Everything on the Table

[UNTLifer]

7 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

And what that have to do with spreading the virus? Do you really not understand that these are separate issues? 
They can easily transmit it to their less resistant family members or friends without ever developing any symptoms. 
 

So what are we going to do with those pesky kids spreading colds, the flu, mono, pneumonia, and every other illness under the sun?  

[97and03]

On 5/16/2020 at 12:48 PM, UNTLifer said:

So what are we going to do with those pesky kids spreading colds, the flu, mono, pneumonia, and every other illness under the sun?  

Are you ignorant or just callous? 
Btw pneumonia isn’t a specific virus or bacteria. I would have thought a medical expert like yourself would know that. I guess your rehab gym did not cover infectious diseases. Well they did in my graduate Biodefense program. 
There is a reason that college kids require vaccines before being allowed to enroll. And those requirements have expanded over the years. For example colleges are getting kids vaccinated for meningitis because it is such a problem on campuses.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Coach Andy Mac

[SlimSlamSlum]

15 hours ago, Arkstfan said:

Never had to close for the flu? Every year several Arkansas districts will close for a few days or a week because so many kids and teachers are getting sick. 

Never have. My first couple of years teaching were in Florida. We closed once for a hurricane and once for a wildfire. Ironically, I had the flu during he hurricane and would have stayed home, but instead was forced to go to a hurricane evacuation center and expose everyone there.

[Quoner]

1 hour ago, 97and03 said:

Are you stupid or just callous? 
Btw pneumonia isn’t a specific virus or bacteria. I would have thought a medical expert like yourself would know that. I guess your rehab gym did not cover infectious diseases. Well they did in my graduate Biodefense program. 
There is a reason that college kids require vaccines before being allowed to enroll. And those requirements have expanded over the years. For example colleges are getting kids vaccinated for meningitis because it is such a problem on campuses.

Whoa whoa whoa... I think you owe Lifer an apology. He's been very open with his medical credentials and front line expertise and I refuse to believe that he's been doing something as tangential as this the whole time.

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, 97and03 said:

And what that have to do with spreading the virus? Do you really not understand that these are separate issues? 

They can easily transmit it to their less resistant family members or friends without ever developing any symptoms. 
 

You mean their family members and friends they are enclosed & huddled up with in a house or apartment somewhere  RIGHT NOW?

 

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, 97and03 said:

Are you stupid or just callous? 
Btw pneumonia isn’t a specific virus or bacteria. I would have thought a medical expert like yourself would know that. I guess your rehab gym did not cover infectious diseases. Well they did in my graduate Biodefense program. 
There is a reason that college kids require vaccines before being allowed to enroll. And those requirements have expanded over the years. For example colleges are getting kids vaccinated for meningitis because it is such a problem on campuses.

“FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, NO, NOT YOUR STUPID SCIENCE,...MINE.  AND REMEMBER, MY SCIENCE IS SETTLED!”

[97and03]

5 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

You mean their family members and friends they are enclosed & huddled up with in a house or apartment somewhere  RIGHT NOW?

 

If you were paying attention this was part of a conversation about the challenges of restarting college athletics in these times. When you bring people out of the houses and start interacting with people who may or may not have practiced safety then the risk of infection increases. 
I completely understand we can’t go on forever like this, but the countries that have had more open policies did a better job of containment early. We didn’t unfortunately. We have to increase tests and more importantly contact tracing. 

[FirefightnRick]

5 minutes ago, 97and03 said:

If you were paying attention this was part of a conversation about the challenges of restarting college athletics in these times. When you bring people out of the houses and start interacting with people who may or may not have practiced safety then the risk of infection increases. 
I completely understand we can’t go on forever like this, but the countries that have had more open policies did a better job of containment early. We didn’t unfortunately. We have to increase tests and more importantly contact tracing. 

