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DRC (updated): Jalen Guyton leaving UNT to declare for NFL draft

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The only difference between Guyton and Bussey in 2018 was 14 receptions. 

The only difference between Guyton and Lawrence in 2017 was 13 receptions

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21 minutes ago, Aldo said:

The only difference between Guyton and Bussey in 2018 was 14 receptions. 

The only difference between Guyton and Lawrence in 2017 was 13 receptions

Bussey got fewer reps at the end of the season because of his hammy.  And Guyton had plenty of opportunities for more receptions, but dropped way too many well placed balls.  He's not that good and his lack of work ethic will be evident when he gets a UDFA contract somewhere and is never heard from again.  Physically he has the tools to be a decent receiver in the NFL (which is what they saw when he was recruited to Notre Dame), but he doesn't have the right attitude.  Has he ever been on one of the post game interviews even after he had a good game?

With all the young talent we have at receiver and the way the air raid works, we shouldn't see any drop off with him leaving.

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Alternate story...

Nov 18, 2017 - Jaylen Guyton gets the ever-loving cr@p knocked out of him in tonight's game against Army and suffers a concussion.  The impact of this hit will (not surprisingly) cause him to experience numerous dropped passes next year, followed by announcing that he is forgoing his senior year to enter the NFL draft, thus ending his career. 

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8 minutes ago, peanuts104 said:

Bussey got fewer reps at the end of the season because of his hammy.  And Guyton had plenty of opportunities for more receptions, but dropped way too many well placed balls.  He's not that good and his lack of work ethic will be evident when he gets a UDFA contract somewhere and is never heard from again.  Physically he has the tools to be a decent receiver in the NFL (which is what they saw when he was recruited to Notre Dame), but he doesn't have the right attitude.  Has he ever been on one of the post game interviews even after he had a good game?

With all the young talent we have at receiver and the way the air raid works, we shouldn't see any drop off with him leaving.

Oh dang!   I thought you were joking above (I gave you the 'haha').   
Do you know him personally?  If no, how can you say anything about his attitude or work ethic?   This opinion reeks of sour grapes.

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9 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

Oh dang!   I thought you were joking above (I gave you the 'haha').   
Do you know him personally?  If no, how can you say anything about his attitude or work ethic?   This opinion reeks of sour grapes.

Nope, not joking.  And you're right, I don't know him personally, but you can tell with his performance on the field, or lack there of and his body language, especially his body language after dropping a pass that hits him in the numbers.  Physically, he's got a lot of tools, but they are underutilized by the operator.  And I would bet money that's why he didn't stay and duke it out at Notre Dame.

If he gets drafted, great, it's a win for him and it helps the program.  I don't have anything personal against him other than the fact that he had a tendency to drop well placed balls at critical times.

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Best of luck Mr Guyton. We appreciate your part in our turnaround at North Texas. May you forever be Mean Green.

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You wanna know what really rubs me the wrong way about this whole thing?  No?  Well too bad. A quote from the last sentence of his NFL draft announcement:

"But remember, while today it is me, we all shall depart."

No **** Sherlock.  But the point is you left early while others didn't.  I truly believe if Mason left for the draft this year, he would have a better chance than Guyton, and his "deficiency" (I don't personally consider QB height under ~5'10" a deficiency for any QB, even in the NFL, but I know NFL GMs do) is probably greater than Guyton's whoopsies arms.  And I don't blame a young man for going out and trying to get some green and I never would.  I blame him because I truly think the only reason he is doing this is because he thinks there's a real chance of him losing his job next year.  With the year he had, it makes no sense to leave for the draft.  Hate all you want, but if you compare him to Bussey, Bussey got better in the offseason and was the best receiver on the team last year.  You could make an argument that Guyton got worse in the offseason and EVEN WORSE contributed to our offensive stagnation in the second half of games with his drops.  I don't want to say that definitively because I would need to go back and rewatch the games to see how much of an impact the drops had at critical moments, but based on memory, his drops hurt us quite a bit.

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33 minutes ago, VideoEagle said:

Did I miss something, didn't he graduate in December? The purpose of college is learn and earn a degree. He did so early while playing football - something that is NOT easy. It calls for a lot of long nights after practice studying. I'm guessing since he has no plans for a Masters, he really has no reason to take a number of graduate courses just to play football. Leaving school after you graduate isn't leaving early.

Exactly this.

I imagine @peanuts104 didn’t hang around UNT after his graduation taking classes that he didn’t want or need simply because it was better for the university either.

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I'm happy for guyton, i think he would have benefited from coming back but i'll be hoping his name gets called at the end of April.

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7 hours ago, peanuts104 said:

Hate all you want.  I'll be right when our receiving corps does better next season.

