. Additionally, there reports of folks dying by suicide and motorcycle accidents counting as Covid deaths. I feel these sorts of instances give an inaccurate gauge of the true severity of the illness. How can we truly know what we are up against when everyone that tells us about it has an angle they want you to see it from. 
 

I think a good gauge will be after this year is over to see if the total US death count for 2020 grew by an atypical amount from 2019. 
The death rate in the US grows between 1 and 3 percent per year. Since there were 2.814 million deaths in 2018, the expected range for 2020 should fall between 2.871 million and 2.985 million. If we are above 3 million US deaths for 2020 (and for the first time in history) , then and only then will I believe this is truly as bad as they say it is. But if it isn’t, it will be interesting to see how the deaths by cause relate to previous years. Does a Covid death also count as a smoking or heart disease death? Do those causes drop down because it was determined that Covid killed them? I’m really interested to see how the data all shakes out.

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2 hours ago, Cr1028 said:

While it is fair to say that many people had a very worse outcome, you cannot say that all 190k died OF Covid. There are reports of people contracting it when they were already in the hospital for something else, how did that happen if the healthcare providers are taking such precautions to prevent spread. Maybe the medical billing folks stopped by to give it to them. Additionally, there reports of folks dying by suicide and motorcycle accidents counting as Covid deaths. I feel these sorts of instances give an inaccurate gauge of the true severity of the illness. How can we truly know what we are up against when everyone that tells us about it has an angle they want you to see it from. 
 

I think a good gauge will be after this year is over to see if the total US death count for 2020 grew by an atypical amount from 2019. 
The death rate in the US grows between 1 and 3 percent per year. Since there were 2.814 million deaths in 2018, the expected range for 2020 should fall between 2.871 million and 2.985 million. If we are above 3 million US deaths for 2020 (and for the first time in history) , then and only then will I believe this is truly as bad as they say it is. But if it isn’t, it will be interesting to see how the deaths by cause relate to previous years. Does a Covid death also count as a smoking or heart disease death? Do those causes drop down because it was determined that Covid killed them? I’m really interested to see how the data all shakes out.

The latest figures indicate that excess deaths (e.g. deaths beyond the expected number in a given year) are greater than 200K in the USA.

 

I will only ask, if you think our "inflated" numbers are politically motivated, what is the reason for the high death figures around the world?  Are they also somehow politically motivated?  Note, while we have the highest death figure in total numbers, as a percentage of our population we're at #10 (counting countries with at least a million citizens).  So, some countries are currently doing worse than we are.  Do their scientists want their government leaders out too?

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10 hours ago, Censored by Laurie said:

for 190,000 Americans, 900,000 people worldwide it was a lot worse than mono or strep. they had a different "personal experience". 

so maybe your colloquial evidence isn't really a great standard?  

Of those numbers how many only had COVID? How many of those numbers got COVID while in hospital being treated for something else? How many hospitals mark COVID death for the patient with cancer to receive extra funding?

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25 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

Of those numbers how many only had COVID? How many of those numbers got COVID while in hospital being treated for something else? How many hospitals mark COVID death for the patient with cancer to receive extra funding?

You must be very blessed with people around you not suffering from anything else.   Good for you.

I believe, for most healthy people like yourself, the disease is not going to kill you (although there are certainly stories of perfectly healthy people catching it and dying).   That's what makes the mortality rate very low.

For those who have pre-existing conditions like heart disease, diabetes, COPD, cancer, obesity, etc...  this virus is very very dangerous.  Unfortunately, there are many in the US who suffer from these types of things, whether they're brought on by poor habits or through no faults of their own, these folks are "at risk".    People who are being treated for these pre-existing conditions usually aren't on death's door when they get Covid19.   But the virus is so effective, it can kill these folks.