Oh yeah?  So if someone tests negative today, what about in an hour?  Next day, next week?  You gonna test everyone every day?  Then the next week, next month, two months from then the person finally tests positive.  Then what?  You gonna pay to contact trace everyone they’ve spoken to, walked behind and touched every object and surface everyone else did?

See how stupid this can get?

Edited May 16, 2020 by FirefightnRick

[97and03]

12 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Oh yeah?  So if someone tests negative today, what about in an hour?  Next day, next week?  You gonna test everyone every day?  Then the next week, next month, two months from then the person finally tests positive.  Then what?  You gonna pay to contact trace everyone they’ve spoken to, walked behind and touched every object and surface everyone else did?

See how stupid this can get?

You are correct that people can test negative one day and then positive a day or two later based on their contacts and precautions. The White House is one example. 
I know we can’t go back in time and do this right the first time, but that is why we have to be more cautious now. The countries that have more open rules now acted earlier, like Sweden and Singapore. But they have also faced challenges including a second wave. 
Vietnam isn’t the best parallel since it is smaller, less developed, and authoritarian.  But this is an example of contact tracing and preventative measures that could have been taken. We can replicate some of that now. We can’t test everyone every day, but we should seek to test those that contacted others found infected, and then test those that they met as well. 

Authorities also widely and meticulously documented anyone who potentially came in contact with the virus. Western countries like Germany only documented those infected and their direct contacts. Vietnam also kept track of second, third and fourth levels of contact to infected persons. All of these people were then placed under successively stringent levels of movement and contact restrictions. And from very early on, anyone arriving in Vietnam from a high-risk area would be quarantined for 14 days. 
 

 

[DeepGreen]

Ah, good ole Viet Nam.  The new "fountain of corona virus knowledge".  "I love the smell of napalm in the morning".

[UNTLifer]

8 hours ago, 97and03 said:

Are you stupid or just callous? 
Btw pneumonia isn’t a specific virus or bacteria. I would have thought a medical expert like yourself would know that. I guess your rehab gym did not cover infectious diseases. Well they did in my graduate Biodefense program. 
There is a reason that college kids require vaccines before being allowed to enroll. And those requirements have expanded over the years. For example colleges are getting kids vaccinated for meningitis because it is such a problem on campuses.

Just wish I was an expert on all of this like you and that I shared your gift of interpreting hidden meanings behind words like “open the economy” and other comments of similar nature. 
 

By the way, I don’t work for a “rehab gym” and I was making a general comment. I bow to your expertise in all things biology since you are a bio defense expert. 

[wardly]

9 hours ago, SlimSlamSlum said:

Never have. My first couple of years teaching were in Florida. We closed once for a hurricane and once for a wildfire. Ironically, I had the flu during he hurricane and would have stayed home, but instead was forced to go to a hurricane evacuation center and expose everyone there.

When I was in elementary school in Arkansas in early 50's we closed because of the hookworm.

[Rudy]

[97and03]

5 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

Just wish I was an expert on all of this like you and that I shared your gift of interpreting hidden meanings behind words like “open the economy” and other comments of similar nature. 
 

By the way, I don’t work for a “rehab gym” and I was making a general comment. I bow to your expertise in all things biology since you are a bio defense expert. 

I am no expert on virology, biodefense, or public health, although I did grad coursework in all at George Mason.  I studied under Ken Alibek, who ran the USSR's offense bioweapons program, and many other brilliant scientist and policy experts. The program has moved from the Biology department to under the school of public policy, so the structure has changed to more of a policy focus, but that was my concentration anyway so my grad certificate looked more like the current version than the programs of my colleagues that were in the biology track. (https://schar.gmu.edu/prospective-students/programs/graduate-certificates/biodefense)  I took courses on viruses, bacteria, toxins, and public health policy. 

But to date I have not directly used this educational background in my work, although it has come in handy recently.  So therefore, I am not an expert. I just know quite a bit more than the average bear and have much better sources of information because of my work. And I learned excellent critical thinking and analytical skills during my time at UNT, so I try to research my sources and question motives behind language.  