I don't know if anyone is "hating", rather, disgusted with your tearing down an alumnus.

Will you be wrong if he's on an NFL roster next season?
As for your claim, I suppose the proof will be in the pudding.    Let's see if White/Ogunmakin/Shorter/<whoever wins his vacated Z spot>  can eclipse 54 catches for 800+yds & 6 TDs.  The bar is clearly set.

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6 minutes ago, MeanGreenTexan said:

I don't know if anyone is "hating", rather, disgusted with your tearing down an alumnus.

Will you be wrong if he's on an NFL roster next season?
As for your claim, I suppose the proof will be in the pudding.    Let's see if White/Ogunmakin/Shorter/<whoever wins his vacated Z spot>  can eclipse 54 catches for 800+yds & 6 TDs.  The bar is clearly set.

Not to mention that objectively, he’s been one of the key cogs to a massive program turnaround. We should all be thankful for his contributions and wish him success at the next level.

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He was a very good player for us no doubt.  I dont know why he dropped so many easy passes this year.  I guess if it gets in your brain and to try to hard that is what happens.  He did make some great catches that I doubt most receivers would back.  It was an odd year for him.  Good Luck in the draft and I hope you are playing on Sundays.

CUSA has lost a lot of good players this year declaring for the draft.  Interesting to see who gets drafted and not go the way unsigned free agent route.

Anyone know what Zach Orr is doing these days?  

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18 hours ago, Aldo said:

Guyton year 1 to year 2

Year Rec. Yards Avg. TD Rec./G Yards/G
2017 49 775 15.82 9 3.8 59.6
2018 54 805 14.91 6 4.2 61.9

 

Drops was an issue in 2018 but dang y'all are crazy. He was good for us and has skill that commanded opposing defensive coordinators to scheme him out of games.

He graduated and was ready to move on.

I hope he signs with a good agent and trainer because being 14th best in the C-USA for receptions and 10th best in yards is probably not going to open many NFL eyes without being able something else to the table.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/conferences/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receptions/id/12
http://www.espn.com/college-football/conferences/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards/id/12

He never led the C-USA in either, and wasn't ever close to leading the C-USA in either.  And, he didn't ever lead North Texas in either category.

Mix in the total NCAA, and he's 100th in receptions: http://www.espn.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receptions/qualified/false/count/81

And, 80th in yards:  http://www.espn.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards/qualified/false/count/41

Also, tied for 100th in TD receptions:  http://www.espn.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingTouchdowns/qualified/false/count/81

What people are trying to say here, friends, is that he was not exactly an elite receiver at the collegiate level.  Many of the top WRs in each draft don't even make it. 

So, again, what else does he bring to the table for an NFL team?  Comb through the UNT stats for 2018:
-He didn't carry the ball even one time, so they weren't using him for jet sweeps or reverses or gadget plays.
-He fielded no punts or kickoff returns.
-He didn't register any tackles on special teams.

(In 2017, he ran three times for 12 yards.  But, again, did not field punts or return kicks, and had no tackles on special teams.) 

Therefore, it's natural for people who have watched him over two years to wonder why he's leaving early.  He didn't dominate game after game after game; he occasionally dominated C-USA level competition.

He had a 100 yard game against Incarnate Word, a recently formed FCS school.  He had another again USM.  He had one against Utah State in the bowl game for 103 yards...75 of which came on one play when we were already behind 38-7.

He never registered double digit catch games in 2018, and had only two games with more than 5 receptions - 7 against SMU and 7 against USM:  http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/3932430/type/college/year/2018

In 2017, about the same, two 100+ yards games, three with more than 5 receptions.  And, in 2017, the one game of his career with 10 or more receptions:  http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/3932430/type/college/year/2017

Two seasons, five 100+ yard games, one 10+ catch game.  That's not exactly dominating the opponents week in and week out. 

He wasn't a special teams wizard.  He didn't possess such unique speed or elusiveness that they created running plays for him just to "find ways to get the ball in his hands," as coaches say of playmakers.  He wasn't trusted to field punts or return kicks.

In short, what exactly are NFL teams supposed to see?  NFL teams only have 53 roster spots, and half a dozen or so "scout" team players.  They don't have 85 scholarships players, plus 20 or 30 walk-ons.  If you are not a high round draft pick, you've got to be able to contribute something else somewhere.  For low round or undrafted skill players, that's normally contributing on special teams.

We all wish him well, of course.  But, we all also believe another year of college football would likely serve him better than declaring for the draft.  It just seems like a huge, huge leap based on his collegiate body of work.

In reality, having graduated, it seems like it would make more sense for him to enroll at a bigger football school up the chain for a graduate year to see whether or not he could compete there. 

