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Wag Tag

Portland St worth it?

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This loss to Port St was a turning point for the football program. The loss was humiliating, but the immediate firing of Mc and eating the balance of his salary showed a change was coming. What if we beat PS and go 500 that year would we be enjoying today’s success? Was the loss worth it? A lot of pain for a lot of gain. GMG 

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A great question. I think the answer has to be yes, sadly. It was the only way to get the attention of the administration, BOR, and big donors. This debacle led to the end of Mac immediately, RV, and eventually, Benford. 

 

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I'd rather have saved the record-setting embarrassment and just fired McCarney at the end of the year.  It's not like we were going to win many (any?) more anyway that season to bring him back.   Smatresk was already well aware of what was happening by then.  And it's certainly not like McCarney would still be here if that loss didn't happen.  We likely would have hired Littrell that offseason regardless.

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36 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I'd rather have saved the record-setting embarrassment and just fired McCarney at the end of the year.  It's not like we were going to win many (any?) more anyway that season to bring him back.   Smatresk was already well aware of what was happening by then.  And it's certainly not like McCarney would still be here if that loss didn't happen.  We likely would have hired Littrell that offseason regardless.

I’d love to say you’d have been correct, but I can’t. I truly believe a closer loss would’ve kept Mac here and would’ve kept RV here, which would’ve caused even more catastrophe. That loss is the worst loss in modern college football history and it took that to get the monied alumni to pay his buyout. If that loss doesn’t happen, I also think RV’s fleecing of the UNT 17 would’ve continued. As it was, getting rid of the dead weight of those two made us keep Benford for yet one more colossal losing season, which was 3 more than he should’ve had.

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14 minutes ago, untjim1995 said:

I’d love to say you’d have been correct, but I can’t. I truly believe a closer loss would’ve kept Mac here and would’ve kept RV here, which would’ve caused even more catastrophe. That loss is the worst loss in modern college football history and it took that to get the monied alumni to pay his buyout. If that loss doesn’t happen, I also think RV’s fleecing of the UNT 17 would’ve continued. As it was, getting rid of the dead weight of those two made us keep Benford for yet one more colossal losing season, which was 3 more than he should’ve had.

I think Smatresk & the newly-appointed BOR Chairman (at the time) are smarter than that.   
That loss made it painfully obvious, but both of those guys are/were a little more ambitious & hands-on than their predecessors. 
I truly believe it would have happened regardless, and yes, unfortunately those 2 buyouts extended Benford for a year.

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Mac was undoubtedly a failure, but the hiring of him was a big step up for NT.  His salary marked a big jump in what NT paid for head coaches.

The Portland State massacre speeded up the firing of McCarney, but he would have been gone at the end of the season. 

The continuation of Benford as hc was simply a money-saving move, as NT at that time could not afford buyouts for McCarney, Benford  and RV at the same time. 

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PS may have been the catalyst for ousting RV and Mac, but I think a more important thing to look at is, when did we start upping our game from a financial/investment standpoint?

Did we (administration, students, and fans) start committing more money to this before, after, or because of the PS loss?

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17 minutes ago, greenminer said:

PS may have been the catalyst for ousting RV and Mac, but I think a more important thing to look at is, when did we start upping our game from a financial/investment standpoint?

Did we (administration, students, and fans) start committing more money to this before, after, or because of the PS loss?

Because...that is the correct answer. You build this great facility, start paying decent coaching salaries, and then see an epic disaster occur on Homecoming when your AD schedules the only OOC home game against a team from the Pacific NW that is FCS and watch said team prison rape us in front of the biggest crowd of the season while the team acts like they don’t care.  

Thats all it took...

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"The UNT 17."  A fabled group of 17 big money donors that obviously were smart enough to make a lot of money professionally yet were dumb enough to be "fleeced by RV."  I would love to see a list of these 17.

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34 minutes ago, UNTLifer said:

"The UNT 17."  A fabled group of 17 big money donors that obviously were smart enough to make a lot of money professionally yet were dumb enough to be "fleeced by RV."  I would love to see a list of these 17.

Ask flyonthewall—-it was his group

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5 hours ago, Wag Tag said:

This loss to Port St was a turning point for the football program. The loss was humiliating, but the immediate firing of Mc and eating the balance of his salary showed a change was coming. What if we beat PS and go 500 that year would we be enjoying today’s success? Was the loss worth it? A lot of pain for a lot of gain. GMG 

Id say yes for sure. The change not only mitigated a new coach, but it was eye opening that we needed a completely new culture. I know RV wasnt officially "shown the door", but I think there were conversations where the exit sign was pointed out...After that, everything changed. 

I know we'll always have that asterisk next to our name for that game, but meh, I dont care.   UNT has turned it around so much, that I have  HONESTLY forgotten about that game until someone brings it up.    I'm more inclined to think about other loses first...

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2 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

"The UNT 17."  A fabled group of 17 big money donors that obviously were smart enough to make a lot of money professionally yet were dumb enough to be "fleeced by RV."  I would love to see a list of these 17.

UNTLifer, let it go.  Just let.....it.....go.

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3 hours ago, UNTLifer said:

"The UNT 17."  A fabled group of 17 big money donors that obviously were smart enough to make a lot of money professionally yet were dumb enough to be "fleeced by RV."  I would love to see a list of these 17.

Most are the same folks still giving a ton of money today.

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8 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Because...that is the correct answer. You build this great facility, start paying decent coaching salaries, and then see an epic disaster occur on Homecoming when your AD schedules the only OOC home game against a team from the Pacific NW that is FCS and watch said team prison rape us in front of the biggest crowd of the season while the team acts like they don’t care.  

Thats all it took...

I would suggest it was a turning point, but not the turning point.

With the funding in place, we would be fine.  For the same reasons Wren was not worried when KSU came sniffing around: we are bigger than any individual coach.  Bigger than Mac (of course), but also bigger than SL.

Wren is about as good as you can get (except for the Benford decision), but I find it hard to believe he's the only AD that can run a successful program in Denton.

After some thought, I think answering the original post is contingent on how highly you think of SL + Wren (and everything that comes with them).  This is a golden era of NT athletics, so do you think it happens with them specifically and no other possible coaches/ADs?

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No.

1- Mac was fired before the game ever took place.

2- Lost about half of my tailgating crew after that debacle.  They still haven't come back.

 

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On 4/16/2019 at 12:23 PM, UNTLifer said:

"The UNT 17."  A fabled group of 17 big money donors that obviously were smart enough to make a lot of money professionally yet were dumb enough to be "fleeced by RV."  I would love to see a list of these 17.

Probably pretty easy to find. They likely, still, give the most money after RV was fired.

Those fools...

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On 4/16/2019 at 12:23 PM, UNTLifer said:

"The UNT 17."  A fabled group of 17 big money donors that obviously were smart enough to make a lot of money professionally yet were dumb enough to be "fleeced by RV."  I would love to see a list of these 17.

You don’t know? You must not be one of them! 

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On 4/17/2019 at 11:56 AM, TIgreen01 said:

No.

1- Mac was fired before the game ever took place.

2- Lost about half of my tailgating crew after that debacle.  They still haven't come back.

 

Please show that part of the crew this..

 

image.png.2247d7e0d1127759a01e1461ed7ce93e.png

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