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untjim1995

P5s bully the Las Vegas BOwl away from MWC

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And people wonder why it will just be a better day when these semipro leagues split off and actually allow those of us that play real college amateur sports to earn a chance to win a national championship...

 

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/05/report-sec-big-ten-to-kick-mountain-west-out-of-las-vegas-bowl-among-other-2020-postseason-changes/

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"Myrtle Beach Bowl: Newly-created ESPN-owned game will rotate between Conference USA, MAC and Sun Belt."

Talk about the crumbs!

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1 hour ago, untjim1995 said:

And people wonder why it will just be a better day when these semipro leagues split off and actually allow those of us that play real college amateur sports to earn a chance to win a national championship...

 

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/05/report-sec-big-ten-to-kick-mountain-west-out-of-las-vegas-bowl-among-other-2020-postseason-changes/

There's a new bowl in LA between the Pac 12 and MWC.  I'll take LA over Vegas any day. 

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31 minutes ago, meanrob said:

There's a new bowl in LA between the Pac 12 and MWC.  I'll take LA over Vegas any day. 

to each his own man...for me, vegas is infinitely better

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11 minutes ago, THOR said:

to each his own man...for me, vegas is infinitely better

True. For me, Vegas twenty five years ago is better than today's Vegas. 

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3 hours ago, meanrob said:

True. For me, Vegas twenty five years ago is better than today's Vegas. 

So true and dont disagree about today's vegas... but la sucks!

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16 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

And people wonder why it will just be a better day when these semipro leagues split off and actually allow those of us that play real college amateur sports to earn a chance to win a national championship...

 

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/05/report-sec-big-ten-to-kick-mountain-west-out-of-las-vegas-bowl-among-other-2020-postseason-changes/

You can already do that. Its called dropping down to FCS.

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1 hour ago, CK2 said:

You can already do that. Its called dropping down to FCS.

The FBS still wouldn’t be playing for an NCAA title.

 

still weird to me that you play for someone else’s title, then hope the NCAA recognizes it too.

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We are thinking that these scandals only exist at the P5 level but a quick Google will tell you that athletic programs at every level, including G5, FCS, and even D III are bending the rules.  

 

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4 hours ago, letsgiveacheer said:

We are thinking that these scandals only exist at the P5 level but a quick Google will tell you that athletic programs at every level, including G5, FCS, and even D III are bending the rules.  

 

The level that it's happening in the P5 - particularly the SEC - is vastly different than the rest of the landscape.

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14 hours ago, CK2 said:

You can already do that. Its called dropping down to FCS.

Y’all will be with us, guaranteed. Tillman couldn’t buy y’all into the Big XII and nobody else wants you. 

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5 hours ago, untjim1995 said:

Y’all will be with us, guaranteed. Tillman couldn’t buy y’all into the Big XII and nobody else wants you. 

We most certainly will not be with you clowns. The new AAC tv deal alone will prove that.

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6 hours ago, CK2 said:

We most certainly will not be with you clowns. The new AAC tv deal alone will prove that.

Yet, here you are...and here you stay

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I will break character once to weigh in:

P5 does not care what we do.  They own almost all the marbles, and have no (pecuniary) interest in sharing.  The only "mid-major" brave enough to sue - the University of Utah - was invited into the Pac-12 over more traditionally successful rival BYU AND giant slayer/BCS-buster Boise State. 

Why do we keep sucking up to them?  The die was cast decades ago in the mid-80s to mid-90s.  To recap:

-OU and Georgia sued the NCAA for television rights and won in 1984.
-Notre Dame jumped in with their own contract.
-Conferences began making contracts with cable carriers, outlets, and networks.
-Meanwhile, we were sucking hind tit in Divison I-AA.
-We jumped through NCAA's mid-90s hoop of "30,000 seat stadium" to get back to I-A status.  It did nothing.
-We wandered through conferences after getting back to I-A status.
-By then, however, the now-P5s/then I-As had already taken control of post season through the Bowl Coalition, then the BCS.
-After we joined the C-USA, the players in the league split into their own conference.
-We argue about all of this for no reason:  we simply had poor leadership from the mid-70s to the mid-90s.
-There is no way to catch up, short of $100 million in donations per year. 
-Boise State wins and wins and wins.  They beat P5s, win bowls, put players in the NFL.  Has it gotten them a P5 invite?  No.

Many will continue to say we shouldn't splinter off.  I agree with some of their arguments, and disagree with others.  However, whether me, you, or anyone else agrees or disagrees makes no difference - the P5s still call the dance.