So when you talk about the cancer patient who contracts Covid and dies... they may not have died, or if terminal, they may have died later.  But if they contract Covid19, and die of those symptoms instead of their cancer, they died of Covid19.  Plain and simple.   To write-off people like this, essentially saying "they were going to die anyway!!!!", is callous and self-centered.

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It's a coin flip to find someone above the age of 50 without any other health problems.  Obesity rates are about 40%, hypertension may be even more.  Those are often included on death certificates as contributing factors and pre-existing conditions.

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1 hour ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

You must be very blessed with people around you not suffering from anything else.   Good for you.

I believe, for most healthy people like yourself, the disease is not going to kill you (although there are certainly stories of perfectly healthy people catching it and dying).   That's what makes the mortality rate very low.

For those who have pre-existing conditions like heart disease, diabetes, COPD, cancer, obesity, etc...  this virus is very very dangerous.  Unfortunately, there are many in the US who suffer from these types of things, whether they're brought on by poor habits or through no faults of their own, these folks are "at risk".    People who are being treated for these pre-existing conditions usually aren't on death's door when they get Covid19.   But the virus is so effective, it can kill these folks.

So when you talk about the cancer patient who contracts Covid and dies... they may not have died, or if terminal, they may have died later.  But if they contract Covid19, and die of those symptoms instead of their cancer, they died of Covid19.  Plain and simple.   To write-off people like this, essentially saying "they were going to die anyway!!!!", is callous and self-centered.

My mom died when she was 39. My dad has diabetes. My grandma has diabetes.

 

I completely agree with all you are saying. But eventually we have to figure out is the fear of dying worth more than living?

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On 9/8/2020 at 6:41 AM, 97and03 said:

Reminder that close and sustained contact  without a mask is the most likely way to spread this virus. 

Sorry, but this dude is an economist.

Quote from the USAToday article:

"The results do not align with what we know for the impacts of the rally," state epidemiologist Josh Clayton said Tuesday.

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16 minutes ago, TheReal_jayD said:

My mom died when she was 39. My dad has diabetes. My grandma has diabetes.

 

I completely agree with all you are saying. But eventually we have to figure out is the fear of dying worth more than living?

For myself, I'm like you.   I'm not afraid of catching it because I'm fairly certain I would beat it without a hospital stay and whatnot. 

The issue is for people around me who aren't as healthy.   I can still transmit the virus to them, and I don't want to even chance that.  So mask, and lower-risk places it is.

And I'm living OK!   Heck, I still get to go to UNT football games!   Believe me, I miss high-fives, handshakes, hugs, seeing people's entire faces, and all that.   I know this will only be for a little while though, so it's not so bad.

And I know you're aware, but please be careful around your dad though, and even moreso around your grandma.   Even if they're doing well on meds or insulin, the virus can have a more profound impact on them.

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16 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

For myself, I'm like you.   I'm not afraid of catching it because I'm fairly certain I would beat it without a hospital stay and whatnot. 

The issue is for people around me who aren't as healthy.   I can still transmit the virus to them, and I don't want to even chance that.  So mask, and lower-risk places it is.

And I'm living OK!   Heck, I still get to go to UNT football games!   Believe me, I miss high-fives, handshakes, hugs, seeing people's entire faces, and all that.   I know this will only be for a little while though, so it's not so bad.

And I know you're aware, but please be careful around your dad though, and even moreso around your grandma.   Even if they're doing well on meds or insulin, the virus can have a more profound impact on them.

I agree with your comments 100%, but we are able to transmit the flu, pneumonia, etc... to people at all times without our knowledge.  If I show symptoms then it is my responsibility to stay home or at a distance from people.  Why is this treated differently from other illnesses that are just as deadly, or moreso, for those at risk?

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7 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

I agree with your comments 100%, but we are able to transmit the flu, pneumonia, etc... to people at all times without our knowledge.  If I show symptoms then it is my responsibility to stay home or at a distance from people.  Why is this treated differently from other illnesses that are just as deadly, or moreso, for those at risk?

This is way deadlier than the flu.

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