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Time to start questioning Seth?


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53 minutes ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I have no rule. I'm tired of spending me entertainment dollar on voluntary throat punches. No one was saying squat about the lack of recruiting in 2018 or 2019 during the season. It's an easy built in excuse and given it's year 4, it's a poor excuse. But we're beaten and tired fans, so as long as we're pulling 5-8 wins a year any coach could probably coach here forever...is the mindset around here anyways. 

If you were around during the Dickey era, you would have noticed how quiet people were about the draws on third-and-long.  As long as we were winning the Sun Belt, it was nit-pick.  But man! when that title run fizzled, everyone was vocal about it.  It was frustrating, and an easy thing to pick on when you were only winning 2 or 3 games.

I think when things are going well, like a couple 8+ win seasons after only 5, people tend to be quiet about the negatives.  That doesn't mean we aren't noticing.

The frustration with the entire recruiting thing is that it took Seth 3 years to figure something out, and now we have to wait another 2 years on top of that to see any results.

GMG

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Bowl losses don't make a coach bad. SL has turned our entire program around on and off the field he has got people to buy in like no other coach I have seen at UNT. 

I believe Seth has taken this program as far as he can.   No conference championship  No bowl wins  Struggles with teams who have records .500 or better.    I don't understand

no, it is not. Seth is a good coach. 

1 hour ago, NorthTexasWeLove said:

I have no rule. I'm tired of spending me entertainment dollar on voluntary throat punches. No one was saying squat about the lack of recruiting in 2018 or 2019 during the season. It's an easy built in excuse and given it's year 4, it's a poor excuse. But we're beaten and tired fans, so as long as we're pulling 5-8 wins a year any coach could probably coach here forever...is the mindset around here anyways. 

I’ve told you many times that you’ll go the way 98% of UNT alumni and eventually walk away. The frustration that this place causes is reflected in your posts. You’ll find some P5 team and adopt them as your own. It happens here all the time. Once you talk about not spending money or attending games anymore, you know you’re done.

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14 hours ago, ADLER said:

Holy smokes, can you kids overreact  

The over reaction goes both ways. I don’t think that questioning a coach who has NEVER won a “big game” and a coach that not only loses but gets blown out in these games = Fire him now. I don’t know if I’ve seen many that have said he has to go versus the ones that are just frustrated.

I mean: can he just not get totally embarrassed every time he plays a good team? Can we say “man Littrell sure out coached that other team” just once?

edit: especially a coach that used another job (supposedly) to get more money out of UNT. Not saying it doesn’t happen because obviously it does. That’s fine. But you DAMN SURE better win and win big. And you sure as hell better not take steps back. 

Edited by TheColonyEagle
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1 hour ago, TheColonyEagle said:

I mean: can he just not get totally embarrassed every time he plays a good team? Can we say “man Littrell sure out coached that other team” just once?

This right here.

We don't have to win every tough away game, or against solid OOC opponents.

I'm just tired of getting the doors blown off every time we have those opportunities. Hell I don't care if we lose, can we just lose by a field goal or something?

I'd be okay with Team - 38 UNT - 35, at least you know you're a couple plays away. Instead it's always:

Team - 85

UNT - 20

And yet we get called disloyal and bad fans because we have the expectation that our head coach will field a competitive team. I don't care if it makes me a bad fan, I will hold the coaching staff and AD accountable for their actions. 

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20 hours ago, ntmeangreen11 said:

Expectations have changed but results haven't Big game Seth continues to flop when it matters most. We also have the most insanely terrible defensive performances in these games.

2017: FAU 69, UNT 31, CCG: FAU 41 UNT 17, Bowl: Troy 50 UNT 30

2018: Bowl: Utah State 52 UNT 13

2019: Two 20+ point losses to Houston and SMU.

But hey, we sure can beat teams like UTSA what are we bitching about?

This is actually a really good post, but probably not how you are thinking. Yes, we got smoked in those games, but you are leaving out strong performances against Iowa/Cal, a win against Arkansas and the fact that NT 'arrived' at least a year before they should have. THe fact that we have 'guaranteed wins' on our schedule is amazing. 

I think early success is hurting Littrell more than anything. he may have set the bar too high for some. I still think this program is miles better that it was 4 years ago (due to LIttrell and Baker) and I think we are still improving. 

I like going into games feeling we can win against every opponent (which had never happened in my first 12 years of being a fan) and then feeling pissed off/frustrated when we lose. Instead of just tuning in for all the games because of blind loyalty.

I think you should always 'question' what your coach is doing, but to say that he should be gone, or have the seat warm (whatever the hell that means), it crazy. If Seth wants to stay here for another two years, he has earned that right, at a minimum.

