DRC: UNT bye week thoughts

[Green Lantern]

6 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

63% career passer with over 10K yards has time to throw the ball. That's just a bunch of BS. The UNT line is not great, but they are good enough to give him time to throw a football. He has missed his target 3 fold more than he has been sacked this year. And as far as him getting hit, it's football. This version of MF is more similar to freshman MF than it is SO. & JR. Mason Fine. We can like the guy all the same and commend him for his accomplishments while we're at it. But when it needs to be pointed out that he's playing poorly, then it is what it is. 

Sorry man but Fine is getting killed behind this year’s oline. I’ve been shocked at how poorly they’ve played as a unit this many years into Littrell’s tenure.

Also, the poor protection doesn’t even factor in the awful low snaps Mason has to shoe string grab off the ground just to get plays started.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Green Lantern

[GrandGreen]

54 minutes ago, Green Lantern said:

Sorry man but Fine is getting killed behind this year’s oline. I’ve been shocked at how poorly they’ve played as a unit this many years into Littrell’s tenure.

Also, the poor protection doesn’t even factor in the awful low snaps Mason has to shoe string grab off the ground just to get plays started.

This is not a trick question, what NT ol was better than this year or what other CUSA team is better?  

One popular answer to what NT had a better offensive line, would be in the early Dickey years with national rushing champions.  However, those were very one dimensional teams, these linemen didn't have to do a lot of pass blocking. 

NT leads the league in total offense at 451 yards a game.  They are second in points scored.  Siggers is also the leading rusher at 119.5 yards a game.

NT is number 5 in rushing and number 4 in passing per game in CUSA.

Those numbers were posted in general against a tougher oc schedule than most of CUSA's leading statistical offensive teams have played. 

I don't believe a poor ol could produce those type of numbers.  

NT has a much more balanced attack this year, so Fine's numbers are going to go down.  Fine is playing in a new system, that is not as dependent on his passing to win.  

Some critics of Fine, I believe just look at the stats and don't bother to watch the game.   For example, Fine's game against UH was one of his best.   That game was lost by special teams, inconsistent defense and NT's  routine first quarter absence.

[Salsa_Verde]

Hate bringing up the Houston game but take away those two special team TDs and North Texas loses 25-31. 

[GrandGreen]

43 minutes ago, Salsa_Verde said:

Hate bringing up the Houston game but take away those two special team TDs and North Texas loses 25-31. 

I don't think you can ignore the other effects of special teams plays that led to poor field position.  For example, two of those ill advised pooch points gave the ball to SMU past their forty.  One turned into a quick td drive by SMU.   

The sad part of those pooch punts is that was NT's strategy.  One returned for a td and another that led directly to another td. 

[greenminer]

10 hours ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

63% career passer with over 10K yards has time to throw the ball. That's just a bunch of BS. The UNT line is not great, but they are good enough to give him time to throw a football. He has missed his target 3 fold more than he has been sacked this year. And as far as him getting hit, it's football. This version of MF is more similar to freshman MF than it is SO. & JR. Mason Fine. We can like the guy all the same and commend him for his accomplishments while we're at it. But when it needs to be pointed out that he's playing poorly, then it is what it is. 

nah.

[FirefightnRick]

13 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

This is not a trick question, what NT ol was better than this year or what other CUSA team is better?  

One popular answer to what NT had a better offensive line, would be in the early Dickey years with national rushing champions.  However, those were very one dimensional teams, these linemen didn't have to do a lot of pass blocking. 

NT leads the league in total offense at 451 yards a game.  They are second in points scored.  Siggers is also the leading rusher at 119.5 yards a game.

NT is number 5 in rushing and number 4 in passing per game in CUSA.

Those numbers were posted in general against a tougher oc schedule than most of CUSA's leading statistical offensive teams have played. 

I don't believe a poor ol could produce those type of numbers.

NT has a much more balanced attack this year, so Fine's numbers are going to go down.  Fine is playing in a new system, that is not as dependent on his passing to win.  

Some critics of Fine, I believe just look at the stats and don't bother to watch the game.   For example, Fine's game against UH was one of his best.   That game was lost by special teams, inconsistent defense and NT's  routine first quarter absence.