Or, it would have also made sense if he had simply stayed here and attempted to branch out into contributing on special teams in 2019...unless, of course, this coaching staff is so blind that they missed/ignored his special teams ability?  Is that possible?

For every undrafted story like Jamize Olawale there are thousands of guys who do not make it.  And, Jamize didn't declare early.

I hope he isn't getting bad advice...as many, many players do.  His overall record reflects a pretty middle of the road career against lower competition levels.

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19 hours ago, peanuts104 said:

Good.  I think he was scared of the competition from our younger receivers and knew he wasn't going to be the starter next year.

We can hope that is the reason but it will hard to replace Guyton.  He took pressure off Bussey.  If our OL is better next season I think we will be ok.  We lost all three at that position and I hope someone is ready to step up.

 

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Goodness @peanuts104 and @ihopehe I never said he was elite and those are some bad takes. I didn't realize my comments about him being good for us and commanding defensive attention would be taken so.

He's good enough to be on an NFL roster that's for sure, and in CUSA he was specifically targeted by opposing defenses, creating many 1-on-1 opportunities for Bussey, and opening room behind the LBs for Darden.

He's got the skill to be on an NFL roster.

And yes he was on sweeps both seasons. It's a forward pass play so it wouldn't register on a stat sheet as a run.

He doesn't field returns because that would throw up a red flag. You have specific players for that - specifically not your outside receivers. Not unless everyone else either sucks or is hurt, which did become an issue this season. You don't want to see Bussey or Guyton handling those midseason.

In terms of production, sure we may see similar numbers from other guys, but Guyton was dynamic and made mental mistakes. Bussey had the same issue in 2017: injury, mental mistakes (drops), and good production.

On tape Guyton has the ability, not sure what else to say.

 

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7 minutes ago, Aldo said:

Goodness @peanuts104 and @ihopehe I never said he was elite and those are some bad takes. I didn't realize my comments about him being good for us and commanding defensive attention would be taken so.

He's good enough to be on an NFL roster that's for sure, and in CUSA he was specifically targeted by opposing defenses, creating many 1-on-1 opportunities for Bussey, and opening room behind the LBs for Darden.

He's got the skill to be on an NFL roster.

And yes he was on sweeps both seasons. It's a forward pass play so it wouldn't register on a stat sheet as a run.

He doesn't field returns because that would throw up a red flag. You have specific players for that - specifically not your outside receivers. Not unless everyone else either sucks or is hurt, which did become an issue this season. You don't want to see Bussey or Guyton handling those midseason.

In terms of production, sure we may see similar numbers from other guys, but Guyton was dynamic and made mental mistakes. Bussey had the same issue in 2017: injury, mental mistakes (drops), and good production.

On tape Guyton has the ability, not sure what else to say.

 

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All that being said, I am excited for Greg White (he quick) if he can stay healthy, but also want to see what Jyaire Shorter's (he fast) got.

Other dudes to keep an ear out on: Signee I liked last year was Austin Ogunmakin (he big) and this year definitely definitely Deonte Simpson (he nasty). I'm curious about Khatib Lyles (he good). 

But only Simpson and maybe Shorter and bigger maybe Lyles, though, seem the best replacement for Guyton, which isn't necessarily a great sign (freshmen).

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1 hour ago, Aldo said:

Goodness @peanuts104 and @ihopehe I never said he was elite and those are some bad takes. I didn't realize my comments about him being good for us and commanding defensive attention would be taken so.

He's good enough to be on an NFL roster that's for sure, and in CUSA he was specifically targeted by opposing defenses, creating many 1-on-1 opportunities for Bussey, and opening room behind the LBs for Darden.

He's got the skill to be on an NFL roster.

And yes he was on sweeps both seasons. It's a forward pass play so it wouldn't register on a stat sheet as a run.

He doesn't field returns because that would throw up a red flag. You have specific players for that - specifically not your outside receivers. Not unless everyone else either sucks or is hurt, which did become an issue this season. You don't want to see Bussey or Guyton handling those midseason.

In terms of production, sure we may see similar numbers from other guys, but Guyton was dynamic and made mental mistakes. Bussey had the same issue in 2017: injury, mental mistakes (drops), and good production.

On tape Guyton has the ability, not sure what else to say.

 

I went overboard in my negative assessment without addressing the positives he has brought to the team.  I was mostly trying to defend my original post.  I think we have some solid younger guys (like Shorter) that I think he thought he might either lose his job to or he might split time with.  If he tried to declare next year with less playing time, his perceived value would go down if he was splitting time at the Z position.

Sometimes I go overboard, and I apologize for that.

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