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UT Athletes demand removal of racist song


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2 hours ago, Milo said:

No thank you, that's the best part.

Some day, when you are sitting there with your 6 or 7 year old child, you may change your tune. 

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On the one hand, why should we care about whether UT athletes are giving their own school a well deserved dressing down?

More to the point, why should I be surprised when members of a forum of UNT alums don't really seem to appreciate the evolving perception of music genres (not to mention the UNT involvement in such)? In the 2010 New York Times obit for Leon Breeden, director of the UNT Jazz Studies program from 1959 to 1981, mentions that when he arrived, North Texas already had the oldest degree granting "jazz" program in the nation, but that could only be whispered, not boasted about, at a time when jazz was seen as barely suitable for night clubs. And I know many of y'all don't think much of the New York Times lately, but you'd be honored if they did your obituary. Here's a link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/arts/music/14breeden.html

 

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23 minutes ago, eulessismore said:

On the one hand, why should we care about whether UT athletes are giving their own school a well deserved dressing down?

More to the point, why should I be surprised when members of a forum of UNT alums don't really seem to appreciate the evolving perception of music genres (not to mention the UNT involvement in such)? In the 2010 New York Times obit for Leon Breeden, director of the UNT Jazz Studies program from 1959 to 1981, mentions that when he arrived, North Texas already had the oldest degree granting "jazz" program in the nation, but that could only be whispered, not boasted about, at a time when jazz was seen as barely suitable for night clubs. And I know many of y'all don't think much of the New York Times lately, but you'd be honored if they did your obituary. Here's a link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/arts/music/14breeden.html

 

I'm not certain where the author received her information about North Texas' jazz program "being in the closet". The forerunner, The Aces of Collegeland, had a nationally broadcast radio program as early as the 2O's. In the early 60's, the 1 0'Clock jazz band was broadcast over the Voice of America as well as touring. There may be something to her claim that jazz was not considered a proper major in those early days, but almost every music school of any size now offers a degree in jazz, including Juilliard.

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1 minute ago, MeanGreenTeeth said:

The problem with all of this is if you take it to it's logical ends, then almost everything has to be cancelled/torn down/renamed.   Austin itself would need to be renamed because SFA was a slaveowner.  One of the most cherished Christian Hymns, "Amazing Grace", was written by a slaver.  Disney probably needs to be renamed and many works expunged as racist and anti-Semitic themes are found in Walt's work.  Statues of Washington and Jefferson would need to be toppled.  LBJ, despite shepherding  in the civil rights right, was quite racist on a personal level, so the LBJ library would need to be closed.   As pretty much everyone was pretty dang racist by today's standards, almost anything that pays tribute to a white person before 1950 would need to be removed as, no doubt, they did not see blacks as true equals.  This process would literally never end, because there is a plausible argument that so many things had racist roots or were created by people who were themselves racist.

people aren't using logic today, so it should all be good.  

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43 minutes ago, MeanGreenTeeth said:

 This process would literally never end, because there is a plausible argument that so many things had racist roots or were created by people who were themselves racist.

I am sure you can differentiate between flawed people doing good things and flawed people doing hateful things, yes?

A racist can design a couch and sell that couch and anyone can sit on that couch - no big deal, right? That racist can have their personal opinion and be hateful and live their hateful life as long as they aren't breaking laws.


Or a racist can design a couch that is only for whites and if a black person wants to sit on that couch they are beaten - that is a big deal, right?

There are NO good wholesome minstrel shows. They were and are racist and harmful. They are not good ole fun. 

It is not a slippery slope. I don't get why you snowflakes are so upset by these athletes trying to not sing along to minstrel music. 

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20 hours ago, MeanGreenTeeth said:

1.  Washington Statue -
2.  Blackface Mickey -
3.  Snowflakes -
4. OK

1. Again - you are projecting your slippery slope argument and saying that we will lead to horses wearing people clothes. Did Washington start a war to protect slavery? Was he a traitor to his country? To my knowledge he did not.. So... I assume you are trying to draw a line to people removing confederate statues during protests? Or Christoper Columbus (which in itself is an odd thing to have a statue of - he was not a good person at all and his whole US history is nearly a lie )? I don't see the see slope of those arguments. 