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1 hour ago, Got5onIt said:

Huh?

Its a metaphor for life and sports, how they control you, and what you can do to control them.

As Walt Whitman famously said, sometimes you've got to "hit the mascot", or was that Crash Davis? One of those, but you get the point.

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5 hours ago, MGNation92 said:

This right here.

We don't have to win every tough away game, or against solid OOC opponents.

I'm just tired of getting the doors blown off every time we have those opportunities. Hell I don't care if we lose, can we just lose by a field goal or something?

I'd be okay with Team - 38 UNT - 35, at least you know you're a couple plays away. Instead it's always:

Team - 85

UNT - 20

And yet we get called disloyal and bad fans because we have the expectation that our head coach will field a competitive team. I don't care if it makes me a bad fan, I will hold the coaching staff and AD accountable for their actions. 

I would say the Army game in 2016 and 2017 were very solid wins under SL, but other than that no. Yes they put up fights with Iowa and Cal etc, but overall that big win hasn’t come yet

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Army gave us a blueprint for beating UofH in their bowl game last year.  They pressured Tune from every angle and they don't have near the athletes at DB that we do.  Why did we only rush three and let Tune sit back there all game?  It was crazy the amount of time he had.  Reffet's defense is supposed to work off of pressure, yet we sit back and get picked apart.  I don't get it.

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5 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

Army gave us a blueprint for beating UofH in their bowl game last year.  That pressured Tune from every angle and they don't have near the athletes at DB that we do.  We did we only rush three and let Tune sit back there all game?  It was crazy the amount of time he had.  Reffet's defense is supposed to work off of pressure, yet we sit back and get picked apart.  I don't get it.

Yeah...I was grinding teeth in disbelief how much time he had back there at the game. An OK HS QB could've made some stuff happen with that kind of time. 

So, I have to ask...If we're not putting pressure, and we're sitting back trying to cover, why aren't we good at either? If you can't cover, which we can't, you HAVE to blitz and take your lumps in the air as they come while hoping for drive ending sacks, strips, errant throws, etc. ANYTHING

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I think SL has done a very good job in Denton but we have a ways to go and it will take more time.  One thing that worries me about the future if you recruit a guy like Booger will he be here four years or will he  on the transfer portal if his values goes way up?  One thing I like to see is bigger linebackers.  I think our guys we have now go all out but the size thing is a factor when you play against teams higher up the food chain.  

Like some easier pointed out Tune had time to read the paper before he even looked up to throw the ball.  The qb runs are killing us again this year.  We better figure that out before we play LaTech.  

SL has run a clean program but if we want to win at all cost I hear Briles would like to get back into college football.  

I don't know if we could find a better coach out there than SL but I think we might be able to find some better assistant coaches.  I worry about next year when we lose Fine.

WE need to hire that strength and conditioning coach that was here during the Mac years, can't remember his name but I think he went to BYU.  The guys on that team were solid when he was here. 

 

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Just now, southsideguy said:

WE need to hire that strength and conditioning coach that was here during the Mac years, can't remember his name but I think he went to BYU.  The guys on that team were solid when he was here. 

 

The coach that led some of our lineman to push out like 7 or 8 reps on the bench press during our pro day?  Nah, I'm good with Womack.

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SL isn't managing this team well. Changes in coaches and players, even from game to game, have affected his ability to game plan. To me it looks like the departure of Graham Harrell was devastating to the offense and then add losing two of Mason's favorite targets compounds the problem.

Seth needs to step back and quickly make some changes. Before the season we knew the defense and STms were questionable but thought the offense would carry the day.

A Leader who surrounds themselves with successful people will in turn be successful.

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2 hours ago, RBP79 said:

SL isn't managing this team well. Changes in coaches and players, even from game to game, have affected his ability to game plan. To me it looks like the departure of Graham Harrell was devastating to the offense and then add losing two of Mason's favorite targets compounds the problem.

Seth needs to step back and quickly make some changes. Before the season we knew the defense and STms were questionable but thought the offense would carry the day.

A Leader who surrounds themselves with successful people will in turn be successful.

The offense looks Fine to me... after the 1st quarter.   Even after losing Bussey.

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On 9/28/2019 at 11:18 PM, KingDL1 said:

YES

Play calling was amazingly  bad and no lines 4 years later.

I would give just about anything to see Fine with a real offensive line. 

It was time to deliver today in front of a great crowd and he shits the  bed, again. To me that was a must win game.  