-I am not in favor of being in a conference stretched from here to Florida or here to the mountain time zone. 
-I am not in favor of wasting another minute or dollar pretending that being a P5 is a realistic goal.
-I am in favor of approaching regional schools and putting together a geographically sensible conference of 10 to 12 teams.
-I am in favor of the G5s having their own organization, own recruiting rules,  own bowls AND a playoff, naming their own champion.

Here is the major change I'd make if the G5s pull their heads out:
-Take partial qualifiers as was done in the old days of Prop 48; a year in classroom and the weight room, allowed to practice, but not play.
-Six years of eligibility, covering undergrad and grad school; undergrad degree must be gained in five years or eligibility is lost.
-Players who complete undergrad and grad school before six years' time are free to continue to play - but, on their own dime - until sixth year is exhausted.
-Players free to transfer without hindrance or loss of eligibility if the head coach at the time of their recruiting/signing leaves.

Am I crazy?  Yes.  But, the simple truth is, football players have no minor league system the way baseball and hockey do.  There is no D-League equivalent or leaving to play in Europe, Asia, or elsewhere like soccer and basketball players can do.  They can't turn pro in their teens like tennis players, etc.

Get real about what has happened and where was are.  G5s either take control, or quit complaining when P5 do what they do - continue to assert their long time control.

Edited by ihopehe
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10 hours ago, CK2 said:

We most certainly will not be with you clowns. The new AAC tv deal alone will prove that.

Always happy to have you hanging with us!

 

381d39bbbbc74f7767f30da4eec90234--bozo-t

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And won’t it be great when the Big Ten doesn’t have enough teams to qualify leaving their slot empty. 

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On 3/10/2019 at 1:28 PM, ihopehe said:

I will break character once to weigh in:

P5 does not care what we do.  They own almost all the marbles, and have no (pecuniary) interest in sharing.  The only "mid-major" brave enough to sue - the University of Utah - was invited into the Pac-12 over more traditionally successful rival BYU AND giant slayer/BCS-buster Boise State. 

Why do we keep sucking up to them?  The die was cast decades ago in the mid-80s to mid-90s.  To recap:

-OU and Georgia sued the NCAA for television rights and won in 1984.
-Notre Dame jumped in with their own contract.
-Conferences began making contracts with cable carriers, outlets, and networks.
-Meanwhile, we were sucking hind tit in Divison I-AA.
-We jumped through NCAA's mid-90s hoop of "30,000 seat stadium" to get back to I-A status.  It did nothing.
-We wandered through conferences after getting back to I-A status.
-By then, however, the now-P5s/then I-As had already taken control of post season through the Bowl Coalition, then the BCS.
-After we joined the C-USA, the players in the league split into their own conference.
-We argue about all of this for no reason:  we simply had poor leadership from the mid-70s to the mid-90s.
-There is no way to catch up, short of $100 million in donations per year. 
-Boise State wins and wins and wins.  They beat P5s, win bowls, put players in the NFL.  Has it gotten them a P5 invite?  No.

Many will continue to say we shouldn't splinter off.  I agree with some of their arguments, and disagree with others.  However, whether me, you, or anyone else agrees or disagrees makes no difference - the P5s still call the dance.

-I am not in favor of being in a conference stretched from here to Florida or here to the mountain time zone. 
-I am not in favor of wasting another minute or dollar pretending that being a P5 is a realistic goal.
-I am in favor of approaching regional schools and putting together a geographically sensible conference of 10 to 12 teams.
-I am in favor of the G5s having their own organization, own recruiting rules,  own bowls AND a playoff, naming their own champion.

Here is the major change I'd make if the G5s pull their heads out:
-Take partial qualifiers as was done in the old days of Prop 48; a year in classroom and the weight room, allowed to practice, but not play.
-Six years of eligibility, covering undergrad and grad school; undergrad degree must be gained in five years or eligibility is lost.
-Players who complete undergrad and grad school before six years' time are free to continue to play - but, on their own dime - until sixth year is exhausted.
-Players free to transfer without hindrance or loss of eligibility if the head coach at the time of their recruiting/signing leaves.

Am I crazy?  Yes.  But, the simple truth is, football players have no minor league system the way baseball and hockey do.  There is no D-League equivalent or leaving to play in Europe, Asia, or elsewhere like soccer and basketball players can do.  They can't turn pro in their teens like tennis players, etc.

Get real about what has happened and where was are.  G5s either take control, or quit complaining when P5 do what they do - continue to assert their long time control.

I really couldn’t possibly say this better...bravo, sir.

No matter how badly people here want us to think we should be competing with the Tech’s and OSU’s of the world, their advantage is light years ahead of us...and they are light years behind Texas and OU.