But if a black community decides rename their elementary school from Washington Elementary to Langston Hughes Elementary - that does not offend me. I couldn't care less. If they think it represents the goals and values of their school - perfect - the should do it. 

Renaming Washington DC? Sure. I don't care. I don't live there. I don't have skin in that game. But you are using this a slippery slope strawman line of of thinking.  

Like people arguing against gays marrying because it will lead to people marrying animals. That is just bananas. 

We can agree as adults that truly offensive characters in history don't deserver to be pillars of history. 

2. Is the soul purpose of Mickey set up to mock and ridicule a race? No? Ok. Great. We can agree on that. 
If I learned that his character was used for that purpose for whole generation of people, but then was white washed into being acceptable for white kids later? I would not accept Mickey. It would not enter my house for my kids. The same way other racist Disney characters have been sidelined and are not sold anymore.  I don't find the logic hard. 

3. Snowflake. Funny. 

4. I am glad you accept the line of reasoning that Texas should change their fight song - since you are not offended by their offense of the minstrel tune.
 

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On ‎6‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 8:37 AM, eulessismore said:

On the one hand, why should we care about whether UT athletes are giving their own school a well deserved dressing down?

More to the point, why should I be surprised when members of a forum of UNT alums don't really seem to appreciate the evolving perception of music genres (not to mention the UNT involvement in such)? In the 2010 New York Times obit for Leon Breeden, director of the UNT Jazz Studies program from 1959 to 1981, mentions that when he arrived, North Texas already had the oldest degree granting "jazz" program in the nation, but that could only be whispered, not boasted about, at a time when jazz was seen as barely suitable for night clubs. And I know many of y'all don't think much of the New York Times lately, but you'd be honored if they did your obituary. Here's a link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/arts/music/14breeden.html

 

As a freshman in 1961 ,the One O'clock Lab Band was well known on campus, and all students were required to take a one hour Music Appreciation Course.

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3 hours ago, 97and03 said:

@SteaminWillieBeamin

Technically Washington was a traitor to his country - England. 
But to that point - are there Washington statues in London? Because there is a Jefferson Davis statues in the friggin’ US Capitol building! 

As a matter of fact, there is a statue of Washington in London. Right on Trafalgar Square!

 

Screen Shot 2020-06-16 at 6.20.07 PM.png

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34 minutes ago, letsgiveacheer said:

As a matter of fact, there is a statue of Washington in London. Right on Trafalgar Square!

 

Screen Shot 2020-06-16 at 6.20.07 PM.png

Jefferson Davis led the Confederacy to become the richest most powerful country on earth... He should rightfully have a statue. /s

Edited by SteaminWillieBeamin
...
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5 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

Washington was born in Virginia

Yes, but as the US was not yet in existence I believe he would have been considered a British Citizen

 

On February 22, 1732, George Washington is born in Westmoreland County, Virginia, the first of six children of Augustine and Mary Ball Washington. (Augustine had three additional children from his first marriage.) An initially loyal British subject, Washington eventually led the Continental Army in the American Revolution and became the new nation's first president. He is often referred to as the father of the United States. Washington rose to eminence on his own merit. His first job at age 17 was as a surveyor in the Shenandoah Valley. In 1752, he joined the British army and served as a lieutenant in the French and Indian War.

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10 hours ago, letsgiveacheer said:

As a matter of fact, there is a statue of Washington in London. Right on Trafalgar Square!

 

Screen Shot 2020-06-16 at 6.20.07 PM.png

And much like most Confederate monuments it wasn’t a contemporary act.

Donated by Virginia in 1921. But kind of cool the British put it there. By then the UK and US had finally been on the same side of a war at least! 

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