I don't like throwing around the term "must win" for non-conference games. But in big games like this went you are trying to build game attendance it is completely unacceptable to make it look like you are the cupcake team they scheduled for homecoming.  Would we be better than Kansas if we took their place in the Big 12?   As long as we can legitimately ponder questions like that scheduling and attendance is going to be a challenge.  No more raises for Seth and the coaching staff until they start winning big games when everyone is paying attention.

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5 minutes ago, Mike Jackson said:

I don't like throwing around the term "must win" for non-conference games. But in big games like this went you are trying to build game attendance it is completely unacceptable to make it look like you are the cupcake team they scheduled for homecoming.  Would we be better than Kansas if we took their place in the Big 12?   As long as we can legitimately ponder questions like that scheduling and attendance is going to be a challenge.  No more raises for Seth and the coaching staff until they start winning big games when everyone is paying attention.

The Arkansas game last year definitely qualified.   I understand Arkansas was bad, but didn't someone publish the amount of free dollars in promotions (in the $multi-millions) the University got just from the Peter Pan play in that game?

But yes, if this team ends up 7-5 (with or without a bowl win) Littrell simply cannot be extended & given a raise again.  And bet he would understand.   Raises/extensions are rewards for excellence, not regression from previous results.

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On 9/30/2019 at 1:36 PM, UNTLifer said:

Army gave us a blueprint for beating UofH in their bowl game last year.  They pressured Tune from every angle and they don't have near the athletes at DB that we do.  Why did we only rush three and let Tune sit back there all game?  It was crazy the amount of time he had.  Reffet's defense is supposed to work off of pressure, yet we sit back and get picked apart.  I don't get it.

I agree, but what I saw was that they were also running a lot of screens and set up short passes, so when we did blitz, the ball was out before anyone could get to him. It’s tough to keep blitzing when they are doing that to keep you off balance. 

 

Yes thats coaching because cause it’s a chess match, but we got blown up on a lot of short passes and runs that we did blitz on. 

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Seth is a good coach. Unfortunately we lost a great Offensive Coordinator last year. Our O-line is struggling so the offense continues to struggle too. 

Special teams is, well, not good.

Defense gives up mammoth runs and passes. Even agaist ACU.

We can't play from behind when we are struggling in all three phases of the game.

Additionally, its true we fail in big games but at least we are in a postion to play in big games. We all know it wasn't that way not long ago. This team needs get over the hump. This team could have a shot at conference and winning 4 of the next 7. Season isn't a wash.

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1 minute ago, UNTexas said:

Seth is a good coach. Unfortunately we lost a great Offensive Coordinator last year. Our O-line is struggling so the offense continues to struggle too. 

Special teams is, well, not good.

Defense gives up mammoth runs and passes. Even agaist ACU.

We can't play from behind when we are struggling in all three phases of the game.

Additionally, its true we fail in big games but at least we are in a postion to play in big games. We all know it wasn't that way not long ago. This team needs get over the hump. This team could have a shot at conference and winning 4 of the next 7. Season isn't a wash.

I agree—the homers on here had us with 10+ wins and a conference championship, but some of us could see this coming. I didn’t see UH or SMU killing us, but that’s the way it has played out. Our defense was an unknown and so was the OL. Championships of any kind aren’t won with those two areas being less than stellar. I had us going 8-4, but I’ll gladly take 7-5 now. The real worry to me is Fine finally getting crushed to the point of not getting back up. If that happens, we are probably a 5-7 team at best. And SL and Jimmy Sexton’s cussing will probably be heard all the way back up to manhattan Kansas...

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"Blind" Resumes of CUSA West Coaches the past 3+ seasons:

Coach         Record         Conf Record           Bowls           Best Finish

   1                24-18               16-9                        1-1                2nd West

   2                25-20               16-9                        0-3                1st West

   3                28-17               17-9                        3-0                1st West

   4                28-15               17-8                        1-1              Conf Champs

 

Rank them

 

Edited by TheColonyEagle
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1 hour ago, TheColonyEagle said:

"Blind" Resumes of CUSA West Coaches the past 3+ seasons:

Coach         Record         Conf Record           Bowls           Best Finish

   1                24-18               16-9                        1-1                2nd West

   2                25-20               16-9                        0-3                1st West

   3                28-17               17-9                        3-0                1st West

   4                28-15               17-8                        1-1              Conf Champs

 

Rank them

 

These are all pretty close. Easy to spot SL because of the bowl record. But I'd probably go #3, #2, #4, #1.

My logic is because the other two only played in two bowl games so they must have had a losing season in there too. Because this takes into consideration his first year when he inherited a 1 win team, I'd like to see this same break down using only 2+ seasons. The previous two plus this one.

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