Anyone who has watched the games, and I’ve seen all five in person,... would consider those somewhat misleading as garbage time stats against two extremely weak opponents and in three second half blow out games.

We’ve accrued 1075 yards against ACU and UTSA.  And another near 730 yards in the second half against the three good teams we’ve played in near blow outs.

Here’s the first half yard production in those three games.

159 yards vs SMU (19 yards 1st qtr).

100 yards vs Cal (48 1st qtr).

171 vs U of H (57 1st qtr).

Doesnt quite tell the same story.

And though Southern Miss is no SMU/Cal/Houston I expect we’ll see a similar distribution of yards unless it’s competitive for 4 qtrs 

 

Rick.

Edited October 7, 2019 by FirefightnRick

[keith]

I thought we were supposed to run a hurry-up offense this season trying to put pressure on the opposing defense and keep them on their heels by getting to the line and snapping the ball quickly.  However, it seems we take a lot of time at the line constantly looking over to the sidelines for the play call and generally take most of the play clock to snap the ball.  Maybe it's just perception on my part, but wasn't the hurry-up mentioned as one of our tactics before the season? 

[GrandGreen]

2 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

Anyone who has watched the games, and I’ve seen all five in person,... would consider those somewhat misleading as garbage time stats against two extremely weak opponents and in three second half blow out games.

We’ve accrued 1075 yards against ACU and UTSA.  And another near 800 yards in the second half against the three good teams we’ve played in near blow outs.

Here’s the first half yard production in those three games.

159 yards vs SMU (19 yards 1st qtr).

100 yards vs Cal (48 1st qtr).

171 vs U of H (57 1st qtr).

Doesnt quite tell the same story.

And though Southern Miss is no SMU/Cal/Houston I expect we’ll see a similar distribution of yards unless it’s competitive for 4 qtrs 

 

Rick.

Yes, stats can be very misleading

However, it would be impossible to go through every team's stats to parse out misleading stats; there is no basis for comparison.

Not to mention the three games you cited are all against very good teams.  

Stats will tend to even out as the season goes on.  

I have seen all the games.  Cal game on TV, others in person.  I mention this because the tv game is actually a much better basis for drawing conclusions about the team.   Not close to the feel and fun as being there in person, but from an analytical basis it is better.  Replays and analysis (even with very questionable announcers) adds to understanding what is going on. 

As everyone who follows NT knows they have been horrible in the first quarter.   Is this because teams are just far superior and crush NT at the beginning of games than coast?  Or is NT just inept at starting games?

Cal and SMU are just very good teams especially compared to G5's.  UH even depleted was a much more talented team than NT.

I will be very surprised if any CUSA team is anywhere close to as good as the teams that have beaten NT this year.  UTSA certainly was not.  ACU and UTSA are probably closer to the average CUSA team than UH, Cal and SMU.  

    

 

 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

13 hours ago, GrandGreen said:

This is not a trick question, what NT ol was better than this year or what other CUSA team is better?  

One popular answer to what NT had a better offensive line, would be in the early Dickey years with national rushing champions.  However, those were very one dimensional teams, these linemen didn't have to do a lot of pass blocking. 

NT leads the league in total offense at 451 yards a game.  They are second in points scored.  Siggers is also the leading rusher at 119.5 yards a game.

NT is number 5 in rushing and number 4 in passing per game in CUSA.

Those numbers were posted in general against a tougher oc schedule than most of CUSA's leading statistical offensive teams have played. 

I don't believe a poor ol could produce those type of numbers.  

NT has a much more balanced attack this year, so Fine's numbers are going to go down.  Fine is playing in a new system, that is not as dependent on his passing to win.  

Some critics of Fine, I believe just look at the stats and don't bother to watch the game.   For example, Fine's game against UH was one of his best.   That game was lost by special teams, inconsistent defense and NT's  routine first quarter absence.