End this charade and let us just get the chance to crown a true national champion for our level of play. The players, coaches, and fans of G5’s totally deserve that chance and the P5 schools and media have proven they will never allow this to happen (see Boise State). Fighting this will only cost you more money you don’t have and get defeated in every legislature across the land that is controlled by the $$$ of these schools.

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Again, dropping down in classification would be a death knell for NT.   Am I the only one old enough to remember the Southland conference days?

Is the playing field in D1 football slanted in direction of about the 30 or 40 mega programs?  That answer is obvious to anyone.  

There are about 100 athletic programs that lose a lot of money.  More than enough to control the vote to enact measures to at least curtail the athletic arms race and increase competition.  Yet, that never happens because the athletic departments substantially benefits from the status quo.  

I do agree with most everything above except the change in classification.  

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44 minutes ago, GrandGreen said:

 

Again, dropping down in classification would be a death knell for NT.   Am I the only one old enough to remember the Southland conference days?

Is the playing field in D1 football slanted in direction of about the 30 or 40 mega programs?  That answer is obvious to anyone.  

There are about 100 athletic programs that lose a lot of money.  More than enough to control the vote to enact measures to at least curtail the athletic arms race and increase competition.  Yet, that never happens because the athletic departments substantially benefits from the status quo.  

I do agree with most everything above except the change in classification.  

No...there are many of us still here.  And your exactly right.  Dropping down would be a disaster. Thankfully that is never going to happen again.

 

Rick

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20 hours ago, FirefightnRick said:

No...there are many of us still here.  And your exactly right.  Dropping down would be a disaster. Thankfully that is never going to happen again.

 

Rick

We will never drop again by our own decision. But the schism will happen. There’s nothing that can be done about it. Look, Boise State, UCF, and UH have done a ton to offer solid choices to P5 conferences...and have gotten exactly zilch. You cannot have a equal level of one team gets $30-$50 million from TV money and others can’t get a million. It’s not even feasible.

The P5s are going to become a P4 within 5 years when the Big 12 GOR dissolves. They have three sure pieces that someone wants—Texas, OU, and KU. OSU, Tech, KSU and WVU might find a place. ISU, Baylor, and TCU are coming back down...that’s the new reality we all face in the G5.

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I didn't say, "drop down."

But, what are we?  We are not "P5," who controls the dollars, legislation, and direction of the future.  For all intents and purposes, we are the child that was born 10-15 years after the older siblings because mom and dad rekindled their love for one another once they finally got to take a vacation away from the kids.

Now, we are just the little kid in the back seat being dragged around wherever everyone older than us, parents (NCAA) and siblings (P5s), wants to go. 

They might buy us a candy bar every now and again at the grocery store if we cry long and loud enough.  But, generally, we are ignored and expected just to be quiet and be happy just to be in the family.

Forming our own organization/"NCAA" with other G5s would not be "dropping down."  It would be simply saying, 'No more following and waiting around.  We've got it from here.'

The NFLPA's eligibility rule is three years out of high school.  Fine.  We can still have players in the draft.  Nothing is effected. 

Nothing we have done, or anyone else has done - short of lawsuit (Utah), and doggedly massive fundraising for over a decade and a half (TCU) - has magically transported them into the good graces of the P5s.

We need to offer something different to the student athletes and public.  We need to recognize the realities of the new workforce for the student athletes - an undergraduate degree alone is not what is used to be for many fields of study.  And, they public isn't buying ticket to - or, watching - the Boca Raton Bowl, the Frisco Bowl, the Bahama Bowl, the New Mexico bowl, etc. 

FCS playoff games are sold out because they are played in home stadiums.  Plus, the championship game is always sold out in Frisco.  We'd be a step above that.

Afterward, if the NCAA then wants to pit their champion against ours, like the old AFL versus NFL "Super Bowl"...fine.  

The long and short of it is, to me:  quit complaining about the P5s "stealing" from us when we never really had control of what they are "stealing" in the first place. 

It is time for the G5s - past time for the G5s - to assert themselves.  Otherwise, just sit in the backseat, shut up, and do as we're told - as we've done for years.

Go big or GTFO!

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5 hours ago, ihopehe said:


FCS playoff games are sold out because they are played in home stadiums.  Plus, the championship game is always sold out in Frisco.  We'd be a step above that.
 

No one would view it that way.  A lot of people call FCS, Division II.  They don't know the difference between NDSU and Midwestern St.  You have to at least give some kind of  impression that you're playing with the big boys for as long as that's possible.

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On 3/9/2019 at 7:53 AM, CK2 said:

You can already do that. Its called dropping down to FCS.

 

On 3/10/2019 at 4:13 AM, CK2 said:

We most certainly will not be with you clowns. The new AAC tv deal alone will prove that.

lol. Look at this guy.

Has anyone told him?

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