I apologize for making a personal attack on you. I was frustrated and I do believe that some of the ideas behind put forward here by you and others is unhelpful and perhaps even counterproductive in overcoming the COVID-19 crisis. But making it personal also does not do anything to move us forward, so I am sorry for that.  

 

 

[RBP79]

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/sports/columnists/chuck_landon/chuck-landon-lets-hope-selig-is-wrong-about-c-usa/article_77bc42e3-4869-5fdb-adeb-29863f02b193.html

What's good for "Old Dominion" is good for CUSA??  

[UNTLifer]

On 5/17/2020 at 3:48 AM, 97and03 said:

I am no expert on virology, biodefense, or public health, although I did grad coursework in all at George Mason.  I studied under Ken Alibek, who ran the USSR's offense bioweapons program, and many other brilliant scientist and policy experts. The program has moved from the Biology department to under the school of public policy, so the structure has changed to more of a policy focus, but that was my concentration anyway so my grad certificate looked more like the current version than the programs of my colleagues that were in the biology track. (https://schar.gmu.edu/prospective-students/programs/graduate-certificates/biodefense)  I took courses on viruses, bacteria, toxins, and public health policy. 

But to date I have not directly used this educational background in my work, although it has come in handy recently.  So therefore, I am not an expert. I just know quite a bit more than the average bear and have much better sources of information because of my work. And I learned excellent critical thinking and analytical skills during my time at UNT, so I try to research my sources and question motives behind language.  

I apologize for making a personal attack on you. I was frustrated and I do believe that some of the ideas behind put forward here by you and others is unhelpful and perhaps even counterproductive in overcoming the COVID-19 crisis. But making it personal also does not do anything to move us forward, so I am sorry for that.  

 

 

I appreciate your post and your background and expertise.  I think we are all tired and frustrated and are obviously effected by our personal experiences with the virus.  I have been in the health and wellness field for 28 years including 5 years at Baylor Medical Center Dallas and the last ten years working for a company that manages facilities for hospitals to provide disease intervention programming as well as many other integrated services.  I have spent the last 5 weeks working at our main hospital campus, so I do have first hand knowledge regarding this pandemic as it relates to making accommodations, staff requirements, etc...  My main point is that it is counterproductive to manager every area exactly the same and some of the guidelines have been odd to say the least. 

Anyway, I too apologize for getting personal.  I think we are all just tired and frustrated and ready for some normalcy to return.  Hope everyone stays safe and virus free.

Edited May 18, 2020 by UNTLifer

[C Rod]

ESPN’s latest article on CFB and testing:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29194783/why-coronavirus-testing-key-return-college-football

[97and03]

18 hours ago, C Rod said:

ESPN’s latest article on CFB and testing:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29194783/why-coronavirus-testing-key-return-college-football

The plan one person hypothetically discusses of testing on Thursday and then  simply not playing anyone who tests positive isn’t a very effective approach. If one has it and is working out and practicing with the team, it is very likely others will catch the virus but return a negative test. In turn they will spread it to teammates and opposing players. 

Honestly there probably isn’t a solution that works. I am not sure how they will manage it. I do like that they are thinking about mandatory testing at least. 

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/if-youve-been-exposed-to-the-coronavirus

If you get the nasal/throat swab or saliva test, you will get a false negative test result:

• 100% of the time on the day you are exposed to the virus. (There are so few viral particles in your nose or saliva so soon after infection that the test cannot detect them.)
• About 40% of the time if you are tested four days after exposure to the virus.
• About 20% of the time if you develop symptoms and are tested three days after those symptoms started.

This possibility of a false negative test result is why anyone who has symptoms that could be due to COVID-19, or has been exposed to someone known to be infected, must isolate even if they test negative for coronavirus.

Edited May 21, 2020 by 97and03