I agree with you until you got to MF had one of his better games vs UH. His stats didn't start to compile until after the game was no longer in question...Much like vs SMU, Troy, etc. etc. SL keeps him in to stat monger and it typically works. MF did NOT have his best game vs UH...Maybe statistically, but that's it. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

12 hours ago, Salsa_Verde said:

Hate bringing up the Houston game but take away those two special team TDs and North Texas loses 25-31. 

Take away those 3 touchdowns and UH isn't playing soft cover 2 man or 3 umbrella either. It can all be skewed one way or the other. 

[NorthTexasWeLove]

15 hours ago, Green Lantern said:

Sorry man but Fine is getting killed behind this year’s oline. I’ve been shocked at how poorly they’ve played as a unit this many years into Littrell’s tenure.

Also, the poor protection doesn’t even factor in the awful low snaps Mason has to shoe string grab off the ground just to get plays started.

The shoestring snaps have been an issue, I will agree to that. 

[NM Green]

Except for that southern miss team this coming weekend. They are essentially US standing on the other side of the ball.  Will this be another hard to tell game as to who we really are?  Remaining games my thoughts:

southern miss - edge USM better

middle tn - edge UNT better

charlotte - even. Us better but this game looks and feels like odu to me due to new environment away game. 

Utep - UNT better

la tech - even. I think we match up well with them and play strong in Ruston. I think their edge is negated by our confidence and it comes down to the wire again.

rice - edge UNT.  This won’t be easy but we will pull out a victory in Houston and keep the owl near missing. 

Uab - edge UNT. See middle Tennessee. Home game masons last stand and all that jazz give us a nice W to end the year. 

6-6 to end the year and hold our breath waiting for one more shot for Littrell and mason to go out on top. 

GMG

[FirefightnRick]

1 hour ago, GrandGreen said:

Yes, stats can be very misleading

 

You got that right.  I was looking over the NCAA’s stat website just to see how everyone we’ve played matches up with each other.  

Would you believe me if I told you the 9th worst overall defense is U of H?

Or SMU, Cal and North Texas’ pass defense are all ranked in the 50’s?

But of course no surprise here that North Texas’ run defense is one of the worst and comes in ranked at 104th.

 

Rick

[GrandGreen]

8 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I agree with you until you got to MF had one of his better games vs UH. His stats didn't start to compile until after the game was no longer in question...Much like vs SMU, Troy, etc. etc. SL keeps him in to stat monger and it typically works. MF did NOT have his best game vs UH...Maybe statistically, but that's it. 

That 7-7 passing at the beginning of the game doesn't count?

One of his best games, not his best game. 

I thought Littrell left Fine in the game too long. 

 

 

[NTXCoog]

32 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

 

You got that 

Would you believe me if I told you the 9th worst overall defense is U of H?

The UH defense is not good, but playing OU and Washington State would skew the stats for most teams

Edited October 7, 2019 by NTXCoog

[NorthTexasWeLove]

48 minutes ago, FirefightnRick said:

 

You got that right.  I was looking over the NCAA’s stat website just to see how everyone we’ve played matches up with each other.  

Would you believe me if I told you the 9th worst overall defense is U of H?

Or SMU, Cal and North Texas’ pass defense are all ranked in the 50’s?

But of course no surprise here that North Texas’ run defense is one of the worst and comes in ranked at 104th.

 

Rick

Yeah, I would believe that. They are not good. They were 126th in overall team defense last year. And moving into this year they may have not improved all that much. You're just flabbergasted at the fact that they made our mediocre offense look less than mediocre? 

[GrandGreen]

22 minutes ago, NTXCoog said:

The UH defense is not good, but playing OU and Washington State would skew the stats for most teams

Tulane is not bad this year either. 

 

[GangGreen]

The main reason for falling behind early in games is that you are getting your ass kicked by better teams.

[FirefightnRick]

5 hours ago, NTXCoog said:

The UH defense is not good, but playing OU and Washington State would skew the stats for most teams

True this, plus like GG said,...Tulane’s pretty good too.  But they didn’t look 121st against us that’s for sure.

As I told our Cal friends after our game against them,..SMU looked to me to have the better defense. As of right now they are the best total defense we’ve faced,..and have the 39th best run defense overall.

UAB and Old Dominion have the best defenses in CUSA thus far.

 

Rick